The Cowboys are a mess on defense

im not to happy about our saftey situation either if goldson leaves we may have 2 new SS as well

Who cares

Originally posted by PiratePete:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by PiratePete:

Originally posted by KRS-1:
-Rotating the 3 LB's to keep them fresh doesn't make them a mess.

-Carter would have to earn a starting job even if he was healthy.

-Since there is no FA period yet, of course their are some unsettled positions like both safety spots.

One could make the same or similar assumptions about us...who is starting at NT (If Soap then who is starting opposite Smith?) ? Who is starting at WOLB ? Who starts at CB (other than Spencer) if Nate walks or gets walking papers ? Who is our starting SS ?

You only rotate MLBs because you dont have a 3 down LB. Thats an obvious glaring weakness. Brooking has played 13 seasons and is on his last leg. James has played 8 years and only amassed 26 pass def and 2 INTs. He is a huge liability in coverage. By compairison Patrick Willis has 28 pass def and 4 INTs in only 4 years. Then you have Lee who was a rookie coming off a major knee injury so he isnt much help currently.

Carter was Drafted high in the 2nd round(#40)and was touted as one of the top players at his position in the draft. I think its pretty obvious he was drafted to start for the Cowboys. Thats a huge additional blow to the lb corps.

Although you are right, everyteam is going to have unsettled positions before FA. You still never want two new starters covering the back end of your defense. Thats a huge cause for concern.

To answer your other questions....

If Soap is at NT then Justin Smith and Ray Mcdonald would be playing the ends in an up field attacking style defense. Basically 2 Justin Smiths on the field at the same time.

Manny Lawson will be starting and he isnt going anywhere.

This late in the season its going to be hard to give Nate walking papers. If they were going to do that then they would have done it when they had the chance a couple months ago. If he does walk the obvious starters would be Spencer and Brown. Both are serviceable CBs if protected by scheme.

Taylor Mays will undoubtedly be our starting SS this year. I see him playing down in the box and being a terror on saftey run and pass blitz`s. And when he isnt down in the Box playing at his strenghts. I suspect he will be playing deep center field and getting opportunities to use his speed to close in on deeps balls and throws over the middle.

My 2 cents.

Bruce Carter had ACL surgery in December. Kid was a top 20 talent before the surgery and Dallas took him (as a tremendous value) knowing full well he may not contribute much this year. Any player coming off ACL surgery (esp a rookie) is going to be eased into things so no he wasn't expected to start.

Dallas will add a veteran safety in FA.

As for us....

Ray McDonald starting does not equal two Justin Smith's. He has been good in passing/nickel & dime situations but not nearly as good on running downs. Soap is a step down at nose from Franklin.

If Lawson ends up an UFA, then he'll get a fairly good chunk of change (more than he is worth) and may very well on his way out but I asked who was playing WILL not SAM.

Taylor Mays did not look like he would be our SS this year (going off of what we saw last year) so "undoubtedly" is pushing it. He has to win that job and is in need of a team run (not player run) offseason program to improve.

So it looks like we may be a bigger mess right now than they are.

It's not unreasonable to believe he could play in the preseason in 2011; he'll be nine months removed from surgery before most NFL training camps end. He would be 1 year removed from the injury mid way through the season. I`d say Dallas definately had plans to start him this year.

Adding a vet Safety doesnt mean your problems are solved. It just means you have added a vet.


Last season in a part-time role, McDonald tied for 10th on the team with 57 tackles, including five for losses. He did not record a sack, but he was credited with 56 pressures (second on the team, behind only Justin Smith) and his 26 hits on the quarterback tied him for third on the team. He added one interception and broke up three passes.

He wasnt used on first and 2nd downs much so he obviously didnt see many running plays. I dont know why you say he struggled though. That just isnt true.

Quote:
Hi Matt, Any sense of when the CBA will be signed. It seems close. Will a D line with RayMac, Soap and Justin Smith be stout enough against the run? I would think it would be superior against the pass? Thoughts?

