Who stays and who goes....

Well done SofaKing! Thanks for the context and stats.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Well done SofaKing! Thanks for the context and stats.

No prob! I liked your post on McFadden. Didn't have any expectations for him when we brought him in, but he was pretty decent. Should definitely get a chance to make the team this summer.

I'm expecting we have to decide between Cully and Cox. Won't re-sign both. My guess is we'll re-sign Culliver. There is already a financial commitment to Brock, and he's penciled in at LCB. Culliver played really well at RCB on a full-time basis, first time he's done that. Ward coming back to be the slot CB, and he was getting better every week. Then we got Johnson, Acker, Reaser, and any other players we add. We should be in good shape.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Well done SofaKing! Thanks for the context and stats.

No prob! I liked your post on McFadden. Didn't have any expectations for him when we brought him in, but he was pretty decent. Should definitely get a chance to make the team this summer.

I'm expecting we have to decide between Cully and Cox. Won't re-sign both. My guess is we'll re-sign Culliver. There is already a financial commitment to Brock, and he's penciled in at LCB. Culliver played really well at RCB on a full-time basis, first time he's done that. Ward coming back to be the slot CB, and he was getting better every week. Then we got Johnson, Acker, Reaser, and any other players we add. We should be in good shape.

If we sign one of the two we will be fine if we sign both (doubtful) we will be in great shape.

I hope we can resign Cook on the Cheap too.

Originally posted by deepniner:
was Vernon Davis the problem, or was it CK being unable to find him or GR unable to call plays to get him the ball?

not willing to blame it all on vernon. if no one throws him the ball how is he supposed to show up on the highlight swhen he doesnt get passes his way?

Originally posted by CityKing415:
I just want Gore/Iupati/Cully/Cox/Smith back. Maybe Skuta on a 1 year. Let Crabs walk

If we bring in a zone blocking scheme iupati is dead weight.

Originally posted by CullyInTheHouse:
LMAO!!! Think about this, Culliver allowed 468 yards, while Cox allowed almost DOUBLE that! And you're worried about allowing TDs? Do you even know the type of TDs Culliver allowed in the RZ? Two of the four TDs allowed came off the one or two yard line where it is impossible for the CB to cover. Usually the offensive player engages first with Aldon and then releases the last second. Again though, keep up good the fight about Cox putting in that work!!!!

So cox covered the better recievers. And played 125 more snaps to weaken your yards statement a little. I personally think cox is getting into his stride now. He was out of football for a false conviction for what two years. But was very promising when drafted. Plus he has return ability. Cox beasted this year. Cully was very good but he didn't get noticed because as much as cox due to pd and picks. I would put cox slightly ahead to my opinion of just hiting his stride now after his absence

Originally posted by leakyfausett:
I hope we can resign Cook on the Cheap too.

I don't see why not. Probably a 1yr deal worth league minimum, or around like $900K to $1M. Would be good camp competition for the CB spot.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Cox was also covering the #1 WR every game of the season. That's probably why he allowed more yards, and was thrown at a little more.

I thought both Cox and Cully played very well this season. We don't have to support one by bashing the other. They're good players.

That's not true at all. When was Cox actually following a particular WR? He wasn't, they play sides and cover whoever comes there way. This thing about covering #1 WRs is nothing but a myth. Only a few times actually have their CBs follow #1 WRs, but most don't including SEA.

Originally posted by SofaKing:


Cully had a nice year. Very good coverage numbers across the board. I'd feel comfortable with him if he moved back to LCB.

Cox probably had the tougher assignment on a weekly basis, so I can understand his coverage stats not being as strong. But he had a pretty good year too.

Originally posted by CullyInTheHouse:
.....
Cox was thrown at 96 times, allowed 59 catches, 830 yards, 3 TDs 5 INTs, QB rating 78.0.

Culliver was thrown at 73 times, allowed 37 catches for 468 yards, 4 TDs 4 INTs, QB rating 66.5.
.....

Thanks for posting those. I'm surprised Cully graded so much more positively than Cox and by Cox's negative in pass coverage.

With NC's mention of the contracts, there are young unknowns waiting. It might be a position that won't be spent on with large contracts, only Brock which isn't large. So perhaps neither Cully or Cox are kept.

With RMac and possibly Justin gone, some cap can be spent on the CBs now. Keep at least one and hope Brock trains hard in the offseason in preparation for next season. A healthy Brock with either Cully or Cox on the other side can hold their own.

In my observation, Cully is easily the better man coverage defender and played well when lined up in press alignment. He has trouble (hesitation) when asked to pattern match. I also see more blown coverages on his side of the field although I'm never sure which player's fault it is. Cox is a smart player and understands Fangio's coverage concepts. He is quicker and more accurate when watching the play unfold in off coverage. Cox is not as athletic as Cully and it shows when he's asked to play tight man. These two are rather different types of CBs. All this may figure into who is rated higher to the team.

Originally posted by CullyInTheHouse:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Cox was also covering the #1 WR every game of the season. That's probably why he allowed more yards, and was thrown at a little more.

