Marty Mornhinweg: “I think Michael Vick can be better than Steve Young”

Originally posted by Bille:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Bille:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Bille:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Steve Young has 4-straight passing titles; Vick cannot even complete a game with 15 or more completions (even if he wanted to).

9er fans can be so terribly biased it's sickening.

Michael Vick's career completion percentage: 55.3%

Steve Young's career completion percentage: 64.3%

And let me throw this one in there aswell

Alex Smith's career completion percentage: 57.1 %

I'd take Vick over Smith any day of the week, and so would any fan in the league. It's not even close.

I agree, but that wasn't really my point, Vick has always been a great playmaker, but he has never been more than an average passer untill last year, and I just think it is funny for someone who thinks alex smith's suckage is out of this world, that you are defending the stance that vick, whose career numbers are eerily similar to those of alex smith's, can be better than one of THE best qbs in the history of the nfl.

How exactly are his numbers similar? The only thing that's similar is their completion percentage.

And with all that said, Vick was out of football for 2 years, came back and put up pro bowl numbers with a QB rating of 100+. Something Alex has never even been close to achieving and likely never will.

In addition. Vick brings a different dynamic that Alex does not. His legs. Vick has almost as many rushing touchdowns as Alex has passing touchdowns.

Lastly, My issue with Alex are the things that stats do not show. Lack of confidence, inability to win against above average competition. Lack of consistency. Afraid take chances. 0 deep ball threat.

Vick is a winner, plain and simple. Went into Lambeau field and beat the Packers basically all by himself. What has Alex done in the playoffs? Oops.

Next thing you're going to tell me that Vick had such a wealth of talent and top head coaches.

This is why I say 9er fans are biased, because they are unable to look at things objectively. I never even liked Vick that much in Atlanta...but I would have taken a player like him over Alex any day of the week.

So go watch some clips on Vick and then watch some on Alex....and tell me that Alex is or ever was in the same category as Mike.

For a check down champion, Alex's completion % is awful.

First of all I agree vick is a much better player than smith, but not as a passer untill last year. And to compare him and even say he can be better than steve young is ridiculous.

Look at these stats and tell me which is which, i did uninclude Vick's last year which is cheating, but as I said Vick has had one good year untill now, and because of one good year, it's pretty crazy to compare him to a hall of famer.

GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT FUM RAT
86 936 1743 53,70% 11591 6,65 72 52 36 76,2
54 864 1514 57.10% 9,399 6.21 51 53 28 72.1

My point was never to say smith is as good as vick, which he is not. It was just that michael vicks career stats are a lot closer to those of smith than steve young.
I just think it is funny you are calling people homers for thinking it was a stupid thing to say of morninweg.

And I think it's funny that people have no idea what "CAN" means. If he said he IS or WILL be better than Steve then I can understand.

I don't get why you're comparing their stats as no one has said that he's presently better than Steve.

If Vick can play elite football for the next 7 years, win a ship and win a couple MVP's... He will be in the same category as Steve. Odds are this won't happen..but all Marty is saying that he has the potential to be better. Yet 9er fans are all up in arms...the same guys who compare Alex's poor start to Steve Young's. The same guys who think that the system, HOF players and HOF coaching/talent evaluators didn't help Steve and Joe put up the numbers they did.

I think Young and Montana are great, but I'm not ignorant to the fact that they played in GREAT systems with GREAT players and GREAT coaching across the board...in a crappy division.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Bille:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Bille:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Bille:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Steve Young has 4-straight passing titles; Vick cannot even complete a game with 15 or more completions (even if he wanted to).

9er fans can be so terribly biased it's sickening.

Michael Vick's career completion percentage: 55.3%

Steve Young's career completion percentage: 64.3%

And let me throw this one in there aswell

Alex Smith's career completion percentage: 57.1 %

I'd take Vick over Smith any day of the week, and so would any fan in the league. It's not even close.

