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Cam Johnson is a 49er

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Intrestinf we have 5 olb no way they all make it bye

I would have no qualms trading Haralson if Fleming and Johnson impress, but I'm doubtful they'll do enough to supplant him, even though they're solid prospects.


Trading Haralson, with that contract?? I think Parys better be working out because he might be cut.
Originally posted by ImaMod:
Trent Baalke values passrushing the most in 3-4 OLBs, he's said that before. Both of the guys were got have a lot more potential to be better passrushers than Haralson. I think Haralson will get traded or cut

I hope we can atleast get a 6th or 7th rounder for him. 3-4 olbs who can actually play are hard to find. hopefully someone's willing to give up something for him.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If someone got hurt, they would have to be 3-down guys, but right now they're just situational rushers (like Aldon was). Nobody has been a bigger fan of Haralson than me even since his days at Tenn, but the guy just doesn't make much of an impact when he's on the field. Now, I doubt he gets cut in favor of these two rooks, but then again, I didn't think Harbaugh would go with two rookie QBs to backup Smith last year either. Harbaugh is a gambler, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

He kept two rookies at QB because there was no way of putting tolzien on the practice squad. It would be easy to stash either fleming or johnson on the PS (assuming they both dont turn out to be the second coming of LT during the pre-season).

Saying someone is a gambler says nothing about whether they are blatantly reckless or not. Harbaugh doesn't seem reckless, he seems cool and calculating actually. And cutting a player who played two thirds of the snaps for the leagues best defense just seems reckless. To keep 2 late round rookies as the only backups at olb seems reckless. Especially when you consider that no one knows how Aldon Smith will hold up as a full time starter over the course of a full season. Last season he was always rested and was never at much risk for injury because he never had to hold up against a run game. No one knows how he will hold up physically and whether being the starter will affect his ability to russ the passer on third downs.

So, we can stash one of the rookies on the PS; we can't use that salary to sign anyone good at this point; and if anything happens to Aldon's game, we suddenly become very vulnerable. It literally does us no harm by keeping him.

Cutting him is all downside and no upside.
Originally posted by ImaMod:
Trent Baalke values passrushing the most in 3-4 OLBs, he's said that before. Both of the guys were got have a lot more potential to be better passrushers than Haralson. I think Haralson will get traded or cut

I love it , because our 3-4 before baalke was all LB's drop back in zone, and then give every QB all day to throw (under manusky/and the drunk guy) it was so bad to watch.
[ Edited by unst4bl3 on Apr 28, 2012 at 11:51 PM ]
Not so much of a gamble to have two rookie QB's backing up your QB when your starter is Alex Smith. If you can win with Smith you can win with your rookies... lmao.

Not to bash Smith too much but pretty much any QB in the league could have filled his role. Heck maybe Tebow could have even done better as we see what Teblow did with a mediocre defense and no passing arm at all. Might of got a superbowl with our D and special teams.
Originally posted by BayArea:
Not so much of a gamble to have two rookie QB's backing up your QB when your starter is Alex Smith. If you can win with Smith you can win with your rookies... lmao.

Not to bash Smith too much but pretty much any QB in the league could have filled his role. Heck maybe Tebow could have even done better as we see what Teblow did with a mediocre defense and no passing arm at all. Might of got a superbowl with our D and special teams.

Please.
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If someone got hurt, they would have to be 3-down guys, but right now they're just situational rushers (like Aldon was). Nobody has been a bigger fan of Haralson than me even since his days at Tenn, but the guy just doesn't make much of an impact when he's on the field. Now, I doubt he gets cut in favor of these two rooks, but then again, I didn't think Harbaugh would go with two rookie QBs to backup Smith last year either. Harbaugh is a gambler, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

He kept two rookies at QB because there was no way of putting tolzien on the practice squad. It would be easy to stash either fleming or johnson on the PS (assuming they both dont turn out to be the second coming of LT during the pre-season).

