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Russell Wilson VS Colin Kaepernick

Originally posted by hawker84:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
I thought the read option was the perfect example of juking/faking out defenders. You point them in one direction then you take it another and leave the defender gasping for air. And when you try to diminish the rushing prowess of one QB that was the only in NCAA history to pass > 10000 yds and rush > 4000 yds then set an NFL rushing record for QBs at 181 yards in a PLAYOFF GAME, well then I think we are fishing for something here don't you think. Russ is more of a QB in a RB body that can perform most of the duties of both positions so I can see where he could be more elusive but that is not to say he is better at toting the pill when both game film and the statistics say otherwise. As for the injury issue, I can say that I hope both guys stay healthy and that Russ's MJD - like stature may indeed help him, but I think Colin will be alright being that he is coached by the QB guru Harbaugh and has an outstanding cast around him and he instinctively slides and gets out of bounds well enough already. BTW, during the game at the Superdome vs Saints, I thought Colin faked out 3 to 4 defenders rather nicely on a rushing TD from the redzone
didn't see the saints game, got any links to it so i can see him juking out 3 - 4 defenders.. and please read my posts before you comment... for the 10th time.. just because i said he can't juke or elude defenders as well as RW doesn't mean i don't think the man can run... anybody with speed can gain yrds rushing if you have open space in front of you... my point is , he's not making a lot of people miss to pick up all those yrds you mentioned.. if i'm wrong, post a vid , show me.. i posted my vid proving my point, do the same....

What's Your Deal?? U Mad Bro?? or better yet, Did You Read My Post?? It seems you incorrectly assumed I was taking a shot at you. Peep this, I did not single out any of yours nor any other's posts for direct criticism thus the reason I didn't quote you. I was responding to a number of posts, some made by you and some made by 49er fans. I wasn't commenting to agitate nor to offend, I was simply stating my point of view on topics concerning this thread's title. I believe my generalized sentiment was that we may be fishing over insignificant things and might be overlooking the big picture which is that in the case of these 2 QBs they seem to be able to do significant and near unprecedented damage with both their feet and their arms.

They obviously get the job done differently and a lot of this is due to their respective physical makeup. I alluded to the fact that Wilson is built like a shifty, stocky, powerful RB and Kaep is more like a Calvin Johnson so yes in the open field you expect to see a little more Barry Sanders in Wilson than you would in Kaep but I don't think we can say he is more feared as a mobile QB than Kaep when it comes to hurting defenses on the ground. I was not disputing whether Wilson is elusive but simply that Kaep is a beast in his own right, he just gets the job done just as effectively if not moreso but in a different manner.

But like I said I didn't quote you specifically until now and as for posting the video, I was on my mobile phone and didn't have the time but I assume a lot of 49er fans saw the game anyway and the TD I am referring to is on NFL.com and it may not be much to some but to me I thought Kaep used his blocks and set up the defenders rather adequately to get his nose into the end zone as is customary for him throughout his career. No matter how it looks, he simply gets the job done as a dual threat QB and I believe it is rather difficult to diminish this fact. Wilson, I might add is doing a bang up job as well.

Last I checked you weren't a mod and as a poster I don't have to respond to you and only you in this thread (its Russ vs Kaep not Hawker84 vs Pillbusta) and I can post a video by my own choosing if I deem necessary and you don't have to respond to my posts nor read them if you don't like them. And after your outburst towards me asking me did I read your posts when I did not quote your post but rather stated my random thoughts and opinion, I am not sure whether I can respect your posts as you so eloquently told Marvin49.

Oh well, here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iMLA1_q2xw. The play of reference is at 0:25. You may say this is weak, but there were 4 defenders involved and they got owned and it didn't look like Barry but Kaep found pay dirt. This is a regular occurance for him throughout his career. Calm down dude, I realize some on here might be purposefully trying to incite you or bait you, but that ain't my game. I simply say my piece and you say yours, then we can agree or disagree. The thread rolls on
[ Edited by Pillbusta on Mar 26, 2013 at 6:01 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Intelligence is another area that Wilson is good in. He generally makes good decisions and has scored decently in aptitude tests. However, again, Kaep is noticeably better. He's a more intelligent guy, and that's not taking anything away from Wilson, but Kaep's mental ability is on the level of Luck, which I think most people consider to set the bar for young QBs.

I really can't see how Kaep has more intelligence than Wilson. If you've heard him speak, he's one of the most affluent players I've ever heard, in any sport. I'd say, If Kaep can match Wilson, then we're good.

Kaep is better at:
Speed, Arm Strength, Size, Running for yardage

Wilson and Kaep are essentially equal at:
Accuracy, Intelligence, Mental Toughness, Durability

Wilson is better at:
Escapability, Extending Plays

Good list and great comparison but the one quality that is missing from your list is Leadership/Clutch-ness.

