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Donte Whitner aka Hitner

We don't need to cut him but we have a huge need at SS and FS (no matter if there is another FS signing). Whitner got DESTROYED in the Super Bowl. Gave up that Pitta touchdown (I think it was Pitta) in pathetic fashion. Looked lost on a lot of plays... he is terrible in coverage.

However, he lays the wood and is strong in run support - cutting him does not benefit us if we are going to draft a SS anyway - which we must do!
[ Edited by chico49erfan on Mar 18, 2013 at 12:38 PM ]
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Cooper22:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
You need to watch them again. Bowman sometimes misses tackles. Not often, but few. Whitner sometime is there to clean up. That's what his position required him to do when he sees it. Just going off the top, Whitner blewup Pierre Thomas because Bowman missed him initially. What I'm trying to say is that Whitner is playing a SS position that offense like to take advantage of because he has responsibility in both the run and pass defense. It's the nature of his position that he will lose and win some in each and every plays, especially in the end zone, where he has very little time to read and react on run or pass. If you think he's easily replaced with a better result, you may be mistaken. The position required more than just physical ability. It's also experience and instinct.

I'm just saying I've seen whitner miss a lot more tackles than bowman

lol

Bowman is widely regarded as one of the best tacklers in the league.. I don't get your response at all.. There's a huge difference between good, efficient tackling versus big hitting.. Bowman's efficient.. Idk why I'm having this argument with you. You've probably never touched a football in your life so you wouldn't know what a good tackle looks like
Originally posted by Cooper22:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Cooper22:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
You need to watch them again. Bowman sometimes misses tackles. Not often, but few. Whitner sometime is there to clean up. That's what his position required him to do when he sees it. Just going off the top, Whitner blewup Pierre Thomas because Bowman missed him initially. What I'm trying to say is that Whitner is playing a SS position that offense like to take advantage of because he has responsibility in both the run and pass defense. It's the nature of his position that he will lose and win some in each and every plays, especially in the end zone, where he has very little time to read and react on run or pass. If you think he's easily replaced with a better result, you may be mistaken. The position required more than just physical ability. It's also experience and instinct.

I'm just saying I've seen whitner miss a lot more tackles than bowman

lol

Bowman is widely regarded as one of the best tacklers in the league.. I don't get your response at all.. There's a huge difference between good, efficient tackling versus big hitting.. Bowman's efficient.. Idk why I'm having this argument with you. You've probably never touched a football in your life so you wouldn't know what a good tackle looks like

Bowman, MISSES tackles... Are you blind?!? Patrick Willis is a better tackler. Bowman is one of the best ILB's in the league. No one is talking about big hitting. Patrick Willis is a big hitter, plus he wraps up in the most fundamental way you possibly can. You want to know what a GOOD tackle looks like? Go watch Patrick Willis all day. Bowman mirrors Pat at times. A lot of the time. But he also misses tackles. I don't know where you got it that Bowman had the reputation for being one of the best tacklers in the league lol. His reputation has been known for almost mirror imaging Patrick Willis and how fast he gets to the ball carrier and takes him down. I've heard Pat as one of the best tacklers, not specifically Bowman.

When you come out and say we should just "cut" Whitner, and how Bowman never misses tackles despite you "watching" "every" game, you lose credibility fast my friend.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Bowman, MISSES tackles... Are you blind?!? Patrick Willis is a better tackler. Bowman is one of the best ILB's in the league. No one is talking about big hitting. Patrick Willis is a big hitter, plus he wraps up in the most fundamental way you possibly can. You want to know what a GOOD tackle looks like? Go watch Patrick Willis all day. Bowman mirrors Pat at times. A lot of the time. But he also misses tackles. I don't know where you got it that Bowman had the reputation for being one of the best tacklers in the league lol. His reputation has been known for almost mirror imaging Patrick Willis and how fast he gets to the ball carrier and takes him down. I've heard Pat as one of the best tacklers, not specifically Bowman.

When you come out and say we should just "cut" Whitner, and how Bowman never misses tackles despite you "watching" "every" game, you lose credibility fast my friend.

Whitner just shoulders people.. In the Saints playoff game 2 years ago, everyone talks about his big hit on Pierre Thomas.. If the guy didn't get knocked the f*** out, it would have been a TD.. He would've just been slowed down, regained his momentum, and scored.. Whitner's big strength is supposedly his tackling, but in reality, it's wayy overrated IMO
Biggest liability in pass defense!
Originally posted by Cooper22:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Bowman, MISSES tackles... Are you blind?!? Patrick Willis is a better tackler. Bowman is one of the best ILB's in the league. No one is talking about big hitting. Patrick Willis is a big hitter, plus he wraps up in the most fundamental way you possibly can. You want to know what a GOOD tackle looks like? Go watch Patrick Willis all day. Bowman mirrors Pat at times. A lot of the time. But he also misses tackles. I don't know where you got it that Bowman had the reputation for being one of the best tacklers in the league lol. His reputation has been known for almost mirror imaging Patrick Willis and how fast he gets to the ball carrier and takes him down. I've heard Pat as one of the best tacklers, not specifically Bowman.

When you come out and say we should just "cut" Whitner, and how Bowman never misses tackles despite you "watching" "every" game, you lose credibility fast my friend.

