Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by elguapo:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by elguapo:
That was not only pathetic but sad....backing up your shhhhhi....yeah right. Let me quote a few coaches analysts like you did about a bad defense and magically it will all be ok. I can find countless quotes about alex smith and why he had a bad year much like you are doing for dallas d and making excuses. Sorry much like dallas d smith has performed bad because he is not that good. You my friend are in denial.
Maybe you should listen to the majority and accept that dallas d is IN FACT BAD AND A MESS and the niners d is solid.
We killed warner and co the last few times we played them and shut down their wr quite a bit. I was at the last two games with warner and our d destroyed them with little to no help from our offense. Fact.
Seek help. Denial can be an ugly thing. Heres a quote from your man sapp. Dallas is soft. Collinsworth...they cant stop the forward pass. You my friend are done. You lose. You get nothing. Good day sir
When a team spends only 2 draft picks out of 8 on it's defense, it shows it has confidence in the new coach and that the problem for the large part likely wasn't the talent but moreso the coaching.
Dallas was soft, under Wade Phillips. Was is the keyword there.
Under Rob Ryan they won't be. Different coaches, different philosophies, different methods of getting the most out of one's players. Ryan is NOT laid back, Phillips was that in itself is a big difference. The same man who said they were soft is saying they will bite this year. Why because he knows Ryan's D and his ability to coach guys up firsthand from playing for him. He has proven himself a very good DC in this league. And I am the one in denial ?
Just because they couldn't stop the forward pass doesn't mean they still can't, Ryan runs a much more aggressive style of defense and does a whole lot of things Wade Phillips does not like regularly disguising coverages, using movement before the snap and his playbook contains a wide array of blitz packages that can come from anywhere much like his brother in NY. When it comes to defense the Ryan brothers have shown to be just like their father, damn good at it.
The last 2 games Warner played vs us he threw for 288 yards and 178 yards respectively. Fitz had 6 catches for 71 yards and TD in the first game and was 2 for 22 the second time. But you said almost always and I pointed out otherwise, go look it up. FACT.
Who is this majority you speak of ? Because judging by the responses in the OP's thread in Niner Talk the majority of respected and knowledgeable veteran posters think our D is middle of the pack and still has some holes to fill for us to become a solid defense.
You must be over in Egypt right now, because you are the one in denial.
Here comes the little kid again....no you are in denial....this is quite funny.
You need to focus on how wrong you are and by the way the original point to this whole topic is dallas d is a mess and you actually had the blinded gall to say well so are the niners. WRONG you are wrong and that is the only fact here.
To say coaches are responsible for dallas d is pathetic and wrong. I got news for you. Its a small portion of why dallas d is bad its the lack of good players and talent. Bad lbs and horrible secondary......the majority of us RESPECTED and KNOWLEDGABLE FANS (mainly not you) agree you are wrong that dallas d is a mess and the niners D IS NOT A MESS and is in fact solid.
So again for the 20th time accept the FACT that dallas D is a mess and the niners on D are not. Go cry somewhere and accept the truth. I guess the reason why our secondary and every bad player on our team did poorly is because of our lack of coaching huh?????WRONG. Players like Haralson reggie smith Spencer Clements at times (yeah clements did punk Fitz recently - FACT) Alex Smith our OL players like Rachal its all coaching right??????
Wrong. As Darth Vader said....ALL Too easy.
Can you support your so called facts ? Please either back your statements up or move along. You have shown nothing to prove yourself right, NOTHING. All you keep saying is I am wrong but do nothing to support your so called facts.
And I am the little kid ? 
Show me your so called majority. Show me something that proves the Dallas personnel outside of Ratliff and Ware is poor. As Cuba Gooding once said "Show me the money Jerry!"
Until you can support what you have stated you are the one in denial and wrong.
Heres your facts and support....DALLAS DEFENSE 31ST IN POINTS ALLOWED. that by any definition is not only a mess but pathetic much like you trying to argue your points.
Just in case you DID NOT KNOW BUT THAT IS SECOND LAST IN THE LEAGUE. The niners finished 16th in points allowed. Lets do some math. 31St seems to be a mess like the original poster stated along with many other posters that agreed including me and YOU seem to be the minority in denial refuting why this FACT THAT THEIR D IS A MESS AND PERFORMED THE SECOND WORST IN THE NFL.