I agree, but that wasn't really my point, Vick has always been a great playmaker, but he has never been more than an average passer untill last year, and I just think it is funny for someone who thinks alex smith's suckage is out of this world, that you are defending the stance that vick, whose career numbers are eerily similar to those of alex smith's, can be better than one of THE best qbs in the history of the nfl.

How exactly are his numbers similar? The only thing that's similar is their completion percentage.

And with all that said, Vick was out of football for 2 years, came back and put up pro bowl numbers with a QB rating of 100+. Something Alex has never even been close to achieving and likely never will.

In addition. Vick brings a different dynamic that Alex does not. His legs. Vick has almost as many rushing touchdowns as Alex has passing touchdowns.

Lastly, My issue with Alex are the things that stats do not show. Lack of confidence, inability to win against above average competition. Lack of consistency. Afraid take chances. 0 deep ball threat.

Vick is a winner, plain and simple. Went into Lambeau field and beat the Packers basically all by himself. What has Alex done in the playoffs? Oops.

Next thing you're going to tell me that Vick had such a wealth of talent and top head coaches.

This is why I say 9er fans are biased, because they are unable to look at things objectively. I never even liked Vick that much in Atlanta...but I would have taken a player like him over Alex any day of the week.

So go watch some clips on Vick and then watch some on Alex....and tell me that Alex is or ever was in the same category as Mike.

For a check down champion, Alex's completion % is awful.

First of all I agree vick is a much better player than smith, but not as a passer untill last year. And to compare him and even say he can be better than steve young is ridiculous.

Look at these stats and tell me which is which, i did uninclude Vick's last year which is cheating, but as I said Vick has had one good year untill now, and because of one good year, it's pretty crazy to compare him to a hall of famer.

GP CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT FUM RAT
86 936 1743 53,70% 11591 6,65 72 52 36 76,2
54 864 1514 57.10% 9,399 6.21 51 53 28 72.1

My point was never to say smith is as good as vick, which he is not. It was just that michael vicks career stats are a lot closer to those of smith than steve young.
I just think it is funny you are calling people homers for thinking it was a stupid thing to say of morninweg.

And I think it's funny that people have no idea what "CAN" means. If he said he IS or WILL be better than Steve then I can understand.

I don't get why you're comparing their stats as no one has said that he's presently better than Steve.

If Vick can play elite football for the next 7 years, win a ship and win a couple MVP's... He will be in the same category as Steve. Odds are this won't happen..but all Marty is saying that he has the potential to be better. Yet 9er fans are all up in arms...the same guys who compare Alex's poor start to Steve Young's. The same guys who think that the system, HOF players and HOF coaching/talent evaluators didn't help Steve and Joe put up the numbers they did.

I think Young and Montana are great, but I'm not ignorant to the fact that they played in GREAT systems with GREAT players and GREAT coaching across the board...in a crappy division.

You bring up my point, sort of why I was comparing their stats. The comparison people make to alex's slow start and youngs saying well he can still turn it around and have a hall of fame career. Basicly Morninweg is doing the same thing with Vick. Except Vick had a pretty good season last year, but to just expect him to continue at that level uninjured with the way he plays and him maybe losing his athletic edge over the years.
Is sort of as ridiculous as niner fans saying ohh alex can still turn into a pro bowl QB next year and win a couple of SB's.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by ace49ers:
Vick is great no doubt. But when you compare him and say he can be better then Young? Boy what ever drugs your on, I'd like to order two please.

No, Vick is not great. He's had ONE good year. That doesn't equal greatness. He has the potential and physical ability to be great, but it hasn't translated on the field outside of last season. Let's not forget he was less than average before that - even with all that physical ability.

I do agree that Vick COULD be better than Steve, or any QB in history. But is he? Absolutely not. He doesn't have it in him mentally. He doesn't make the decisions of a great QB. He doesn't have the accuracy of a great QB, either. What he does have is a pretty strong arm and the ability to evade tacklers, the latter of which is unmatched by any QB in NFL history, and he's in a good system with fantastic receiving targets that is run by a great coach.