I think the CBA will be done by mid-July. I'm anticipating that the Hall of Fame Game will be played as scheduled. As for the 49ers' D-line,[color=red] I think the combination of McDonald-Sopoaga-J.Smith will be every bit as good as Sopoaga-Franklin-J.Smith[/color]. --Matt M.

Read more: Maiocco: McDonald fits into 49ers' plan
Tune to SportsNet Central at 6, 10:30 and midnight on Comcast SportsNet Bay Area for more on this story



Well if Manny is staying I`d assume Aldon Smith will primarily line up opposite him.

I see Mays as a future pro bowler if used properly. Something I have confidence the new coaching staff will utilize. He is as physically gifted as Willis and V.Davis and thats half the battle. He is in his 2nd year and just needs to be polished up a bit. But make no mistake about it. He is a diamond in the rough.

The Niners are not in a mess right now IMO. We are changing things up and moving forward with players on our current roster. The way successful teams build, from within. And I think we will have a fairly quite FA because of it. Franklin will be gone and Ray Mac and Smith will be starting DE`s. Both lighting quick and very disruptive.

Not to mention Nickle packages where J. Smith, A. Smith, Ray Mac and Soap are on the line. Those are some very good passrushers, Much better than last year. The only thing I see is that we are getting better.

A bigger mess then Dallas???????

ACL surgery is a tricky thing, and while most can come back within 6 months to a year, a player takes a lot longer than that to truly get back to previous form and in some cases they never fully regain that previous form.

No way Dallas was banking on Carter filling up one starting spot on the roster this year. The at best scenario is he is a starter, but the realistic one is that he contributes to both the defense and ST's units. If NFL teams believed Carter could be a starter this year on opening day after coming off the ACL surgery he would have been drafted higher.

And you are right about one thing adding a vet safety may not solve the problem but it may provide a temporary band aid until a long term solution can be had or developed.



As far as RayMac, Maiocco's opinion is just that an opinion. He is a journalist not a scout or coach or even a former player.

Aldon Smith may not be anything more than a nickel rusher with some snaps in the base D sprinkled in during his rookie campaign due to the fact that he hasn't had the OTA's and offseason program to learn the defense and learn to play the OLB position in the NFL. He is making a transition to a new position, expecting him to be primarily lined up as an OLB is unrealistic.

Even if Manny stays, Manny may see his snaps scaled back or used in a rotation on the strongside. There was talk that Aldon Smith may be used on both weakside and strongside which would bite into Lawson's snaps and Ahmad Brooks may be looking to bite into Manny's snaps as well. Manny has yet to prove to be a consistent or even above average pass rusher.

Taylor Mays still has much to prove, so while one opinion sees him as a diamond in the rough/future pro bowler that opinion is not shared by all. He still has a big hill to climb and is another player definitely suffering from a lack of an offseason program. He also has to beat Reggie Smith and maybe even possibly another veteran who could be brought in for that job.



Dallas is also changing things up and moving forward with players on their current roster. They have built from within for the most part and could further strengthen that defense by dropping an aging and declining Terrance Newman and pursuing Nnamdi Ashomugha.

How are our passrushers much better than last year ? Because we added Aldon Smith ?

Last I checked Smith is still an UNPROVEN rookie in the NFL. On paper maybe we look better with Smith but the reality is on the field we are not until we prove we are. So yes we may be (which is what I said before MAY BE) a bigger mess on D than they are.

Speaking of the Cowboys... When it rains, it pours.

*The LIONS traded his lazy ass away
*Not the WR the Cowboys expected
*ROOKIE WR told his ass to f**k OFF and will probably snake his starting spot.

and now this

$76,000 REJECTION!



RIP

Originally posted by PiratePete:
Cowboys | Three expected to rotate at MLB
Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:31:03 -0700

The Dallas Cowboys are expected to rotate LBs Sean Lee, Bradie James and Keith Brooking at the middle linebacker spots this season in order to keep all three fresh.