There you go buddy. You might want to stop posting because you are making a fool of yourself and your unsupported arguements. I havent had this much fun since grade school because its the same mentality im dealing with. Hahahahahahah.
And I pointed out that Phillips had a laid back unaggressive style of coaching and playcalling whereas Ryan is the opposite. There is a reason he was fired midseason, because like I stated the team quit on him.
I pointed out the organization showed so much confidence in the talent and coach that they spent only 2 of 8 picks on defense in the draft. The same man who called that defense soft last year under Phillips said they would bite under Ryan, WITH NO MAJOR UPGRADES made through the draft (that are expected to be day one starters). If you aren't upgrading your talent then obviously you believe the problems you suffered the season prior were mainly coaching related.
Your facts are statistics from last year which reflect the coaching, gameplanning, playcalling and use of that of the talent. My facts show that new coaching will use a completely different method of coaching, gameplanning, playcalling and use of that of the talent. And the coach has a proven track record. I have provided statements from coaches and players stating that the new system has got their juices flowing and excitement abound.
In fact I provided MUCH MUCH more fact and evidence to support my statements than you have. You are relying on 1 statistic. ONE.
The 49ers by contrast drafted a pass rusher and 3 DB's to fix glaring weaknesses on defense.You also failed to point out how we ranked 24th vs the pass, with your ole pal Nate Clements. Ranked 24th means we couldn't stop the forward pass either.
Now, show me where they have no talent outside of Ratliff and Ware ? Show me your so called majority (I can't even count on one hand the number of posters who clearly were in agreement that their defense was a mess in this thread) of knowledgeable fans (the majority of those posting in "How good is the 49ers defense" in Niner Talk seem to think we aren't a great defense like you do, and that we still have work to do, majority list question marks at multiple positions so I don't know what knowledgeable fans you are talking about). Even Matt Maiocco just wrote a piece entitled "Uncertainty abounds 49ers defense".
Maybe you can also explain why you have refrained from any further posting in the "How good is the 49ers defense" thread since all the vets came out and seemingly have a different viewpoint from yours ? Are you afraid to debate with multiple posters in one thread who feel differently than you do ?
SIDENOTE - Please refrain from the attacks by referring to my mentality as being that of a grade schooler, because you sound like a pot calling the kettle black with insults like that. There is no need to stoop to attacks unless you are truly in denial and realize your painted into a corner you can't get out of. It is against the rules of the site, and if you can't debate a point with me in a mature and civil fashion then you should just refrain from responding.
This is exactly why your arguments are a joke......Many of the posters in this thread have in fact said that the niners D is good....not great......and you referred to it as it may be just a mess like dallas....which is even a bigger joke.
And in the thread where i havent refrained from posting how good is the niners d? actually a lot of posters have NOT said its a mess nearly like you have and i bet no one or a few would say the niners d is not CLEARLY better than the cowboys...
Here is the problem with people like you....You cant accept the truth and cant admit when they are wrong. It is pathetic. I wasnt saying the niners D was great overall but great in certain areas and A LOT BETTER THAN DALLAS D. You have no facts...at least i do you do not. All you have is the completely insane statement which is.....
Dallas has switched coordinators and they gave up on their coach???????? You have to admit that is an excuse and you are completely wrong. I gave a solid stat ACTUALLY THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE that describes a DEFENSE points given up and Dallas was 2ND TO LAST...I REPEAT 31st....AGAIN 31ST. You must be crazy when your only answer to that fact is...well that was last year. Yeah well than the niners offense switched offensive coordinators so they are no longer 26th they are great because they gave up on the coach and their offense IS GOING (keyword is speculation...ie you dont know jack...translation not one FACT you have presented). As a matter a fact the only fact you posted is they switched DC.
With your logic....EVERY TEAM that sucked in an area on offense and defense that got a new coordinator and some quotes and articles that are filled with SPECULATION NOT FACTS.....is going to be better than the teams that rated better than them last year because according to your GUESSING.......they just are....hey that was last year.
