Was Deion as a Falcon ever hated like Sherman was? Would you ever accept Sherman as a 9er?

Originally posted by Empire49:
A little limited? He is only good along the sidelines and in the red zone because of his size. This is why he stays on one side of the field and doesn't shadow a team's #1 WR like real shutdown CBs do. Even along the sidelines, he still isn't great unless he slows the WR down and ruins his route by illegally making contact downfield. He can't cover the slot and sucks in zone. Richard Sherman is the most overrated player in football. The guy literally talked his way up.

Deion was a showboat, but he never had to take to the media to establish himself. He did that on the field and only on the field. So to answer the thread's question, no, Deion was never hated as much as Sherman.

I try to not be biased and give my opponent their due but I can't find argument in what you are saying if I am being honest. Sherman is great at what he does well but there are some obviously glaring holes in his game and I am beginning to question some aspects of his character as well. Oh well, none of us are perfect and he has done very well for himself. In fact at his age as compared to when I was his age he has been "better in life than me" so kudos to him

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by zaghawk:
I'll admit it. Our defense holds a lot. Hell even our offense holds a lot. But the times I do watch other teams and other plays. I see it happening everywhere and just about every play if you were to pause a frame and zoom in on every player I guarantee you'll find a hold somewhere. is it right...no. But is it a Seahawk thing only, absolutely not. But the Seahawks are finally getting success and for those who won't admit its because they're finally good, then they'll use that as the only reason they can win. You want an uber clean game, the refs have to set the tone, call all EVERY holding penalty in the first 4-5 plays of the game. If not, the refs have decided they're going to let the players play it out. Therefore deal with it, bring it right back to them, or quit crying about it because unless you're a ref on the field or Roger Goddell it's not going to change.

I agree 100 brother! Stop whining and fight back! You let me coach. Thug ish baby! I'm out for blood. As far as I'm concerned the refs can go to bed. All out murder on the field!

See there is a difference though. Every other team in the NFL practices their plays within the rules. Seattles own DB coach came out and admitted they coach their DB's to hold early and often. So while it may be easy and flip to say "bring it right back to them, or quit crying" it isn't as easy as it sounds when you were coached to play within the rules.

Originally posted by WINiner:

See there is a difference though. Every other team in the NFL practices their plays within the rules. Seattles own DB coach came out and admitted they coach their DB's to hold early and often. So while it may be easy and flip to say "bring it right back to them, or quit crying" it isn't as easy as it sounds when you were coached to play within the rules.

That's what I've been saying though for about a year now. BAL did the same thing to us by pushing the rules compensating for their lack of talent in that Super Bowl. We played fair and lost! Now it is SEA. They are willing to do whatever it takes to defeat us. They have found a way to match up and it consists of mugging our WRs. We have to coach our players to do whatever it takes to neutralize their tactics. Push off shove and mug their DBs with our large physical WRs and on defense we have to grab hold of their appetizer WRs as well. Especially the very dangerous Harvin. If the refs ain't calling it play the game the way its called

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by zaghawk:
I'll admit it. Our defense holds a lot. Hell even our offense holds a lot. But the times I do watch other teams and other plays. I see it happening everywhere and just about every play if you were to pause a frame and zoom in on every player I guarantee you'll find a hold somewhere. is it right...no. But is it a Seahawk thing only, absolutely not. But the Seahawks are finally getting success and for those who won't admit its because they're finally good, then they'll use that as the only reason they can win. You want an uber clean game, the refs have to set the tone, call all EVERY holding penalty in the first 4-5 plays of the game. If not, the refs have decided they're going to let the players play it out. Therefore deal with it, bring it right back to them, or quit crying about it because unless you're a ref on the field or Roger Goddell it's not going to change.

I agree 100 brother! Stop whining and fight back! You let me coach. Thug ish baby! I'm out for blood. As far as I'm concerned the refs can go to bed. All out murder on the field!

See there is a difference though. Every other team in the NFL practices their plays within the rules. Seattles own DB coach came out and admitted they coach their DB's to hold early and often. So while it may be easy and flip to say "bring it right back to them, or quit crying" it isn't as easy as it sounds when you were coached to play within the rules.

Good point, and the one time we were physical and aggressive, we got called for P.I. (Culliver in the Superbowl) on a critical drive that took tons of time off the clock and ended in a FG. I have no issues with going back to 80's style DB football but like Harbaugh himself said, it's got to be called fair and even both ways and you've got to tell the coaches that up front, before the game. You can't have a different set of rules for Seattle and the Ravens while everyone else plays and practices within the rules. Period.

I still say that instead of just capitulating and playing the game illegally, you figure out ways to make it very hard for Seattle DB's to grab and hold - bunch formations and movement. That way, if enough teams complain, the NFL starts throwing those flags and you're not in the same sorry boat as the cheaters. It's not just the Niners complaining. Now, the Broncos are complaining along with Jeff Fisher and Bruce Arians. The Seahawk strategy is not one that can last very long IMO. It's like a gimmick.