Saying someone is a gambler says nothing about whether they are blatantly reckless or not. Harbaugh doesn't seem reckless, he seems cool and calculating actually. And cutting a player who played two thirds of the snaps for the leagues best defense just seems reckless. To keep 2 late round rookies as the only backups at olb seems reckless. Especially when you consider that no one knows how Aldon Smith will hold up as a full time starter over the course of a full season. Last season he was always rested and was never at much risk for injury because he never had to hold up against a run game. No one knows how he will hold up physically and whether being the starter will affect his ability to russ the passer on third downs.

So, we can stash one of the rookies on the PS; we can't use that salary to sign anyone good at this point; and if anything happens to Aldon's game, we suddenly become very vulnerable. It literally does us no harm by keeping him.

Cutting him is all downside and no upside.

I'm sorry, but you're not being realistic. Keeping 2 rookies (one undrafted and the other was in a pistol offense for 4 years) to back up Alex Smith was the HEIGHT of recklessness, yet Harbaugh did it because he truly felt Kap and Tolzien could step in and do the job. So if Fleming and Johnson prove in training camp and pre-season games that they can handle it, why would it be any different? I'm not saying it will or should happen (see my bolded quote above), but you're acting like it's unprecendented that JH would put his faith in 2 untested rookies to back up a critical spot.

You either have a short memory or aren't seeing that situation for what it really was...a HUGE risk that was mitigated by the fact that Harbaugh believed in his young players and wasn't afraid to keep them on the roster in favor of veterans. You say it's because Tolzien would've never made it through waivers....seriously? they could've picked up any veteran on the street to be the 3rd string backup to Smith and Kap and not batted an eye. Harbaugh wanted Tolzien on the ACTIVE roster because he believed in him.

And if Harbaugh believes in Cam and Fleming over Haralson, he'll go with the two young guys and let Haralson walk. If it happens, you'll call it reckless, I say it's just Harbaugh.

And if anything happens to Aldon's game (as you say), we're seriously f**ked and Parys Haralson isn't going to make much of a difference in that situation. That's just my opinion...having him around might make you and some other people feel better (that a veteran is there to step in), but it's just window-dressing at that point.
Originally posted by BayArea:
Not so much of a gamble to have two rookie QB's backing up your QB when your starter is Alex Smith. If you can win with Smith you can win with your rookies... lmao.

Not to bash Smith too much but pretty much any QB in the league could have filled his role. Heck maybe Tebow could have even done better as we see what Teblow did with a mediocre defense and no passing arm at all. Might of got a superbowl with our D and special teams.

Actually its not much of a gamble when your veteran backup is Josh McCown. It's very possible that Kaep would have been the 2nd string QB on our team last year even with McCown on the roster. In that case, might as well go for potential with your third spot. There is nothing to lose.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I'm sorry, but you're not being realistic. Keeping 2 rookies (one undrafted and the other was in a pistol offense for 4 years) to back up Alex Smith was the HEIGHT of recklessness, yet Harbaugh did it because he truly felt Kap and Tolzien could step in and do the job. So if Fleming and Johnson prove in training camp and pre-season games that they can handle it, why would it be any different? I'm not saying it will or should happen (see my bolded quote above), but you're acting like it's unprecendented that JH would put his faith in 2 untested rookies to back up a critical spot.

You either have a short memory or aren't seeing that situation for what it really was...a HUGE risk that was mitigated by the fact that Harbaugh believed in his young players and wasn't afraid to keep them on the roster in favor of veterans. You say it's because Tolzien would've never made it through waivers....seriously? they could've picked up any veteran on the street to be the 3rd string backup to Smith and Kap and not batted an eye. Harbaugh wanted Tolzien on the ACTIVE roster because he believed in him.

And if Harbaugh believes in Cam and Fleming over Haralson, he'll go with the two young guys and let Haralson walk. If it happens, you'll call it reckless, I say it's just Harbaugh.