At this point in their very young careers I'd give the nod to Wilson.

His ability to step into a new football situation and take command of a team is impressive.

And by extension with all the rest of the tools that both QBs have, that equates to 4th quarter comebacks and game-winning drives.

Wilson had 4 and 5, respectively, last year. And his 4th comebacks and game-winning drives against the Lions and the Falcons (playoffs) were nullified by Seattle's D's inability to hold the lead with only seconds left on the game clock.

Admittedly, Kaep did not have the same number of opportunities for clutch game-winning drives in the 4th quarter that Wilson did last year... so the jury's still out on that attribute for Kaep. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Think Montana. Besides his set of QB tools, what made him great?

It was his ability to come back late in the game and continue the fight...all the way to the end.

Btw, Joe had 31 4th quarter comebacks and 33 game-winning drives in his illustrious career. Wilson may pass him in less than 8 years at the rate he's going.

Source of data quoted above
[ Edited by onanygivensunday49 on Mar 27, 2013 at 5:50 AM ]
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
What's Your Deal?? U Mad Bro?? or better yet, Did You Read My Post?? It seems you incorrectly assumed I was taking a shot at you. Peep this, I did not single out any of yours nor any other's posts for direct criticism thus the reason I didn't quote you. I was responding to a number of posts, some made by you and some made by 49er fans. I wasn't commenting to agitate nor to offend, I was simply stating my point of view on topics concerning this thread's title. I believe my generalized sentiment was that we may be fishing over insignificant things and might be overlooking the big picture which is that in the case of these 2 QBs they seem to be able to do significant and near unprecedented damage with both their feet and their arms.

They obviously get the job done differently and a lot of this is due to their respective physical makeup. I alluded to the fact that Wilson is built like a shifty, stocky, powerful RB and Kaep is more like a Calvin Johnson so yes in the open field you expect to see a little more Barry Sanders in Wilson than you would in Kaep but I don't think we can say he is more feared as a mobile QB than Kaep when it comes to hurting defenses on the ground. I was not disputing whether Wilson is elusive but simply that Kaep is a beast in his own right, he just gets the job done just as effectively if not moreso but in a different manner.

But like I said I didn't quote you specifically until now and as for posting the video, I was on my mobile phone and didn't have the time but I assume a lot of 49er fans saw the game anyway and the TD I am referring to is on NFL.com and it may not be much to some but to me I thought Kaep used his blocks and set up the defenders rather adequately to get his nose into the end zone as is customary for him throughout his career. No matter how it looks, he simply gets the job done as a dual threat QB and I believe it is rather difficult to diminish this fact. Wilson, I might add is doing a bang up job as well.

Last I checked you weren't a mod and as a poster I don't have to respond to you and only you in this thread (its Russ vs Kaep not Hawker84 vs Pillbusta) and I can post a video by my own choosing if I deem necessary and you don't have to respond to my posts nor read them if you don't like them. And after your outburst towards me asking me did I read your posts when I did not quote your post but rather stated my random thoughts and opinion, I am not sure whether I can respect your posts as you so eloquently told Marvin49.

Oh well, here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iMLA1_q2xw. The play of reference is at 0:25. You may say this is weak, but there were 4 defenders involved and they got owned and it didn't look like Barry but Kaep found pay dirt. This is a regular occurance for him throughout his career. Calm down dude, I realize some on here might be purposefully trying to incite you or bait you, but that ain't my game. I simply say my piece and you say yours, then we can agree or disagree. The thread rolls on

LOL, what are you even talking about... you lost me after "Peeps this" but thanks for the vid, great run, way to see the hole and use your blockers... yes he does that well.
I'm not sure why people seem to believe Wilson is more intelligent than Kaepernick. Kaepernick was a 4.0 GPA student and scored a 37 on the Wonderlic. Wilson was a 2.85 GPA student and scored a 27 on the Wonderlic. Maybe it's the tattoos.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
I'm not sure why people seem to believe Wilson is more intelligent than Kaepernick. Kaepernick was a 4.0 GPA student and scored a 37 on the Wonderlic. Wilson was a 2.85 GPA student and scored a 27 on the Wonderlic. Maybe it's the tattoos.

Wilson is more media friendly, that's why. It's the same exact reason why people love Pete Carroll and hate Jim Harbaugh.

Actually ability and performance have nothing to do with it.
[ Edited by baltien on Mar 27, 2013 at 9:30 AM ]
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Originally posted by GNielsen:
I'm not sure why people seem to believe Wilson is more intelligent than Kaepernick. Kaepernick was a 4.0 GPA student and scored a 37 on the Wonderlic. Wilson was a 2.85 GPA student and scored a 27 on the Wonderlic. Maybe it's the tattoos.