Originally posted by crake49:
I still say that instead of just capitulating and playing the game illegally, you figure out ways to make it very hard for Seattle DB's to grab and hold - bunch formations and movement. That way, if enough teams complain, the NFL starts throwing those flags and you're not in the same sorry boat as the cheaters. It's not just the Niners complaining. Now, the Broncos are complaining along with Jeff Fisher and Bruce Arians. The Seahawk strategy is not one that can last very long IMO. It's like a gimmick.

The NFL is fully aware of the issue and have said as much that they will be reviewing this topic (rule) in the off season, perhaps with the rules committee. The bottom line is everyone has known about it for a long time but the bigger question is, will anyone do anything about it...and do it on a consistent and fair basis for both teams no mattr what stadium te game is played in? And the loop hole isn't just the holding...it's the constant holding past 5 yards and all the way through the entirety of the play, even when the ball arrives. It automatically defaults to, "Prior to the pass, holding. 5 yards. Automatic first down." You would think the P.I. would trump the initial holding call. Make that call several times in a game and I guarantee you, the DB's will be forced to stop it.

But you are right. We can ask the players to put vaseline and other oils all over their uniforms and skin and line up in 4-man WR bunch formations from the slot and see if that works. LOL. Kididng.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by zaghawk:
I'll admit it. Our defense holds a lot. Hell even our offense holds a lot. But the times I do watch other teams and other plays. I see it happening everywhere and just about every play if you were to pause a frame and zoom in on every player I guarantee you'll find a hold somewhere. is it right...no. But is it a Seahawk thing only, absolutely not. But the Seahawks are finally getting success and for those who won't admit its because they're finally good, then they'll use that as the only reason they can win. You want an uber clean game, the refs have to set the tone, call all EVERY holding penalty in the first 4-5 plays of the game. If not, the refs have decided they're going to let the players play it out. Therefore deal with it, bring it right back to them, or quit crying about it because unless you're a ref on the field or Roger Goddell it's not going to change.

I agree 100 brother! Stop whining and fight back! You let me coach. Thug ish baby! I'm out for blood. As far as I'm concerned the refs can go to bed. All out murder on the field!

See there is a difference though. Every other team in the NFL practices their plays within the rules. Seattles own DB coach came out and admitted they coach their DB's to hold early and often. So while it may be easy and flip to say "bring it right back to them, or quit crying" it isn't as easy as it sounds when you were coached to play within the rules.

Good point, and the one time we were physical and aggressive, we got called for P.I. (Culliver in the Superbowl) on a critical drive that took tons of time off the clock and ended in a FG. I have no issues with going back to 80's style DB football but like Harbaugh himself said, it's got to be called fair and even both ways and you've got to tell the coaches that up front, before the game. You can't have a different set of rules for Seattle and the Ravens while everyone else plays and practices within the rules. Period.

This is my biggest complaint about Seadderalls defense. They are allowed to play a style of ball that others are not and the excuse I always hear is "Well that's just the way Seattle plays defense" as if that somehow negates the fact that they intentionally break the rules and the refs do not enforce said rule that is being intentionally broken.

If the rules are not the same for everyone and enforced unilaterally the competition is tainted and the NFL is predetermined sports entertainment, not a sporting contest. Hence the reason Seadderall fans feel disrespected after having finally won one. The majority of NFL fans feel they didn't really earn it.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by crake49:

I still say that instead of just capitulating and playing the game illegally, you figure out ways to make it very hard for Seattle DB's to grab and hold - bunch formations and movement. That way, if enough teams complain, the NFL starts throwing those flags and you're not in the same sorry boat as the cheaters. It's not just the Niners complaining. Now, the Broncos are complaining along with Jeff Fisher and Bruce Arians. The Seahawk strategy is not one that can last very long IMO. It's like a gimmick.

The NFL is fully aware of the issue and have said as much that they will be reviewing this topic (rule) in the off season, perhaps with the rules committee. The bottom line is everyone has known about it for a long time but the bigger question is, will anyone do anything about it...and do it on a consistent and fair basis for both teams no mattr what stadium te game is played in? And the loop hole isn't just the holding...it's the constant holding past 5 yards and all the way through the entirety of the play, even when the ball arrives. It automatically defaults to, "Prior to the pass, holding. 5 yards. Automatic first down." You would think the P.I. would trump the initial holding call. Make that call several times in a game and I guarantee you, the DB's will be forced to stop it.

But you are right. We can ask the players to put vaseline and other oils all over their uniforms and skin and line up in 4-man WR bunch formations from the slot and see if that works. LOL. Kididng.

If the league starts adopting the the Seattle strategy I have a funny feeling flags will start to fly. Holding like this by everyone will put a hole In the nfl's fantasy football league and passing numbers will suffer. Afterall the nfl nowadays, is all about making every qb a 5000 yard passer and putting up the highest amount of points. Admittly I'm an offensive guy at heart, but the league the last 5-8 years is getting rediculous and it amazes me that Seattle could continuely get away with their style of pass defense.