Well i guess the niners are going to be 10th on offense and 1st on defense because of the new coordinators and a few articles stating harbaugh is a great coach and offensive mind and a qb whisperer.....DO YOU NOW SEE HOW RIDICULOUS YOU ARE and your non factual arguments. This one is the kicker. Your point which is assumption at best stating that dallas did not draft help on D does mean they are good and confident in their current players is COMPLETELY WRONG. That would be like saying that since the niners have not drafted a qb in recent years or another cb or an olb means they were happy and didnt need help....WRONG. The niners knew they needed a better qb, cb, olb, wr and still did not get one.
So why dont you act like an adult not a child and admit you are wrong about
1)the niners d is NOT a mess as much as dallas
2) dallas d is IN FACT A MESS CURRENTLY
3)acknowledging the fact that my fact about Dallas D being horrible 31st is accurate and you cant assume its not the truth b/c if you dont then i will just state that the niners offense is less of a mess or the same as dallas....a team which ranked MUCH BETTER last year......because we got new oc and coaches and the stats last year was simply LAST YEAR....they gave up on their coach offensively.
4)Just because a team does not draft a position DOES NOT i repeat DOES NOT mean they are satisfied with their players...it could mean they did not want to reach, they have better value in the draft or want to address it through free agency.
Seek help please
I like how you make stuff up as you go along.
Quote:
Many of the posters in this thread have in fact said that the niners D is good
Only Pirate Pete said the Niner D is good in this thread.
If we look at the "How good is the 49ers defense thread" here are some responses from respected and or knowledgeable posters
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
It's not too bad at some spots but worse than most WZers believe.
Missing:
~ SS
~ FS
~ CB
~ CB
~ OLB pass rusher - unproven at the pro level.
That's not a great defense. There are some good D Linemen and 1 great LB and a few other good LB's.
Originally posted by nflguy49:
The Niners lack a true shutdown corner (the Niners cbs are poor)) and a passrusher that makes the other team worry. The defense won't be very good when it matters against good teams until those two problems are fixed.
Originally posted by SF4EVA:
Our D is overrated on this boad due to the fac that the O is so bad we need something to hang our hat on. WE need a passrush very bad. Period. We led the league in TOP for a reason. We could not stop anyone. weather it was early or late in games. there were way too many times we gave up 3rd and extra long last season. That aint the O fault. we just could not get to the QB fast enough. Pressure means s**t if it aint making the QB uncomfortable.
Hopefully the passrush issue will be fixed with the addition of AS. Nate already knows hes about to get a Alex smith type second deal. 1 or 2 yr at the most. Which will really allow us to spend on out NT situation. All in all we are middle of the road until they show otherwise.
Originally posted by Antix:
Personally, I dont think its that good.
Our line is our best unit and we have one great LBer. I think we need not go into great lengths about how bad our secondary is (though I believe a lot of it had to do with scheme and not playing to our CBs strength)
Honestly though, I feel we are one good/great pass rusher away from being a top 5-8 D with good coaching. I know our pass rush stats are decent as a team but we need somebody who can terrorize. If we had that then we'd be able to get pressure from all angles and really be able to help our secondary out
This league is all about QBs: having them and sacking them.
Originally posted by RonMexico:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
It's not too bad at some spots but worse than most WZers believe.
Missing:
~ SS
~ FS
~ CB
~ CB
~ OLB pass rusher - unproven at the pro level.
That's not a great defense. There are some good D Linemen and 1 great LB and a few other good LB's.
this
Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
I would say not very good. Our weaknesses definately outweigh our strengths. We are a great run-stopping team, but a weak pash rush and ball skill team. I don't think im saying anything no one else here has seen.
We just have slow players at key positions like safety and corner, so we consistently get beat, especially when we get even a small dose of pressure.
This could be an interesting year as we lose franklin, and then we have aldon smith, and ray mcdonald who will get more playing time. I think this year we will improve greatly on those fronts. Also, lawson is gone...so that opens a whole for either brooks, smith, or bowman to get in there.
Originally posted by valrod33:
not as good as we think it is
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, tough to say (now). And like many things, it's hard to determine anything at this point d/t poor coaching (everything from practice discipline - you saw the videos, poor techniques, no team tackling, piss poor pass rushing skills, players playing 1/2 speed, very little emotion, etc.) to individual poor skill-sets, constant scheme issues, being outcoached, zero adjustments, very very very predictable, constantly falling on their faces when it mattered, no big plays, padding of/meaningless stats, very few TO's, players in a 3-4 who'd fit better in a 4-3, very little, if any development of players, regression, lack of true leadership, organization, self-coaching, etc.