Cowboys | Bruce Carter could start camp on PUP list
Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:21:06 -0700

Dallas Cowboys LB Bruce Carter (knee) would start training camp the the Physically Unable to Perform list but may be able to play in sub packages and on special teams this season.


Cowboys | Would have two new starting safeties if season began now
Wed, 06 Jul 2011 09:03:49 -0700

Dallas Cowboys SS Danny McCray and SS Barry Church would be the team's starting safeties if the season started today. SS Gerald Sensabaugh and FS Alan Ball started last season but Sensabaugh is a free agent and Ball will be moving back to cornerback.


Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/NFL?page=0#ixzz1RLcGxpEp

yeah i remember them being pretty bad last year.. their secondary is turrible

will see how much a mess they r week 2

They st ill have better passrushers than us, so it will make their secondary look better than ours.

Originally posted by DaDivaRecieva15:

Originally posted by Amir:

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Good. The messier, the better.

Originally posted by unst4bl3:
They st ill have better passrushers than us, so it will make their secondary look better than ours.

Terrance Newman is or was a baller. Hard to say as he had a down year last season and don't know if his pay really declined that much or if it was just a bad year. He is in jeopardy though of being cut with his hefty salary and aging body.

Mike Jenkins had a really good year in 2009 and was proving why he was a first rounder (after a rough rookie year), but took a step back last year.

We'll see how things go in Rob Ryan's defense, but they have the potential at corner to be really solid. At safety though they need to get better, we'll see if any of the young guys step up. I do expect them to add at least one veteran safety via FA or a trade.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:
They st ill have better passrushers than us, so it will make their secondary look better than ours.

Terrance Newman is or was a baller. Hard to say as he had a down year last season and don't know if his pay really declined that much or if it was just a bad year. He is in jeopardy though of being cut with his hefty salary and aging body.

Mike Jenkins had a really good year in 2009 and was proving why he was a first rounder (after a rough rookie year), but took a step back last year.

We'll see how things go in Rob Ryan's defense, but they have the potential at corner to be really solid. At safety though they need to get better, we'll see if any of the young guys step up. I do expect them to add at least one veteran safety via FA or a trade.

NO....the cowboys secondary is much more a mess than the niners and their D is a lot worse than ours. They are only better on 2 positions on D and that is 1 olb in ware and a dt in ratliff.....besides that as collinsworth said it best "the cowboys CAN'T STOP THE FORWARD PASS" so to answer the response of our d is a mess too is a joke at best.

Our DL is great not good but great....our lb's are awesome, even if we just had willis we would still be ok at the lb position because he is so dominant....hell he got 6 sacks the most for an ilb and he wasnt given as many chances to rush as d ware on the boys.

Our secondary is def better than the cowboys their cbs were all suspect and safeties were atrocious at best. At least clements can shut down the bigger wrs that we typically play (see fitz, steve smith ochocinco and so on....he struggles against speedy wrs but still better than anyone the cowboys have) and our safety play was better than the cowboys.

So as a whole our d did a lot better than the cowboys in every way except 1 pass rushing olb which we more than made up for playing better DEFENSE AS A WHOLE.....which was the primary point and initial posters statement which is IN FACT true.

Any which way you slice it we are better off on D and are still a really good Defense and NOT a mess like the cowboys are.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:
They st ill have better passrushers than us, so it will make their secondary look better than ours.

Terrance Newman is or was a baller. Hard to say as he had a down year last season and don't know if his pay really declined that much or if it was just a bad year. He is in jeopardy though of being cut with his hefty salary and aging body.

Mike Jenkins had a really good year in 2009 and was proving why he was a first rounder (after a rough rookie year), but took a step back last year.

We'll see how things go in Rob Ryan's defense, but they have the potential at corner to be really solid. At safety though they need to get better, we'll see if any of the young guys step up. I do expect them to add at least one veteran safety via FA or a trade.

