You don't need a elite QB

In the 46 Super Bowls played there have been only 8 "elite" QBs to win multiple Super Bowls, they are,

1. Montana 4
2. Elway 2
3 Aikman 3
4.Stabauch 2
5. Bart Star 2
6. Brady 3
7. Rothelisberger 2
8. Bradshaw 4(not elite, but I'll give him a pass for 4 rings)

That's 22 championships out of 46, so that means that under average or average or slighty above average QBs have won the others, the likes of
Doug Willams, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Mark Rypein, and the list goes on... So why is that Alex Smith at this stage of the Harbuagh era can't win one. We can , if need be, hide him behind a strong run game and a stout Defense.  Allow him 20-25 passes and let the run game dominate and the defense/special teams set us up in great field position However Alex will grow and be more than a game managing QB, under Harbaugh.


Jan21975

91 Giants '11 Niners

In 1991 the Giants played the Buffalo bills in Super Bowl 26, even though the Giants defeated my beloved Niners to get there in a championship game that would have given us a 3peat, it's the Giants of 91 this 2011 niner teams resembles. Jeff Hosteler had taken over for the injured Phil Sims, not known for much of being a passer, like we see today , he was simply asked to make the right throws hand off to the backs and let the defense win the game. Sound familiar ? That year the Giants had a stout d great linebackers and a vicious front d-line. Headed by  linebackers,Lawrence Taylor ,  Pepper Johnson, Carl Banks  and big Leonard Marshal up front the defense allowed little points and little yardage. The secondary wasn't really great, but the front 7 was just deadly, Myron Guyton was the lone big name in the secondary.

On offense Mark Ingram was the main wr threat, Ottis Anderson and Dave Megget ,the ultimate do it all back, and Mark Bavaro the tough tight end, that was an underrated offense. If you look at it through NFL films you will see that they resemble us all the way, a tough gritty tight end, a question mark QB a power running back and a quick change of pace do it all running back, and a hard nose defense with the linebackers as it's strength. The 2011 niners are built the same way difference is we have two serious tight ends, it's funny to note Ottis Anderson attended the "U" as well. Maybe I'm looking to far ahead , but history repeats itself, and although the league seems to be all about pass pass pass, I'm a firm believer you still can do it the old fashion way with defense and hard running. The Giants in that Super Bowl faced the K-Gun offense, but the high percentage let your receiver do the work short pass , and power run game slowed Kelly and the Bills down and smashed mouth their way to a win. Oh and Matt Bahr, like Akers was an efficient kicker, time will tell if our season turns out quite like theirs but do your homework! And I'm sure you will see lots of similarities , hopefully the major similarity will be the ending of the Super Bowl 25 Giants.

Originally posted by CUZO49:

91 Giants '11 Niners

In 1991 the Giants played the Buffalo bills in Super Bowl 26, even though the Giants defeated my beloved Niners to get there in a championship game that would have given us a 3peat, it's the Giants of 91 this 2011 niner teams resembles. Jeff Hosteler had taken over for the injured Phil Sims, not known for much of being a passer, like we see today , he was simply asked to make the right throws hand off to the backs and let the defense win the game. Sound familiar ? That year the Giants had a stout d great linebackers and a vicious front d-line. Headed by �linebackers,Lawrence Taylor , �Pepper Johnson, Carl Banks �and big Leonard Marshal up front the defense allowed little points and little yardage. The secondary wasn't really great, but the front 7 was just deadly, Myron Guyton was the lone big name in the secondary.