I personally feel this defense has been given a free pass by many b/c in San Francisico, the offense is always the most visible but it was the old 9er defenses that were tops in the league and helped to win us five trophies.
This defense is NOT very good at all. So I was a little disappointed that Fangio didn't pass out his playbook and assign a leader (see, Harbaugh and Alex Smith) to organize educational activities b/c truly, his defense is the equivalent of learning a WCO. Instead we see little, if any word from defensive players save for hitting the gym and guys like Spikes talking about his objection to such activities. No word from Willis and Smith. I heard more from Aldon Smith this offseason.
Over the years, the organization has spent numerous first round picks on defense, brought in key FA's at key positions and paid top dollars to do it. Its essentially been the same exact Nolan/Manusky 3-4 defense, with the same exact personnel and the same exact coach for 5 years now and they've regressed in just about every area possible and never established anything more than a vanilla 3-4, at best.
Hopefully by the end of 2011 we'll start to see a transformation and refocus on the heart of what a 3-4 defense was designed for...an added focus on pass rush and dictating the offense, more TO's, better tactics, game-planning, in-game adjustments, team tackling, better fundamentals, less critical errors and shooting themselves in the foot, a defense that is learning how to win and not lose games when it matters, players stepping up and finding FT roles and growing into these speciality positions, developing, playing with some passion and heart, etc...all things that used to represent the "heart of San Francisco football!"
Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
Not that great we need to upgrade the Cornerback position along with a couple of pure bread pass rushers..............if we cant replace Aubrayo Franklin then will take more of a step backwards on defense meaning the offense will really have to step it up this year to at least stay semi competitive
Statistics only give you the what factor, they don't tell you why or how. Why and how are much more important. It's like a book, you can't judge it by it's cover, you have to actually read the book to pass a fair judgement.
And every team has to be assessed individually because of the why and how of what happened. Each team situation is different. You cannot judge teams solely based off of statistics, especially just one statistic. There is a reason behind the statistic, sometimes it is coaching, sometimes it is talent, sometimes a combination of both. In Dallas they are going from white to black or black to white (however one chooses to perceive it) in terms of coaching on defense.
Dallas allowed the 2nd fewest point total the year before with only 250 but dropped way off last year, with the same starting lineup minus FS Ken Hamlin. Same talent, different outcome. After losing 7 of the first 8 games they fired Wade. The average points per game from the first 8 games is actually 4.5 point greater than the average of the last 8 games without Wade. Slight improvement once Wade left.
As far as Dallas and free agency goes, they are going to be over the cap and will have to release talent (they have 4 names on offense and 1 on defense who seem to be most likely of being in jeopardy : Roy Williams, Marion Barber, Leonard Davis, Marc Columbo & Terrance Newman). And there has been talk of Ware and Romo restructuring their current deals to allow the team to get under the cap and have a little money for the FA market where they need a safety upgrade and have a couple players whom they need to resign. So yes the draft was pivotal for Dallas if they felt they had any major holes that needed filled on defense, they would have had to move up or down the board and look to position themselves with players who can help fill those gaps. Instead they opted to begin overhauling the OL which is in dire need of being rebuilt.
Again same starting lineup minus one average at best safety and almost the exact same depth goes from 250 points allowed to 436 point allowed. It's quite obvious the coaches feel they can get that same talent to playing at a higher level and allowing fewer points.
The proof is in the pudding. Maybe this year you will watch the games instead of just looking at statistics. And maybe you'll learn to debate in a civil fashion and quit calling someone your debating with names. Calling me a child repeatedly at the end of every one of your posts makes you look like the child but I am sure you are in denial about that too.
I'm done arguing with you because you don't know how to debate, comprehend and interpret what is being said. You are making stuff up or seeing things however you want to see them like (like saying "many in thread have said the Niners D is good" when only one other person said that) and continuously stoop to name calling instead of trying to debate the topic at hand.
[ Edited by KRS-1 on Jul 15, 2011 at 7:49 AM ]
f**king Guaps!
Its too dam easy.....As Maximus said....ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!
