Griffin or Kaepernick?

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by vrabbit:
RG3, my god this board has lost all objectivity whatsoever

Why? Kaep has all the measurables Griffin has, while beating him soundly in the mental department (if you put any stock in Wonderlic scores). We don't have the benefit of watching Kaep play like this for a full season, but if his first five games were projected onto an entire season, there's no way you'd be complaining for objectivity.

RG3: 24 total TD, 6 total turnovers, 2902 passing yards, 748 rushing yards in 13 games

Kap (as a starter): 9 total TD, 3 total turnovers, 1088 passing yards, 202 rushing yards in 5 games --> projected over 13 games: 23 total TD, 8 turnovers, 2829 passing yards, 525 rushing yards

and that's ASSUMING, for your convenience, that his projected numbers don't take a hit.

RG3 was the superior prospect coming in, and he's been just about everything he was hyped up to be. I ain't knocking Kap at all, I'm excited for him, but I'd take RG3 over him

And you are assuming his projected numbers don't improve. Those numbers are very comparable and Kaep is only going to get better. Remember, these are his first five starts and he dropped in the draft because he was a "project". Kaep has the higher ceiling because of his similar measurables and edge in the mental department. So no, it's not a "my god" you people are crazy, decision to want Kaep over RGIII.

and RG3's numbers, by the same account, also won't improve? I'm sorry, when was it determined Kap has an "edge in the mental department"? Where does that even come from? Enough with silliness

RGIIIs numbers have already improved since his first five games. It's convenient for you to project Kaep's first five games and compare them to a guy who has had the benefit of improving over the course of a season.. Still, the numbers aren't far off, in fact, they're very similar. So no, again, I don't get why people are so out of touch in reality to pick Kaep ahead of RGIII. Furthermore, the edge in the mental department comes from Kaep's score of 38 in the Wonderlic and RGIII's score of 24. Of course, that is just one barometer of aptitude and it certainly does not test football IQ, thus the discrepencies from players who score well and do poorly (and vice versa), but it is far from irrelevant. Kaep is a very intelligent guy, moreso than guys like RGIII and Cam Newton, and this test reflects that.

Also, maybe you can try to be a little less condescending. Kthanx.

convenient for me to project Kap's numbers huh? Go on, Amp

I can't believe you actually tried to use the Wonderlic in your argument, and stuck to your statement about Kap being more intelligent than RG3 with no basis whatsoever

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by vrabbit:
RG3, my god this board has lost all objectivity whatsoever

Why? Kaep has all the measurables Griffin has, while beating him soundly in the mental department (if you put any stock in Wonderlic scores). We don't have the benefit of watching Kaep play like this for a full season, but if his first five games were projected onto an entire season, there's no way you'd be complaining for objectivity.

RG3: 24 total TD, 6 total turnovers, 2902 passing yards, 748 rushing yards in 13 games

Kap (as a starter): 9 total TD, 3 total turnovers, 1088 passing yards, 202 rushing yards in 5 games --> projected over 13 games: 23 total TD, 8 turnovers, 2829 passing yards, 525 rushing yards

and that's ASSUMING, for your convenience, that his projected numbers don't take a hit.

RG3 was the superior prospect coming in, and he's been just about everything he was hyped up to be. I ain't knocking Kap at all, I'm excited for him, but I'd take RG3 over him

And you are assuming his projected numbers don't improve. Those numbers are very comparable and Kaep is only going to get better. Remember, these are his first five starts and he dropped in the draft because he was a "project". Kaep has the higher ceiling because of his similar measurables and edge in the mental department. So no, it's not a "my god" you people are crazy, decision to want Kaep over RGIII.

and RG3's numbers, by the same account, also won't improve? I'm sorry, when was it determined Kap has an "edge in the mental department"? Where does that even come from? Enough with silliness

RGIIIs numbers have already improved since his first five games. It's convenient for you to project Kaep's first five games and compare them to a guy who has had the benefit of improving over the course of a season.. Still, the numbers aren't far off, in fact, they're very similar. So no, again, I don't get why people are so out of touch in reality to pick Kaep ahead of RGIII. Furthermore, the edge in the mental department comes from Kaep's score of 38 in the Wonderlic and RGIII's score of 24. Of course, that is just one barometer of aptitude and it certainly does not test football IQ, thus the discrepencies from players who score well and do poorly (and vice versa), but it is far from irrelevant. Kaep is a very intelligent guy, moreso than guys like RGIII and Cam Newton, and this test reflects that.

Also, maybe you can try to be a little less condescending. Kthanx.

convenient for me to project Kap's numbers huh? Go on, Amp

I can't believe you actually tried to use the Wonderlic in your argument, and stuck to your statement about Kap being more intelligent than RG3 with no basis whatsoever

Sorry but you actually have to watch RG3 play to understand how good he really is, He doesn't play like a rookie. Keap might be as good as RG3 down the road, but as it stands right now its not really close. Whats sparked my curiosity is, I would love to see what RG3 can do with Harbaugh, that would be exciting to see.

