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Randy Moss to retire
Aug 1, 2011 at 5:34 PM
- blizzuntz
- Veteran
- Posts: 48,025
Jerry Rice records now safer!!
Aug 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM
- blizzuntz
- Veteran
- Posts: 48,025
Jerry Rice records now safer!!
Aug 1, 2011 at 5:49 PM
Aug 1, 2011 at 6:33 PM
- Niner_Wolf
- Veteran
- Posts: 514
Originally posted by SofaKing:Originally posted by area49:Originally posted by susweel:Originally posted by Kolohe:
Jerry Rices records is safe.
Yup
So basically the only reason anyone considers Rice the GOAT is because Moss decided not to shatter all of his records. I guess it's like Barry vs. Emmitt. Barry was clearly more talented and, for all intents and purposes, better. He just didn't put up the stats that Emmitt did.
Wrong. You can't compare Randy with Barry. Barry was still productive when he retired, and could have been the all-time leading rusher if he played longer.
Moss on the other hand saw his production plummet. Why? He no longer possesses the speed that made him such a dangerous deep threat. He is a one-trick pony. Always has been. He chose to retire because he can't do it anymore, and the rest of the NFL thinks he is done.
Had Jerry Rice been a FA at 34 years old, every team in the NFL would line up for his services. Even if Moss stuck around until 40 like Rice did, he still would not touch Jerry's records. He lacks the complete game to stay productive into his late 30's. Moss can't hold Jerry's jock strap.
Good post, I agree with everything. It is all "SofaKing" TRUE!!!
Aug 1, 2011 at 7:05 PM
- jimrat
- Veteran
- Posts: 23,413
ESPN's Mark Schlereth was saying he doesn't think he is going to retire and is going to come back at a certain point during the season.
Aug 1, 2011 at 8:11 PM
- Slash49
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,537
T.O >>>>>> Randy "I only know how to run 2 routes" Moss
Aug 1, 2011 at 8:12 PM
- ItsKapTime
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,021
Originally posted by Slash49:
T.O >>>>>> Randy "I only know how to run 2 routes" Moss
Aug 2, 2011 at 10:33 AM
- midrdan
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,982
Originally posted by Niner_Wolf:Originally posted by SofaKing:Originally posted by area49:Originally posted by susweel:Originally posted by Kolohe:
Jerry Rices records is safe.
Yup
So basically the only reason anyone considers Rice the GOAT is because Moss decided not to shatter all of his records. I guess it's like Barry vs. Emmitt. Barry was clearly more talented and, for all intents and purposes, better. He just didn't put up the stats that Emmitt did.
Wrong. You can't compare Randy with Barry. Barry was still productive when he retired, and could have been the all-time leading rusher if he played longer.
Moss on the other hand saw his production plummet. Why? He no longer possesses the speed that made him such a dangerous deep threat. He is a one-trick pony. Always has been. He chose to retire because he can't do it anymore, and the rest of the NFL thinks he is done.
Had Jerry Rice been a FA at 34 years old, every team in the NFL would line up for his services. Even if Moss stuck around until 40 like Rice did, he still would not touch Jerry's records. He lacks the complete game to stay productive into his late 30's. Moss can't hold Jerry's jock strap.
Good post, I agree with everything. It is all "SofaKing" TRUE!!!
Moss accomplished a hell of a lot with that one trick. Aside from a couple years with Brady he posted BIG numbers with less than stellar QBs throwing him the ball. I don't buy that his physical skills have diminished. The guy ran a 4.3 last off season. Teams are tired of his act, the fact that he takes plays off, the disruption he causes off the field - that's why Moss didn't receive the offers he thought he was worth. Believe me, based on pure talent Moss would be the most sought after free agent this year. H
Aug 2, 2011 at 11:24 AM
- LA9erFan
- Veteran
- Posts: 66,021
Originally posted by midrdan:Originally posted by Niner_Wolf:Originally posted by SofaKing:Originally posted by area49:Originally posted by susweel:Originally posted by Kolohe:
Jerry Rices records is safe.
Yup
So basically the only reason anyone considers Rice the GOAT is because Moss decided not to shatter all of his records. I guess it's like Barry vs. Emmitt. Barry was clearly more talented and, for all intents and purposes, better. He just didn't put up the stats that Emmitt did.
Wrong. You can't compare Randy with Barry. Barry was still productive when he retired, and could have been the all-time leading rusher if he played longer.
Moss on the other hand saw his production plummet. Why? He no longer possesses the speed that made him such a dangerous deep threat. He is a one-trick pony. Always has been. He chose to retire because he can't do it anymore, and the rest of the NFL thinks he is done.
Had Jerry Rice been a FA at 34 years old, every team in the NFL would line up for his services. Even if Moss stuck around until 40 like Rice did, he still would not touch Jerry's records. He lacks the complete game to stay productive into his late 30's. Moss can't hold Jerry's jock strap.
Good post, I agree with everything. It is all "SofaKing" TRUE!!!
Moss accomplished a hell of a lot with that one trick. Aside from a couple years with Brady he posted BIG numbers with less than stellar QBs throwing him the ball. I don't buy that his physical skills have diminished. The guy ran a 4.3 last off season. Teams are tired of his act, the fact that he takes plays off, the disruption he causes off the field - that's why Moss didn't receive the offers he thought he was worth. Believe me, based on pure talent Moss would be the most sought after free agent this year. H
I'm a big basketball guy, and Moss reminds me of Shaq. He was a one trick pony, an underachiever who could exhibit extreme laziness...
...and he's still retiring as arguably the 2nd best WR that ever lived despite not coming all that close to fulfilling his potential.