I saw one guy make a comment about Alex Smith and Vick having similar numbers before last season and he pretty much implied that good coaching would make Alex a very good QB. That may be true, but physically, Alex Smith is nowhere near Vick's level and he won't have the speedy targets that they have in Philly, so expecting a Vick-like surge out of Alex is going overboard.

How does a less than average QB go to multiple pro-bowls?

You can't be serious.

The pro bowl is a glorified popularity contest. Fans have a partial vote. That should tell you something right there. Vick got in because he was on ESPN's highlight reel running around and juking people out of their shoes. That's great, but that's not what a QB's job is. Does that matter for pro bowl votes? Nope.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes the pro bowl gets it right - like Justin Smith getting there - but Vick did nothing as a passer to get there. As a QB, he was always less than average and it doesn't matter if he had gotten there every single year of his career.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Ether:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by 49erRider:

Originally posted by ace49ers:
Vick is great no doubt. But when you compare him and say he can be better then Young? Boy what ever drugs your on, I'd like to order two please.

No, Vick is not great. He's had ONE good year. That doesn't equal greatness. He has the potential and physical ability to be great, but it hasn't translated on the field outside of last season. Let's not forget he was less than average before that - even with all that physical ability.

I do agree that Vick COULD be better than Steve, or any QB in history. But is he? Absolutely not. He doesn't have it in him mentally. He doesn't make the decisions of a great QB. He doesn't have the accuracy of a great QB, either. What he does have is a pretty strong arm and the ability to evade tacklers, the latter of which is unmatched by any QB in NFL history, and he's in a good system with fantastic receiving targets that is run by a great coach.

I saw one guy make a comment about Alex Smith and Vick having similar numbers before last season and he pretty much implied that good coaching would make Alex a very good QB. That may be true, but physically, Alex Smith is nowhere near Vick's level and he won't have the speedy targets that they have in Philly, so expecting a Vick-like surge out of Alex is going overboard.

How does a less than average QB go to multiple pro-bowls?

Damn I forgot that the Pro Bowl wasn't based almost entirely on name recognition and popularity with the fans.

Guess Steve's 7 pro bowl selections are worthless then. Again, a below average player does not get named to pro bowls...regardless of how popular he is. Hell, what below average superstar have you ever heard of?

Young also had NFL passing titles and league MVPs. Show me the season Vick was even considered for either of those (remember we're discussing is below average days).

I never said Vick was a below average PLAYER or athlete, I said he was a below average QB. Frank Gore is a helluva player, but put him at QB and he'd probably just be a running threat. Vick wasn't much more than that, either. A QB's job is to pass the ball, and Vick wasn't very good at that.

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by Bille:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by JayBee:

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Steve Young has 4-straight passing titles; Vick cannot even complete a game with 15 or more completions (even if he wanted to).

9er fans can be so terribly biased it's sickening.

Michael Vick's career completion percentage: 55.3%

Steve Young's career completion percentage: 64.3%

And let me throw this one in there aswell

Alex Smith's career completion percentage: 57.1 %

I'd take Vick over Smith any day of the week, and so would any fan in the league. It's not even close.

After last year, sure.

Steve never gooched it and had a got damn pick at the last second when the post playoffs were on the line.

If you put Steve Youngs brain in Vicks body, sure!

Vick's stellar playing was declining during the last part of the season.

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Remember when Martz said JT O'Sullivan was the best QB he ever coached.

Wonderful!

naw

Sure hes faster and has a stronger arm but that doesnt make up for how much smarter Steve is. I'd say athletic ability Vick 60 Young 40 but in smarts Young 80 Vick 20

Originally posted by FreddyG:
Sure hes faster and has a stronger arm but that doesnt make up for how much smarter Steve is. I'd say athletic ability Vick 60 Young 40 but in smarts Young 80 Vick 20

Vick gets 20 for being smart? he went to prison