And if anything happens to Aldon's game (as you say), we're seriously f**ked and Parys Haralson isn't going to make much of a difference in that situation. That's just my opinion...having him around might make you and some other people feel better (that a veteran is there to step in), but it's just window-dressing at that point.

Your risk analysis is flawed.

If aldon gets injured, we are not in too bad a situation with Parys. Pash rush is hurt, but Parys is a competent NFL player. If you put in a rookie, we're f**ked. We now have a gaping hole in our defense. But the key point is that we lose nothing by keeping Parys. We can easily stash one of those guys on the PS. Harbaugh can have just as much faith in those guys on the PS.

As for QB, Josh McCown was our backup. If Alex Smith went down, we had two bad options behind him regardless of whether it was Tolzien or McCown. So therefore might as well take the young guy with potential. If Aldon goes down you have 1 good option and 1 bad option, so you can't compare last years QB situation to this years OLB situation.

The QB move was cold and calculating, it had little downside and a lot of upside. Cutting Parys is the opposite, all downside and no upside.
Also, it wasn't a HUGE risk to cut Josh McCown. Just think what your saying there. (Kaep probably would have played over him anyway, but thats just my opinion). This board may have made a big deal of it, because we only had rookies as backups, but...it was Josh McCown!
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I'm sorry, but you're not being realistic. Keeping 2 rookies (one undrafted and the other was in a pistol offense for 4 years) to back up Alex Smith was the HEIGHT of recklessness, yet Harbaugh did it because he truly felt Kap and Tolzien could step in and do the job. So if Fleming and Johnson prove in training camp and pre-season games that they can handle it, why would it be any different? I'm not saying it will or should happen (see my bolded quote above), but you're acting like it's unprecendented that JH would put his faith in 2 untested rookies to back up a critical spot.

You either have a short memory or aren't seeing that situation for what it really was...a HUGE risk that was mitigated by the fact that Harbaugh believed in his young players and wasn't afraid to keep them on the roster in favor of veterans. You say it's because Tolzien would've never made it through waivers....seriously? they could've picked up any veteran on the street to be the 3rd string backup to Smith and Kap and not batted an eye. Harbaugh wanted Tolzien on the ACTIVE roster because he believed in him.

And if Harbaugh believes in Cam and Fleming over Haralson, he'll go with the two young guys and let Haralson walk. If it happens, you'll call it reckless, I say it's just Harbaugh.

And if anything happens to Aldon's game (as you say), we're seriously f**ked and Parys Haralson isn't going to make much of a difference in that situation. That's just my opinion...having him around might make you and some other people feel better (that a veteran is there to step in), but it's just window-dressing at that point.

Your risk analysis is flawed.

If aldon gets injured, we are not in too bad a situation with Parys. Pash rush is hurt, but Parys is a competent NFL player. If you put in a rookie, we're f**ked. We now have a gaping hole in our defense. But the key point is that we lose nothing by keeping Parys. We can easily stash one of those guys on the PS. Harbaugh can have just as much faith in those guys on the PS.

As for QB, Josh McCown was our backup. If Alex Smith went down, we had two bad options behind him regardless of whether it was Tolzien or McCown. So therefore might as well take the young guy with potential. If Aldon goes down you have 1 good option and 1 bad option, so you can't compare last years QB situation to this years OLB situation.

The QB move was cold and calculating, it had little downside and a lot of upside. Cutting Parys is the opposite, all downside and no upside.

And you're making assumptions left and right. How the hell do you know Cam Johnson or Fleming won't play great in training camp/pre-season and make Haralson expendable? You don't, do you? We already know what Haralson can do because we've seen it for 7 years...but you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what these two guys can do, yet you somehow already know that we'll have a "gaping hole" in our defense.

Dude, you have no idea so don't act like you do.

My point is very obvious. If Harbaugh feels Haralson is a better option than one or both, he'll stay and I've already stated as much. But if he feels those two can handle the backup roles, there's a good chance he will keep them over Haralson.