I thought both Cox and Cully played very well this season. We don't have to support one by bashing the other. They're good players.

That's not true at all. When was Cox actually following a particular WR? He wasn't, they play sides and cover whoever comes there way. This thing about covering #1 WRs is nothing but a myth. Only a few times actually have their CBs follow #1 WRs, but most don't including SEA.

Nowhere did I say he shadowed WRs. He primarily lined up at LCB. Teams have a tendency to put their top WR on his side, because most QBs are right handed and naturally look that direction instead of throwing across the body. Cox did not shadow his man when he went to the slot, but that's not the point. He covered the #1 WR far more than Culliver. It's a fact, just watch the film.

Originally posted by thl408:
Thanks for posting those. I'm surprised Cully graded so much more positively than Cox and by Cox's negative in pass coverage.

With NC's mention of the contracts, there are young unknowns waiting. It might be a position that won't be spent on with large contracts, only Brock which isn't large. So perhaps neither Cully or Cox are kept.

With RMac and possibly Justin gone, some cap can be spent on the CBs now. Keep at least one and hope Brock trains hard in the offseason in preparation for next season. A healthy Brock with either Cully or Cox on the other side can hold their own.

In my observation, Cully is easily the better man coverage defender and played well when lined up in press alignment. He has trouble (hesitation) when asked to pattern match. I also see more blown coverages on his side of the field although I'm never sure which player's fault it is. Cox is a smart player and understands Fangio's coverage concepts. He is quicker and more accurate when watching the play unfold in off coverage. Cox is not as athletic as Cully and it shows when he's asked to play tight man. These two are rather different types of CBs. All this may figure into who is rated higher to the team.

Agree. Cully is definitely the better athlete and in man coverage, but was more mistake prone. Cox was steady and dependable. Even when he got beat, he typically had good coverage.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Nowhere did I say he shadowed WRs. He primarily lined up at LCB. Teams have a tendency to put their top WR on his side, because most QBs are right handed and naturally look that direction instead of throwing across the body. Cox did not shadow his man when he went to the slot, but that's not the point. He covered the #1 WR far more than Culliver. It's a fact, just watch the film.

You just said he was covering the #1 WR every game of the season. Well, in that case so was Cully. It is not about him covering the #1 WR more than Cully, as I bet the difference was minimal. Now a days teams use their #1 WR in slot quite a bit and Cox did not move inside unless someone was hurt. The difference in their production has little to do with the amount of time they spent covering the #1 WR. The difference is Cox is more of a risk taker so he's going to allow a lot more big plays trying to make one himself. How many times did he get beat deep? Plenty, and you know why? Because he would let the WR get inside of him trying to bait the QB but he just couldn't get there. Cully plays tighter coverage and in result will allow less catches. He still gets beat from time to time when he doesn't get his head around on time. But as the season went on he started to play like he did in 2012 when he was the best CB on the team.

Originally posted by CullyInTheHouse:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Nowhere did I say he shadowed WRs. He primarily lined up at LCB. Teams have a tendency to put their top WR on his side, because most QBs are right handed and naturally look that direction instead of throwing across the body. Cox did not shadow his man when he went to the slot, but that's not the point. He covered the #1 WR far more than Culliver. It's a fact, just watch the film.

You just said he was covering the #1 WR every game of the season. Well, in that case so was Cully. It is not about him covering the #1 WR more than Cully, as I bet the difference was minimal. Now a days teams use their #1 WR in slot quite a bit and Cox did not move inside unless someone was hurt. The difference in their production has little to do with the amount of time they spent covering the #1 WR. The difference is Cox is more of a risk taker so he's going to allow a lot more big plays trying to make one himself. How many times did he get beat deep? Plenty, and you know why? Because he would let the WR get inside of him trying to bait the QB but he just couldn't get there. Cully plays tighter coverage and in result will allow less catches. He still gets beat from time to time when he doesn't get his head around on time. But as the season went on he started to play like he did in 2012 when he was the best CB on the team.

Agree to disagree.

Every team positions their top corner at LCB in base defense for a reason. Sherman, Revis, V. Davis, Talib....they are all LCB. It's a tougher assignment. It's usually the strong side of the formation, allowing the receiver to be off the LOS, getting a free release, and has the option to motion into the slot. That's why #1 WRs tend to play on that side. Culliver is typically on the weakside of the formation. The WR he's facing is on the LOS, making it easier for him to press and get tight coverage right from the snap.

So I know Culliver's numbers are better. I'm not saying one guy is better than the other. Maybe you can switch Cully to the other side full-time and he'd ball out. I'm just saying the numbers don't tell the whole story when their roles are not the same.

Of course, but the numbers were so much superior for one guy it was clear to see who had the better season. Culliver had the same type of season in 2012 playing LCB and Fangio said last year he prefers to play that side. Cox was beat by most WRs that weren't even #1 WRs for opposing teams. Like the SD game, he made Inman look like he was Julio Jones. Cox had a great start but clearly sputtered after the bye week. Funny enough, he did better when we had no pass rush at all LOL.