Originally posted by crake49:
I still say that instead of just capitulating and playing the game illegally, you figure out ways to make it very hard for Seattle DB's to grab and hold - bunch formations and movement. That way, if enough teams complain, the NFL starts throwing those flags and you're not in the same sorry boat as the cheaters. It's not just the Niners complaining. Now, the Broncos are complaining along with Jeff Fisher and Bruce Arians. The Seahawk strategy is not one that can last very long IMO. It's like a gimmick.

Have they gone on record? Links to interviews?

Originally posted by crake49:
I still say that instead of just capitulating and playing the game illegally, you figure out ways to make it very hard for Seattle DB's to grab and hold - bunch formations and movement. That way, if enough teams complain, the NFL starts throwing those flags and you're not in the same sorry boat as the cheaters. It's not just the Niners complaining. Now, the Broncos are complaining along with Jeff Fisher and Bruce Arians. The Seahawk strategy is not one that can last very long IMO. It's like a gimmick.

the problem is the qb's gotta throw the ball to force the issue a few times. all of these gif's showing their holding dont mean a whole lot if the qb wont attempt to rifle it in there. its like the OT holding on a play where the qb scrambled out away from the play. they're not usually going to call a hold by an o-lineman if the defender wasnt going to get there anyways. even if the qbs threw it in there where the illegal contact was occuring the refs still arent go to throw a flag every single play just because it will bog the game down, but by throwing the ball there you at least bring a little bit more attention to it than if the qb see's the contact and scrambles out or throws it away or to the other side of the field. too many teams played into seattles hands last year and played scared. i dont love their strategy but can respect the brilliance of it.

Cheating is cheating.

I can't find links to written material on Fisher and Arians, but on ESPN, I saw them and some other coaches asked to comment on this Wall Street Journal article regarding the Seahawk defensive strategy:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303754404579310500005285822

It was mainly winks and nods and comments like "everyone knows what they're doing" statements.

Originally posted by crake49:
I can't find links to written material on Fisher and Arians, but on ESPN, I saw them and some other coaches asked to comment on this Wall Street Journal article regarding the Seahawk defensive strategy:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303754404579310500005285822

It was mainly winks and nods and comments like "everyone knows what they're doing" statements.

everyone does know what they're doing, fans, coaches, players. you cant sit around waiting for the refs to hand out illegal contact penalties on them. sure they will call a few but they wont call them all not unlike holding on the o-line. it it affects they play they'll call it but if it doesnt they're liable to keep the flag in the pocket and keep the game moving. if these guys are going to grab and hold every play then the qb has to throw the ball to that guy to bring more attention to the violations taking place. if the qb sees a grab then throws to the other side of the field, regardless of the outcome of that throw to the other side you're probably not going to get that illegal contact penalty. if the qb sees the grab i'd advise him to throw it in there then you're likely to get the call. too many teams played scared vs seattle and didnt force the action.

Originally posted by crabman82:
everyone does know what they're doing, fans, coaches, players. you cant sit around waiting for the refs to hand out illegal contact penalties on them. sure they will call a few but they wont call them all not unlike holding on the o-line. it it affects they play they'll call it but if it doesnt they're liable to keep the flag in the pocket and keep the game moving. if these guys are going to grab and hold every play then the qb has to throw the ball to that guy to bring more attention to the violations taking place. if the qb sees a grab then throws to the other side of the field, regardless of the outcome of that throw to the other side you're probably not going to get that illegal contact penalty. if the qb sees the grab i'd advise him to throw it in there then you're likely to get the call. too many teams played scared vs seattle and didnt force the action.

That's why I expect the Niners and other teams to figure out ways to free up receivers and make it harder for the Seattle DB's to get their hands on them. For example, I expect to see a receiver out wide opposite Sherman and then another receiver in motion running out to that area as the ball is snapped.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by crabman82:
everyone does know what they're doing, fans, coaches, players. you cant sit around waiting for the refs to hand out illegal contact penalties on them. sure they will call a few but they wont call them all not unlike holding on the o-line. it it affects they play they'll call it but if it doesnt they're liable to keep the flag in the pocket and keep the game moving. if these guys are going to grab and hold every play then the qb has to throw the ball to that guy to bring more attention to the violations taking place. if the qb sees a grab then throws to the other side of the field, regardless of the outcome of that throw to the other side you're probably not going to get that illegal contact penalty. if the qb sees the grab i'd advise him to throw it in there then you're likely to get the call. too many teams played scared vs seattle and didnt force the action.

That's why I expect the Niners and other teams to figure out ways to free up receivers and make it harder for the Seattle DB's to get their hands on them. For example, I expect to see a receiver out wide opposite Sherman and then another receiver in motion running out to that area as the ball is snapped.

yeah i dont think the niners played scared vs them, just came up a play short. however when i watch seattle play other teams (live in their market and get all of their games) they are scared s**tless to even challenge them