Whitner just shoulders people.. In the Saints playoff game 2 years ago, everyone talks about his big hit on Pierre Thomas.. If the guy didn't get knocked the f*** out, it would have been a TD.. He would've just been slowed down, regained his momentum, and scored.. Whitner's big strength is supposedly his tackling, but in reality, it's wayy overrated IMO

I'm not even talking about Whitner, nor comparing the 2. But as a STRONG Safety, it's your job to play lower, and SUPPORT the run. And Whitner was pretty good with that. No question he is garbage when it comes to pass coverage.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
I'm not even talking about Whitner, nor comparing the 2. But as a STRONG Safety, it's your job to play lower, and SUPPORT the run. And Whitner was pretty good with that. No question he is garbage when it comes to pass coverage.

Yeah I agree he's a very good classic strong safety. But the NFL is changing.. Every one of the playoff teams last year had a deep passing threat.. Our NT was rarely used, and our SS was back in coverage the majority of the time.. All I'm saying is I think it would be wise to get someone with better ball skills and pass coverage ability
Originally posted by Cooper22:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
I'm not even talking about Whitner, nor comparing the 2. But as a STRONG Safety, it's your job to play lower, and SUPPORT the run. And Whitner was pretty good with that. No question he is garbage when it comes to pass coverage.

Yeah I agree he's a very good classic strong safety. But the NFL is changing.. Every one of the playoff teams last year had a deep passing threat.. Our NT was rarely used, and our SS was back in coverage the majority of the time.. All I'm saying is I think it would be wise to get someone with better ball skills and pass coverage ability

Strong Safety's aren't even known for their ball skills. Until we get some fresh rotation on our defensive front, and we get our pass rush back, Whitner won't even seem to be the issue anymore. He was only exposed because our defense got gassed and we had injuries to our best 2 pass rushers, Justin and Aldon. Coulndn't get ANY pressure the last few regular season games, or playoff games. And our secondary got torched for it.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Strong Safety's aren't even known for their ball skills. Until we get some fresh rotation on our defensive front, and we get our pass rush back, Whitner won't even seem to be the issue anymore. He was only exposed because our defense got gassed and we had injuries to our best 2 pass rushers, Justin and Aldon. Coulndn't get ANY pressure the last few regular season games, or playoff games. And our secondary got torched for it.

There are plenty of guys that can play SS who have ball skills IMO.. With the amount that the elite teams are passing, it's pretty much essential.. We all saw what happens when there's a weak link in pass coverage.. Definitely a consistent pass rush will help, but why not upgrade both and not have to rely either on a pass rush, or good pass coverage?
Originally posted by Cooper22:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Strong Safety's aren't even known for their ball skills. Until we get some fresh rotation on our defensive front, and we get our pass rush back, Whitner won't even seem to be the issue anymore. He was only exposed because our defense got gassed and we had injuries to our best 2 pass rushers, Justin and Aldon. Coulndn't get ANY pressure the last few regular season games, or playoff games. And our secondary got torched for it.

There are plenty of guys that can play SS who have ball skills IMO.. With the amount that the elite teams are passing, it's pretty much essential.. We all saw what happens when there's a weak link in pass coverage.. Definitely a consistent pass rush will help, but why not upgrade both and not have to rely either on a pass rush, or good pass coverage?

We can upgrade both. But cutting Whitner isn't upgrading. He still has a year left. So that make no sense whatsoever. Draft a few players, give Whitner some competition maybe, and let's see what happens.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
We can upgrade both. But cutting Whitner isn't upgrading. He still has a year left. So that make no sense whatsoever. Draft a few players, give Whitner some competition maybe, and let's see what happens.

By cutting him, you save $4 million that can be used on a free agent or 2 that would help either the pass rush or pass coverage
$4 mil isn't unreasonable...what do you think he's worth?

In my opinion, he's ok in coverage. He shouldn't be one on one with a WR or elite TE in the first place, that's a mismatch for most SS.
Originally posted by Cooper22:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
We can upgrade both. But cutting Whitner isn't upgrading. He still has a year left. So that make no sense whatsoever. Draft a few players, give Whitner some competition maybe, and let's see what happens.

By cutting him, you save $4 million that can be used on a free agent or 2 that would help either the pass rush or pass coverage

By cutting him, we'd also leave a huge hole without knowing what we'd have right away by drafting a player instead taking a big risk for our back end with 2 newcomers.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
By cutting him, we'd also leave a huge hole without knowing what we'd have right away by drafting a player instead taking a big risk for our back end with 2 newcomers.

If I'm Baalke, I'm willing to take that risk.. Trent Robinson is known for his pass coverage abilities and that's why we drafted him.. I think Baalke knows that the culture is changing and he knew he wasn't going to offer Goldson a contract.. I'm not sure about Whitner on the other hand.. I definitely agree if we have 2 newcomer safeties, it made be a little sloppy in the beginning of the season, but it will be worth it come playoff time.. Idk just my opinion.. I'm willing to have a few blown coverages in the beginning of the season to eventually hopefully have much better pass coverage on the back end by the end of the season
Originally posted by Cooper22:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
By cutting him, we'd also leave a huge hole without knowing what we'd have right away by drafting a player instead taking a big risk for our back end with 2 newcomers.

If I'm Baalke, I'm willing to take that risk.. Trent Robinson is known for his pass coverage abilities and that's why we drafted him.. I think Baalke knows that the culture is changing and he knew he wasn't going to offer Goldson a contract.. I'm not sure about Whitner on the other hand.. I definitely agree if we have 2 newcomer safeties, it made be a little sloppy in the beginning of the season, but it will be worth it come playoff time.. Idk just my opinion.. I'm willing to have a few blown coverages in the beginning of the season to eventually hopefully have much better pass coverage on the back end by the end of the season

Thank god you're not Baalke.