Aug 9, 2011 at 8:59 PM
- area49
- Member
- Posts: 1,315
Originally posted by SofaKing:Originally posted by area49:Originally posted by susweel:Originally posted by Kolohe:
Jerry Rices records is safe.
Yup
So basically the only reason anyone considers Rice the GOAT is because Moss decided not to shatter all of his records. I guess it's like Barry vs. Emmitt. Barry was clearly more talented and, for all intents and purposes, better. He just didn't put up the stats that Emmitt did.
Wrong. You can't compare Randy with Barry. Barry was still productive when he retired, and could have been the all-time leading rusher if he played longer.
Moss on the other hand saw his production plummet. Why? He no longer possesses the speed that made him such a dangerous deep threat. He is a one-trick pony. Always has been. He chose to retire because he can't do it anymore, and the rest of the NFL thinks he is done.
Had Jerry Rice been a FA at 34 years old, every team in the NFL would line up for his services. Even if Moss stuck around until 40 like Rice did, he still would not touch Jerry's records. He lacks the complete game to stay productive into his late 30's. Moss can't hold Jerry's jock strap.
Did you ever wonder WHY Jerry put up such great stats? Don't you think it might have had something to do with playing in a pass-happy offense QB'd by two hall-of-famers? The fact that Irvin, who played in a run-oriented offense led by a QB who wasn't as good as Montana, and Moss, who played with no-names like Daunte Culpepper, could perform as well as they did should tell you that they're at least as good as Rice, if not better. Let me put it like this. If Rice and either Irvin or Moss switched places, would Rice have put up the same numbers? Would Irvin/Moss?
Aug 10, 2011 at 9:33 AM
- jimrat
- Veteran
- Posts: 23,413
Originally posted by area49:
Did you ever wonder WHY Jerry put up such great stats? Don't you think it might have had something to do with playing in a pass-happy offense QB'd by two hall-of-famers? The fact that Irvin, who played in a run-oriented offense led by a QB who wasn't as good as Montana, and Moss, who played with no-names like Daunte Culpepper, could perform as well as they did should tell you that they're at least as good as Rice, if not better. Let me put it like this. If Rice and either Irvin or Moss switched places, would Rice have put up the same numbers? Would Irvin/Moss?
I didn't Skip Bayless was a member.
Aug 10, 2011 at 9:51 AM
- area49
- Member
- Posts: 1,315
Originally posted by jimrat201:
I didn't Skip Bayless was a member.
Can you really refute what he says?
Aug 10, 2011 at 10:59 AM
- jimrat
- Veteran
- Posts: 23,413
Originally posted by area49:Can you really refute what he says?
Jerry Rice had Jeff Kemp and Mike Moroski start 8 games at QB for the injured Joe Montana in 1986 and had 1500+ yards, what does that tell you.
[ Edited by jimrat201 on Aug 10, 2011 at 12:07 PM ]
Aug 10, 2011 at 6:47 PM
- candlestick49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 187
Originally posted by area49:
Did you ever wonder WHY Jerry put up such great stats?
No. His incredible work ethic, great hands, amazing route running, football intelligence, and ability to get open despite double/triple coverage made it obvious why he put up great stats.
Originally posted by area49:
Don't you think it might have had something to do with playing in a pass-happy offense QB'd by two hall-of-famers?
Rice was productive with other QBs as well. And since we were a pass-happy offense, defenses made it a priority to defend the pass. This means that Rice had to face double/triple coverage consistently on most plays.
Originally posted by area49:
The fact that Irvin, who played in a run-oriented offense led by a QB who wasn't as good as Montana, and Moss, who played with no-names like Daunte Culpepper, could perform as well as they did should tell you that they're at least as good as Rice, if not better.
Irvin faced his share of double coverage, but defenses mainly focused on stopping Emmitt Smith. When defenses stacked the box to shut down Dallas' running game, it gave Irvin many 1-on-1 situations. Yes, being in a running offense means Irvin had less receiving opportunities...but his opportunities were more favorable considering the fact that defenses put more emphasis on stopping Emmitt. Rice got more receiving opportunities...but he had to face double/triple teams more often because defenses put more emphasis on stopping Rice.
Culpepper wasn't a great QB, but he was great at throwing the deep ball. Catching the deep ball also happens to be Moss' strength. Its no surprise that Moss put up great numbers with Culpepper.
Originally posted by area49:
Let me put it like this. If Rice and either Irvin or Moss switched places, would Rice have put up the same numbers? Would Irvin/Moss?
If Rice played in Dallas () or Minnesota, I don't think his stats would be as good as his 49ers stats...but I think he would've been more productive than Irvin & Moss.
If Irvin played in SF, I think he would be very productive. His physical style of play would translate well to our WCO. However, I'm not sure he would be as productive as Rice. Rice beat coverages with pure route-running while Irvin was notorious for pushing off. Pushing off works well if you're in a 1v1 situation, but Irvin would face consistent double/triple teams in SF.
If Moss played in SF, I think his stats would drop compared to his Vikings numbers. There's less emphasis on the deep ball and more focus on shorter routes that often go over the middle of the field. I'm not saying Moss can't play in a WCO, but his strength isn't pure route running or physical play.
Of course this is all hypothetical and its just my opinion. Moss and Irvin are obviously great players, but comparing their situations to Rice's situation doesn't prove that they were as good or better than him. However, its hard to argue that Rice isn't the GOAT when you ignore the "what ifs" and consider what he actually did in reality.
Aug 10, 2011 at 8:26 PM
- IWASATTHECATCH
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 21,931
This thread- like, oh, so many others- really makes me wonder when some of the posters here actually started watching football.