On offense Mark Ingram was the main wr threat, Ottis Anderson and Dave Megget ,the ultimate do it all back, and Mark Bavaro the tough tight end, that was an underrated offense. If you look at it through NFL films you will see that they resemble us all the way, a tough gritty tight end, a question mark QB a power running back and a quick change of pace do it all running back, and a hard nose defense with the linebackers as it's strength. The 2011 niners are built the same way difference is we have two serious tight ends, it's funny to note Ottis Anderson attended the "U" as well. Maybe I'm looking to far ahead , but history repeats itself, and although the league seems to be all about pass pass pass, I'm a firm believer you still can do it the old fashion way with defense and hard running. The Giants in that Super Bowl faced the K-Gun offense, but the high percentage let your receiver do the work short pass , and power run game slowed Kelly and the Bills down and smashed mouth their way to a win. Oh and Matt Bahr, like Akers was an efficient kicker, time will tell if our season turns out quite like theirs but do your homework! And I'm sure you will see lots of similarities , hopefully the major similarity will be the ending of the Super Bowl 25 Giants.

Good post

1. Montana 42. Elway 23 Aikman 34.Stabauch 25. Bart Star 26. Brady 37. Rothelisberger 28. Bradshaw 4(not elite, but I'll give him a pass for 4 rings)


Has anyone really taken a good look at Elway's numbers? Do it. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

Look at Bart Starr's while you're at it.

I don't think Aikman was "elite" either... a good game manager with a stellar scheme and team around him, perhaps.

Don't really see Big Ben as "elite" either... good... but elite? meh...

Originally posted by oldman9er:
1. Montana 42. Elway 23 Aikman 34.Stabauch 25. Bart Star 26. Brady 37. Rothelisberger 28. Bradshaw 4(not elite, but I'll give him a pass for 4 rings)


Has anyone really taken a good look at Elway's numbers? Do it. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

Look at Bart Starr's while you're at it.

I don't think Aikman was "elite" either... a good game manager with a stellar scheme and team around him, perhaps.

Don't really see Big Ben as "elite" either... good... but elite? meh...

A "good" QB wouldn't have been able to throw that ball to Santonio with 4 seconds left in the super bowl. /discussion on Roethlisburger being elite. I had to name the top 4 qbs in the league at this very moment in order it would be Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisburger, Manning. Manning is #4 because he can't move and despite his freakish ability to outcoach the other team from center I would take any one of the 3 other guys because they can at least move escape pressure.

Did read lol

Good post dude but since we've experienced eliteness at the QB level, that's what were always going to want at that position. It's unfair but that's how it's always going to be.

This stat is completely useless without the context of time. The league has evolved to favor the ability to pass, so much so that any team lacking an elite qb would be against all odds to win the Super Bowl.

Let's look at the recent years (the true "stat" to use when measuring the necessity for elite or atleast Pro Bowl caliber qb's)

1998- John Elway
1999- John Elway
2000- Kurt Warner
2001- Trent Dilfer
2002- Tom Brady
2003- Brad Johnson
2004 Tom Brady
2005- Tom Brady
2006- Ben Rapeberger
2007- Peyton Manning
2008- Eli Manning
2009- Ben Rapesberger
2010- Drew Brees
2011- Aaron Rodgers


11 out of the past 14 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were elite, Pro Bowl caliber quarterbacks. The only three exceptions happened to be exceptions because they all possessed defenses that would rank in the top 5 over the past 15 years (Ravens, Bucs, Giants). These were defenses that in many cases (such as the Bucs and Ravens) often had to outscore their own offense. Yes, you don't NEED an elite qb, but the only way to win without one is to have an extra 5 or so elite players to compensate. With the disparity of today's NFL, it is a much bigger miracle (and much more costly) accumulating those 5 extra elite players than it is to land a franchise qb. So yes, elite qb's are essential.

My fault I missed the multiple Super Bowl remark.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
How can I take this post seriously when you're stating that Rodgers, Manning, Steve Young and Brees do not qualify as elite quarterbacks.

Originally posted by CUZO49:
In the 46 Super Bowls played there have been only 8 "elite" QBs to win multiple Super Bowls, they are...

Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:

This stat is completely useless without the context of time. The league has evolved to favor the ability to pass, so much so that any team lacking an elite qb would be against all odds to win the Super Bowl.