Wilson majored in communications (which I believe to be a big reason he appears very intelligent to people) and improved his GPA in college. He comes across as a confident speaker with a good head on his shoulders. However, he often speaks in cliche. Kaepernick on the other hand does not come across nearly as confident in front of the cameras, pretty shy actually, and kind of has a bit of an urban drawl, however the dude is a brainiac by all accounts of those who are close to him. His numbers in GPA and Wonderlic attest to that fact. I think he's much more reserved and humble than most guys with superstardom hanging over their head and doesn't feel the need to placate to media perceptions and puff out his chest.

As to their leadership and clutchness qualities, their is no denying that Wilson has shown incredible potential in these categories at such an early stage in his career. That being said, I think Kaep has done the same. Again, the difference in the way they come off as people in the media, I think also applies to their personalities as leaders. There's no question Colin is brimming with confidence, however he doesn't wear it on his sleeve like Wilson does, which gives people the perception it doesn't exist. When Colin was asked to carry the team on his shoulders in NFCCG and the Superbowl he was cool as a cucumber, never rattled and always in control. Wilson on the other hand, is like a field general out there, a fiery competitor rousing his team with emotion. I'm not claiming for one to be better than the other as leaders or clutch players. The jury is still out and it takes time to determine these two attributes.
Good posts above from baltien and Amplee. I find it an interesting dynamic - the media-friendly, communications major who always says the right things on the one hand. And, the new-look, flat-brimmed cap, sort of "homeboy" thing along with a humble, almost soft-spoken small-town nature on the other. To me, Kaepernick is one of the most interesting athletes I've seen arriving on the scene in a very long time. It seems easy for NFL fans who haven't been paying attention as much as we Niner fans have to underestimate him which makes the prospects for him breaking out and burning up the league even more exciting to me.
Originally posted by onanygivensunday49:
Good list and great comparison but the one quality that is missing from your list is Leadership/Clutch-ness.

At this point in their very young careers I'd give the nod to Wilson.

His ability to step into a new football situation and take command of a team is impressive.

And by extension with all the rest of the tools that both QBs have, that equates to 4th quarter comebacks and game-winning drives.

Wilson had 4 and 5, respectively, last year. And his 4th comebacks and game-winning drives against the Lions and the Falcons (playoffs) were nullified by Seattle's D's inability to hold the lead with only seconds left on the game clock.

Admittedly, Kaep did not have the same number of opportunities for clutch game-winning drives in the 4th quarter that Wilson did last year... so the jury's still out on that attribute for Kaep. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Think Montana. Besides his set of QB tools, what made him great?

It was his ability to come back late in the game and continue the fight...all the way to the end.

Btw, Joe had 31 4th quarter comebacks and 33 game-winning drives in his illustrious career. Wilson may pass him in less than 8 years at the rate he's going.

Source of data quoted above


Seriously bro, you are going to go there?

Kaep had 2 (almost 3) comebacks in last years playoffs alone.

of coarse wilson had more during the season he started more than twice as many games.

but the New England game coupled with the Playoffs showed that Kaep is more than capable of doing the same thing when it is needed.
Wilson fan: "His ability to step into a new football situation and take command of a team is impressive." The Wilson fan could have said the same thing about Kaepernick except in Kaepernick's case it's even more impressive - Kaepernick was thrown in mid-season whereas Wilson knew from August on that he was going to be the starter.

On Wilson's 5 game winning drives - Kapernick had three in half as many games.

And the kicker: Wilson may surpass Montana in...... dude, Wilson isn't going to surpass Montana in anything, ever.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Our definitions are just different.

I don't see any of those backs you are talking about anymore. Jacobs isn't even really that guy...he dances too much.

When I think of a power back, I don't think of a bull. I think of a guy who can make yards after contact. A guy who can break arm tackles. Who are guys who can do that these days? Steven Jackson. Marshawn Lynch. Adrian Peterson.

What's important to note about those guys tho is that they are by no means ONLY power runners. That is just one aspect of their game.

Frank was a power runner in that respct, particularly early on. What has given him longevity in the league and why I think he'll continue to be good here is that his #1 asset is his vision. The guy just see's things that nobody else sees. He's not as fast as he used to be nor does he break as many tackles, but he can still see the field better than anyone.

To be honest...thats gonna be my question with Marshawn. The guy is a monster right now, but I wonder if he's gonna be a guy who disappears overnight. That running style is very difficult to maintain for a long period of time.


Now...as for the Kaep/Wilson debate...

Look....obviously peeps here are gonna like Kaep and peeps in Seattle are gonna like Wilson.