Again, cutting Parys only has downside if we believe your assumption (which is all it is at this point) that Cam or Fleming aren't better options. But if either or both prove to Harbaugh in training camp/pre-season (as Tolzien did) that they're just as or more capable than Haralson, he'll go with them. I'm not sure why that's so hard to follow.
Originally posted by nannite:
Also, it wasn't a HUGE risk to cut Josh McCown. Just think what your saying there. (Kaep probably would have played over him anyway, but thats just my opinion). This board may have made a big deal of it, because we only had rookies as backups, but...it was Josh McCown!

Yah, and it was Tolzien who's done even less than McCown in the NFL.
This is a solid pick. It was worth a shot late in the 7th round to see if we can get anything out of this guy.

This really reminds me of when we took RJF back in 2009. An underachiever who slid in the draft due to a lack of perceived consistency/effort. Hopefully Cam Johnson can become a solid rotational player for us, just like RJF has.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
And you're making assumptions left and right. How the hell do you know Cam Johnson or Fleming won't play great in training camp/pre-season and make Haralson expendable? You don't, do you? We already know what Haralson can do because we've seen it for 7 years...but you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what these two guys can do, yet you somehow already know that we'll have a "gaping hole" in our defense.

Dude, you have no idea so don't act like you do.

My point is very obvious. If Harbaugh feels Haralson is a better option than one or both, he'll stay and I've already stated as much. But if he feels those two can handle the backup roles, there's a good chance he will keep them over Haralson.

Again, cutting Parys only has downside if we believe your assumption (which is all it is at this point) that Cam or Fleming aren't better options. But if either or both prove to Harbaugh in training camp/pre-season (as Tolzien did) that they're just as or more capable than Haralson, he'll go with them. I'm not sure why that's so hard to follow.

I am making one assumption: they will play like late round draft picks. (haralson is better than your average fifth round draft pick so dont make that comparison)

If they both prove in training camp they're better than Haralson, then he will be cut. I'm not being unrealistically biased towards Haralson, I just think we as fans undervalue solid backups and overvalue late round draft picks.

(Tolzien is probably overvalued, but McCown wasn't solid so its irrelevant)
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
And you're making assumptions left and right. How the hell do you know Cam Johnson or Fleming won't play great in training camp/pre-season and make Haralson expendable? You don't, do you? We already know what Haralson can do because we've seen it for 7 years...but you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what these two guys can do, yet you somehow already know that we'll have a "gaping hole" in our defense.

Dude, you have no idea so don't act like you do.

My point is very obvious. If Harbaugh feels Haralson is a better option than one or both, he'll stay and I've already stated as much. But if he feels those two can handle the backup roles, there's a good chance he will keep them over Haralson.

Again, cutting Parys only has downside if we believe your assumption (which is all it is at this point) that Cam or Fleming aren't better options. But if either or both prove to Harbaugh in training camp/pre-season (as Tolzien did) that they're just as or more capable than Haralson, he'll go with them. I'm not sure why that's so hard to follow.

I am making one assumption: they will play like late round draft picks. (haralson is better than your average fifth round draft pick so dont make that comparison)

If they both prove in training camp they're better than Haralson, then he will be cut. I'm not being unrealistically biased towards Haralson, I just think we as fans undervalue solid backups and overvalue late round draft picks.

(Tolzien is probably overvalued, but McCown wasn't solid so its irrelevant)

You're talking to a fan of Parys Haralson since his days at Tennessee, so I personally don't undervalue him. I've wanted him to succeed for the last 11 years, but he's average at best at this stage of his career (which was honestly never that spectacular to begin with). Btw, the bolded statement is all that I've been trying to say.

And technically, if Cam and Fleming line up opposite of each other at the 3-4 OLB spot, you could be accused of making "left and right" assumptions about their play. Sorry, had to go there.