NO....the cowboys secondary is much more a mess than the niners and their D is a lot worse than ours. They are only better on 2 positions on D and that is 1 olb in ware and a dt in ratliff.....besides that as collinsworth said it best "the cowboys CAN'T STOP THE FORWARD PASS" so to answer the response of our d is a mess too is a joke at best.

Our DL is great not good but great....our lb's are awesome, even if we just had willis we would still be ok at the lb position because he is so dominant....hell he got 6 sacks the most for an ilb and he wasnt given as many chances to rush as d ware on the boys.

Our secondary is def better than the cowboys their cbs were all suspect and safeties were atrocious at best. At least clements can shut down the bigger wrs that we typically play (see fitz, steve smith ochocinco and so on....he struggles against speedy wrs but still better than anyone the cowboys have) and our safety play was better than the cowboys.

So as a whole our d did a lot better than the cowboys in every way except 1 pass rushing olb which we more than made up for playing better DEFENSE AS A WHOLE.....which was the primary point and initial posters statement which is IN FACT true.

Any which way you slice it we are better off on D and are still a really good Defense and NOT a mess like the cowboys are.

LOL WUT ?

They have the potential to be better at corner than we do, however we have what appears to be (on paper) a stronger set of safeties. A lot depends on if guys like Jenkins and even Scandrick can play up to that potential.

Our DL is not great. C'mon man! We have one great player on our DL, Justin Smith. Outside of that we have no other "great players" on that DL.

Our LB'ers are not awesome...Patrick Willis is phenomenal but outside of that we have nothing to write home about (yet, we'll see how Aldon Smith develops over the next 3 years). Manny Lawson ? Ahmad Brooks ? Parys Haralson ? Nowhere near being awesome.

Fitzgerald ate our secondary for lunch in the 2nd meeting with AZ last year, while Roddy White, Greg Jennings and Vincent Jackson also all had a feast vs our secondary last year. Brandon Lloyd.....field day (and Lloyd turned in a great season so don't try and knock his 2010 performance because it spoke for itself) against our secondary and Matt Moore picked it apart finding Lafell and Gettis all day long since we often doubled Steve Smith. Let's not pretend that our secondary was something it wasn't. Our DB's got burned pretty badly as well.

Again Dallas needs Mike Jenkins to regain his 2nd year form for their secondary to work but there defense as a whole should look a lot different considering the contrasting coaching styles in Wade Phillips (whom the defense had quit on) and Rob Ryan. They are far from perfect but have the potential to be a lot better than they have performed.

You however like the OP and many other webzoners seem to overrate what it is we really have on defense or on the team in general.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:
They st ill have better passrushers than us, so it will make their secondary look better than ours.

Terrance Newman is or was a baller. Hard to say as he had a down year last season and don't know if his pay really declined that much or if it was just a bad year. He is in jeopardy though of being cut with his hefty salary and aging body.

Mike Jenkins had a really good year in 2009 and was proving why he was a first rounder (after a rough rookie year), but took a step back last year.

We'll see how things go in Rob Ryan's defense, but they have the potential at corner to be really solid. At safety though they need to get better, we'll see if any of the young guys step up. I do expect them to add at least one veteran safety via FA or a trade.

NO....the cowboys secondary is much more a mess than the niners and their D is a lot worse than ours. They are only better on 2 positions on D and that is 1 olb in ware and a dt in ratliff.....besides that as collinsworth said it best "the cowboys CAN'T STOP THE FORWARD PASS" so to answer the response of our d is a mess too is a joke at best.

Our DL is great not good but great....our lb's are awesome, even if we just had willis we would still be ok at the lb position because he is so dominant....hell he got 6 sacks the most for an ilb and he wasnt given as many chances to rush as d ware on the boys.

Our secondary is def better than the cowboys their cbs were all suspect and safeties were atrocious at best. At least clements can shut down the bigger wrs that we typically play (see fitz, steve smith ochocinco and so on....he struggles against speedy wrs but still better than anyone the cowboys have) and our safety play was better than the cowboys.