BOTH are the envy of half the league right now.

This whole "elusive" thing about Kaep not making anyone miss and how he'll take more hits etc than Wilson misses the point entirely.

Does Wilson have more LATERAL quickness than Kaep? Yes. He's freakin' 5'10" so I would hope so. He's the closest thing I've ever seen to Kartenton...keeping plays alive and putting tremendous pressure on the DBs to stay with their men.

Kaep has more straight line speed. Don't quote a 40 time to me...I believe what I see on the field. He's MUCH taller and heavier than Wilson so no, he doesn't have the quickness that Wilson does....but he doesn't really need it. I'm perfectly happy seeing him sprint in a straight line 20 yards and getting out of bounds then trying to put a move on someone in the open field. He had over 170 of his 180+ yards against the Packers without getting hit.

...and that's kinda the point. He doesn't get hit. It doesn't happen. When he runs, he'll slide. He'll get out of bounds. He'll get everything he can and not risk the injury. He's smart about it.

He also doesn't get hit in the pocket too much either. Why? Not only does he get away from the rush, but the pass rush actually has to change in an attempt to "contain" him. They don't rush the same way because they fear opening up running lanes. This gives him TIME in the pocket to throw longer passes and to avoid getting hit.

Wilson is similar in this regard as teams try to corral him.

Personally, I'll take the guy whos 6' 5", has a CANNON, was the most accurate passer on balls over 20 yards last year in the NFL and can run like the wind over the guy whos 5' 10" and can scramble. Don't get me wrong, I like Wilson as much as I can like any QB in Seattle....but I'd take Kaep hands down.
Hawker84:

What Marvin said on the last line of his post is what i was trying to explain to you earlier. Wilson could be considered better right now but i would rather have Kaep based off potential which you scoffed at me for but i want you to honestly ansewr this question for me that i asked you a day or 2 ago but got no response. The question is who do you think has more potential?

Potential is based off of natural ability so take stats from last year out of it and take there names out of it:

Quaterback A: Is almost 6'5" 230lbs ish
Has possibly the strongest arm in the leauge.
is one of the most accurate QB's in the league.
Has one of the best and possibly the most accurate deep ball in the leauge
Runs in the 4.5s
Stands tall in the pocket and delivers the ball from there on 3 and 5 step drops into tight windows.
Fits balls into tight windows weather from pocket under duress or on a roll out.
can escape presure often (probably top 5 in the leauge in this)
and can throw the ball incredibly well moving to his right or left.

Player B: is 5'11" 210lbs ish
has a top 10 arm strength
is one of the most accurate passers in the leauge (short or deep)
Runs in the 4.5s
has good pocket presence but has to use windows more than most QB's due to hieght
Fits balls into tight windows weather from pocket under duress or on a roll out
is top 2 in the league in escapeing from the presure
keeps eyes downfield and delivers tough throws after escaping presure and on the run

Which QB has the more potential? They both have tons of potential that most teams in the league would jump at but if you are honest with yourself and dont put to the names of the players connected to thier different abilities I think you will agree Player A has more potential. They both have the potential to be GREAT QB's in the leauge but if you could choose based soley off potential who do you choose Player A or Player B?
On my last post i would love to hear from any seahawk fan not just Hawker84. Hawker84 was just the one who challenged me when i said Kaep has more potential.
You can discuss all day long, but right now, as of this moment, it's fair to say both of these young quarterbacks are equal.

The ONLY true discernible differences are Kaeps physical measureables.


Mentally, both of them are students of the game, hard workers, and have QB friendly coaches. One area Kaep has the advantage is his Oline and his receiving threats.

Remove the emotion and team bias - and you're fooling yourself if you'd take Wilson over Kaep knowing what you know now.
At the combine, Kaepernick had a high 40 time of 4.53 and a low of 4.43.

Wilsons high was 4.64 and his low was 4.48.

I think it's pretty remarkable that Kaepernick, at his size, can move at the same speed or better than Wilson. They're both great athletes, but Kaepernick is kind of off the scale for QB's. He's a mutant.
Russell Wilson: in reference to NinerFan84's question.
[ Edited by hawker84 on Mar 27, 2013 at 11:33 AM ]
Originally posted by Stanley:
Remove the emotion and team bias - and you're fooling yourself if you'd take Wilson over Kaep knowing what you know now.

Exactly. All else being equal, why would you prefer the guy who is 6 or 7 inches shorter and has the weaker arm? But, if you go to the Seahawks site, you will find that your average Seahawk fan believes Russell Wilson is the best QB in the league and Kaepernick is some kind of "gimmick" not worthy of consideration. Oh well. I think they're in for a rude awakening.
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