Let's look at the recent years (the true "stat" to use when measuring the necessity for elite or atleast Pro Bowl caliber qb's)

1998- John Elway
1999- John Elway
2000- Kurt Warner
2001- Trent Dilfer
2002- Tom Brady
2003- Brad Johnson
2004 Tom Brady
2005- Tom Brady
2006- Ben Rapeberger
2007- Peyton Manning
2008- Eli Manning
2009- Ben Rapesberger
2010- Drew Brees
2011- Aaron Rodgers


11 out of the past 14 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks were elite, Pro Bowl caliber quarterbacks. The only three exceptions happened to be exceptions because they all possessed defenses that would rank in the top 5 over the past 15 years (Ravens, Bucs, Giants). These were defenses that in many cases (such as the Bucs and Ravens) often had to outscore their own offense. Yes, you don't NEED an elite qb, but the only way to win without one is to have an extra 5 or so elite players to compensate. With the disparity of today's NFL, it is a much bigger miracle (and much more costly) accumulating those 5 extra elite players than it is to land a franchise qb. So yes, elite qb's are essential.

You are off by a year, just sayin. But I get it

Originally posted by CUZO49:
91 Giants '11 Niners

In 1991 the Giants played the Buffalo bills in Super Bowl 26, even though the Giants defeated my beloved Niners to get there in a championship game that would have given us a 3peat, it's the Giants of 91 this 2011 niner teams resembles. Jeff Hosteler had taken over for the injured Phil Sims, not known for much of being a passer, like we see today , he was simply asked to make the right throws hand off to the backs and let the defense win the game. Sound familiar ? That year the Giants had a stout d great linebackers and a vicious front d-line. Headed by linebackers,Lawrence Taylor , Pepper Johnson, Carl Banks and big Leonard Marshal up front the defense allowed little points and little yardage. The secondary wasn't really great, but the front 7 was just deadly, Myron Guyton was the lone big name in the secondary.

On offense Mark Ingram was the main wr threat, Ottis Anderson and Dave Megget ,the ultimate do it all back, and Mark Bavaro the tough tight end, that was an underrated offense. If you look at it through NFL films you will see that they resemble us all the way, a tough gritty tight end, a question mark QB a power running back and a quick change of pace do it all running back, and a hard nose defense with the linebackers as it's strength. The 2011 niners are built the same way difference is we have two serious tight ends, it's funny to note Ottis Anderson attended the "U" as well. Maybe I'm looking to far ahead , but history repeats itself, and although the league seems to be all about pass pass pass, I'm a firm believer you still can do it the old fashion way with defense and hard running. The Giants in that Super Bowl faced the K-Gun offense, but the high percentage let your receiver do the work short pass , and power run game slowed Kelly and the Bills down and smashed mouth their way to a win. Oh and Matt Bahr, like Akers was an efficient kicker, time will tell if our season turns out quite like theirs but do your homework! And I'm sure you will see lots of similarities , hopefully the major similarity will be the ending of the Super Bowl 25 Giants.

Are you suggesting that LT is as good as Aldon Smith? Heresy!!

You can win without one. It's just harder in today's passing league. All the rule changes for over a decade and a half have favored QB's, offsense and scoring at the expense of defense. Making QB's a more powerful part of the game. The Ravens and Bucs in the somewhat modern era (albeit not super recent) proved you can win one without a top QB.

I think the poster boy for not needing an "elite" QB to win the SBowl is Trent Dilfer. He was solid, not a big arm but could make the occasional deep pass. He managed games - so yeah it isn't a necessity.

Originally posted by sfout:
A "good" QB wouldn't have been able to throw that ball to Santonio with 4 seconds left in the super bowl. /discussion on Roethlisburger being elite. I had to name the top 4 qbs in the league at this very moment in order it would be Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisburger, Manning. Manning is #4 because he can't move and despite his freakish ability to outcoach the other team from center I would take any one of the 3 other guys because they can at least move escape pressure.

That's terrible. Big Ben over a healthy Manning??

You need an elite QB to be a dynasty. A one-and-done Super Bowl is for chumpstains.