RGIII in a heartbeat
He's faster, a much better passer, reads defenses better, a smarter football player.
RGIII is a stud

Originally posted by Jesu80ncleats:
Sorry but you actually have to watch RG3 play to understand how good he really is, He doesn't play like a rookie. Keap might be as good as RG3 down the road, but as it stands right now its not really close. Whats sparked my curiosity is, I would love to see what RG3 can do with Harbaugh, that would be exciting to see.

This.

Way too early to tell.

I live in DC where everyone walks, talks and over-analyzes everything RG 3 does. One thing to consider is that Shannahan is running a very scaled back version of their offense for RG 3. Basically the plan is to keep it simple and let RG 3's athleticism shine. I think Harbaugh could learn something from them in this respect. CK7 looks lost sometimes and I do not get the impression Harbaugh is keeping the offense simple. Most of the time I'd rather them just run the damn play instead of taking forever to get the snap off and wasting TOs. This team always feels like it gets less plays off because of these Harbaugh games.

Kap has bigger potential.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by vrabbit:
RG3, my god this board has lost all objectivity whatsoever

Why? Kaep has all the measurables Griffin has, while beating him soundly in the mental department (if you put any stock in Wonderlic scores). We don't have the benefit of watching Kaep play like this for a full season, but if his first five games were projected onto an entire season, there's no way you'd be complaining for objectivity.

RG3: 24 total TD, 6 total turnovers, 2902 passing yards, 748 rushing yards in 13 games

Kap (as a starter): 9 total TD, 3 total turnovers, 1088 passing yards, 202 rushing yards in 5 games --> projected over 13 games: 23 total TD, 8 turnovers, 2829 passing yards, 525 rushing yards

and that's ASSUMING, for your convenience, that his projected numbers don't take a hit.

RG3 was the superior prospect coming in, and he's been just about everything he was hyped up to be. I ain't knocking Kap at all, I'm excited for him, but I'd take RG3 over him

RG3 also been injured twice already. He seems a little small and fragile to continue that style of play also I think Kap is a better pocked passer.

Last night's game pretty much proved Kaep has a long way to go yet as a pocket passer.

Sorry, RG3 is a clear choice at this point.

Griffen has shown the ability to make his receivers better. I'm not sure that Kaepernick has done that yet. Crabtree was already having a great season before Kaep took the helm.

Originally posted by InconvenienTTruth21:
RGIII in a heartbeat
He's faster, a much better passer, reads defenses better, a smarter football player.
RGIII is a stud

I'm not sure RG3 is faster, and even if he was it wouldn't be by much

I'd take Russell Wilson over RGIII, CK, and Luck.

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
I'd take Russell Wilson over RGIII, CK, and Luck.

ok

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by InconvenienTTruth21:
RGIII in a heartbeat
He's faster, a much better passer, reads defenses better, a smarter football player.
RGIII is a stud

I'm not sure RG3 is faster, and even if he was it wouldn't be by much

RG3 ran a 4.41 and Colin ran a 4.53 not to much difference in speed if you were to have then side to side, however Colin's shuttle time of 4.18 and 3 cone 6.85 is very similar to Nick Perry's of 4.66 shuttle and 7.25 3 cone, I don't remember RG3 doing the 3 cone or the shuttle but watching him play he is MUCH better than Kap in space and moves around with exceptional agility, where as Kap is more of a down hill runner not that good in space. Just my personal take

Originally posted by Jesu80ncleats:

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by InconvenienTTruth21:
RGIII in a heartbeat
He's faster, a much better passer, reads defenses better, a smarter football player.
RGIII is a stud

I'm not sure RG3 is faster, and even if he was it wouldn't be by much

RG3 ran a 4.41 and Colin ran a 4.53 not to much difference in speed if you were to have then side to side, however Colin's shuttle time of 4.18 and 3 cone 6.85 is very similar to Nick Perry's of 4.66 shuttle and 7.25 3 cone, I don't remember RG3 doing the 3 cone or the shuttle but watching him play he is MUCH better than Kap in space and moves around with exceptional agility, where as Kap is more of a down hill runner not that good in space. Just my personal take

I beg to differ, 4.41 is elite speed, there are some teams where Griffin would be the fastest player, others teams might have 2-3 guys that run that fast. On the other hand I would be willing to bet the average team has 10 guys who could run around 4.53.

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by Jesu80ncleats:

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by InconvenienTTruth21:
RGIII in a heartbeat
He's faster, a much better passer, reads defenses better, a smarter football player.
RGIII is a stud

I'm not sure RG3 is faster, and even if he was it wouldn't be by much

RG3 ran a 4.41 and Colin ran a 4.53 not to much difference in speed if you were to have then side to side, however Colin's shuttle time of 4.18 and 3 cone 6.85 is very similar to Nick Perry's of 4.66 shuttle and 7.25 3 cone, I don't remember RG3 doing the 3 cone or the shuttle but watching him play he is MUCH better than Kap in space and moves around with exceptional agility, where as Kap is more of a down hill runner not that good in space. Just my personal take

I beg to differ, 4.41 is elite speed, there are some teams where Griffin would be the fastest player, others teams might have 2-3 guys that run that fast. On the other hand I would be willing to bet the average team has 10 guys who could run around 4.53.

If both were in a race head to head at the finish line it would be bang bang, that's all i was getting at. The point I was trying to make though is that Griffin is more of an elite RUNNER (overall) than Kap.

Russell Wilson.