So as a whole our d did a lot better than the cowboys in every way except 1 pass rushing olb which we more than made up for playing better DEFENSE AS A WHOLE.....which was the primary point and initial posters statement which is IN FACT true.

Any which way you slice it we are better off on D and are still a really good Defense and NOT a mess like the cowboys are.

LOL WUT ?

They have the potential to be better at corner than we do, however we have what appears to be (on paper) a stronger set of safeties. A lot depends on if guys like Jenkins and even Scandrick can play up to that potential.

Our DL is not great. C'mon man! We have one great player on our DL, Justin Smith. Outside of that we have no other "great players" on that DL.

Our LB'ers are not awesome...Patrick Willis is phenomenal but outside of that we have nothing to write home about (yet, we'll see how Aldon Smith develops over the next 3 years). Manny Lawson ? Ahmad Brooks ? Parys Haralson ? Nowhere near being awesome.

Fitzgerald ate our secondary for lunch in the 2nd meeting with AZ last year, while Roddy White, Greg Jennings and Vincent Jackson also all had a feast vs our secondary last year. Brandon Lloyd.....field day (and Lloyd turned in a great season so don't try and knock his 2010 performance because it spoke for itself) against our secondary and Matt Moore picked it apart finding Lafell and Gettis all day long since we often doubled Steve Smith. Let's not pretend that our secondary was something it wasn't. Our DB's got burned pretty badly as well.

Again Dallas needs Mike Jenkins to regain his 2nd year form for their secondary to work but there defense as a whole should look a lot different considering the contrasting coaching styles in Wade Phillips (whom the defense had quit on) and Rob Ryan. They are far from perfect but have the potential to be a lot better than they have performed.

You however like the OP and many other webzoners seem to overrate what it is we really have on defense or on the team in general.

All of this, I live on the east coast and unfortunately get to watch cowboys games all the time. Their corners are better than ours, their scheme was terrible last year, leaving a lot of players one on one with no safety help, and sometimes they looked confused as to who to cover (maybe player issue, maybe coaching/scheme)

I think with Rob Ryan, if he could make Clevelands D hang tough, will make the cowboys extra competitive.

I think you may be overrating dal defense. The niners dl front is great against the run and avg against the pass although smith got the most sacks for a 3 4 de.

And our lbs are in fact awesome. Willis is the best lb in the league and spikes still kicks ass. The olbs are above avg we all know lawson is great vs he run and avt against the pass and brooks too.

Dallas secondary always gets burned however the niners secondary especially clements ALMOST always holds fitz to some of his worst days. The niners secondary is a lot better than dallas and safeties are certainly better even without goldson.

So again LOL WUT? dallas d IS a mess. The niners d is solid.

Originally posted by elguapo:
I think you may be overrating dal defense. The niners dl front is great against the run and avg against the pass although smith got the most sacks for a 3 4 de.

And our lbs are in fact awesome. Willis is the best lb in the league and spikes still kicks ass. The olbs are above avg we all know lawson is great vs he run and avt against the pass and brooks too.

Dallas secondary always gets burned however the niners secondary especially clements ALMOST always holds fitz to some of his worst days. The niners secondary is a lot better than dallas and safeties are certainly better even without goldson.

So again LOL WUT? dallas d IS a mess. The niners d is solid.

Great against the run but average against the pass does not mean the DL is great which was your original statement. Average and greatness are 2 very different things....

Fitzgerald has turned in at least 1 strong performance in each of the last 4 seasons (since Nate has been here) except for 2008. It's no secret that this team needs to get better at corner.

I never claimed the Dallas defense to be great or any one unit on that defense to be great, but they are not some huge defensive mess. The welcome coaching change should in itself help that defense immensely. The Dallas defense underperformed last year plain and simple. But they have talent, the potential is there if they can add a couple of pieces (much like us). I don't overrate them, and I think they will be a good but not great defense in 2011.

But by reading what you wrote above it is clear that you overrate us when you consider our LB'ing core to be awesome and our DL to be great.