How many franchise QB's are on this list?

Originally posted by redrathman:
Ninerjohn,

What's your opinion on Stafford? He's missed more games (16) than he's played in (13) over two seasons. He's had shoulder injuries and can't seem to stay on the field.

Does Detroit keep with him through next season? Is Jim Schwartz tied to Stafford much like Nolan was tied to Smith?

I do believe that Detroit believes strongly in Stafford and will keep him. His injuries are a concern no doubt but this kid has enormous upside. I just think he is too young and too talented to give up on and go another direction at QB. For now he is the guy.

Originally posted by teeohh:
You don't think Eli Manning is a franchise or even a good qb? I'd hand over valrod's left nut to have him on this team

eli is overrated but he is a good qb...

Lets look at QBs from 1988, which of these guys would you consider Franchise QBs?

1 Dan Marino
2 Jim Everett
3 Randall Cunningham
4 Boomer Esiason
5 Neil Lomax
6 Jim Kelly
7 Phil Simms
8 John Elway
9 Vinny Testaverde
10 Bobby Hebert
11 Steve Pelluer
12 Joe Montana
13 Steve DeBerg
14 Wade Wilson
15 Bubby Brister
16 Doug Williams
17 Ken O'Brien
18 Warren Moon
19 Chris Miller
20 Don Majkowski
21 Bernie Kosar
22 Jay Schroeder
23 Dave Krieg
24 Steve Beuerlein
25 Chris Chandler
26 Mark Malone
27 Rusty Hilger
28 Randy Wright

I dont think there are really any less franchise qb's than there were then. I didnt "bold" Warren Moon and John Elway only because at that point they hadnt really shown anything to prove they were franchise qb's. At the time many fans may have considered Jim Everett to be a franchise QB. The great John Elway that everybody knows really didnt show up until 93. I highlighted Jim Kelly and even that is kinda iffy.

Originally posted by modninerfan:
Lets look at QBs from 1988, which of these guys would you consider Franchise QBs?

1 Dan Marino
2 Jim Everett
3 Randall Cunningham
4 Boomer Esiason
5 Neil Lomax
6 Jim Kelly
7 Phil Simms
8 John Elway
9 Vinny Testaverde
10 Bobby Hebert
11 Steve Pelluer
12 Joe Montana
13 Steve DeBerg
14 Wade Wilson
15 Bubby Brister
16 Doug Williams
17 Ken O'Brien
18 Warren Moon
19 Chris Miller
20 Don Majkowski
21 Bernie Kosar
22 Jay Schroeder
23 Dave Krieg
24 Steve Beuerlein
25 Chris Chandler
26 Mark Malone
27 Rusty Hilger
28 Randy Wright

I dont think there are really any less franchise qb's than there were then. I didnt "bold" Warren Moon and John Elway only because at that point they hadnt really shown anything to prove they were franchise qb's. At the time many fans may have considered Jim Everett to be a franchise QB. The great John Elway that everybody knows really didnt show up until 93. I highlighted Jim Kelly and even that is kinda iffy.

Kosar and simms weren't franchise qbs? Simms won 2 sb's and Kosar went to 3 AFC championships. The Elway thing is dumb too. He went to 3 SBs in the 80s with zero talent around him.

Originally posted by modninerfan:
Lets look at QBs from 1988, which of these guys would you consider Franchise QBs?

1 Dan Marino
2 Jim Everett
3 Randall Cunningham
4 Boomer Esiason
5 Neil Lomax
6 Jim Kelly
7 Phil Simms
8 John Elway
9 Vinny Testaverde
10 Bobby Hebert
11 Steve Pelluer
12 Joe Montana
13 Steve DeBerg
14 Wade Wilson
15 Bubby Brister
16 Doug Williams
17 Ken O'Brien
18 Warren Moon
19 Chris Miller
20 Don Majkowski
21 Bernie Kosar
22 Jay Schroeder
23 Dave Krieg
24 Steve Beuerlein
25 Chris Chandler
26 Mark Malone
27 Rusty Hilger
28 Randy Wright

I dont think there are really any less franchise qb's than there were then. I didnt "bold" Warren Moon and John Elway only because at that point they hadnt really shown anything to prove they were franchise qb's. At the time many fans may have considered Jim Everett to be a franchise QB. The great John Elway that everybody knows really didnt show up until 93. I highlighted Jim Kelly and even that is kinda iffy.

WHAT? Warren Moon and John Elway are in the HOF. Bernie Kosar was VERY GOOD as well. He WAS the franchise in Cleveland. Phil Sims was't the franchise but he was good enough to get his team deep into the playoffs. Majkowski's career was shortened by injuries and Brett Favre but he was pretty good for the Packers before Favre took over.

I count 10 in the franchise/very good category.

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Brian Brohm,
Jake Delhomme,
Bruce Gradkowski,
Alex Smith,
Marc Bulger,
Josh Freeman,
Kyle Orton,
Matt Leinart,
Jason Campbell,
David Garrard,
Matt Moore,
Matt Cassel,
Matt Hasselbeck,
Matthew Stafford,
Mark Sanchez,
Chad Henne,
Jay Cutler,
Donovan McNabb,
Vince Young,
Joe Flacco,
Carson Palmer,
Matt Schaub,
Matt Ryan,
Eli Manning,
Aaron Rodgers,
Tony Romo,
Philip Rivers,
Brett Favre,
Michael Vick
Ben Roethlisberger,
Drew Brees
Peyton Manning,
Tom Brady,


Bold = Franchise QB
I = Good QB


The NFL is lacking when it comes to the QB position!

What is the problem?

To much spread offense in college football?
QB coaches in the NFL suck?
Athlete's aren't getting it done at the position?

Of the italics; Sanchez is still a work in progress. He has really come down in the second half of this season.

Garrard has been very inconsistent. He is on a bit of a roll right now but prior to this season, he was about to be replaced.

Freeman is far from established. He looks good but his numbers are just average.

Stafford hasn't been healthy long enough to tell if he is the real deal or just a flash in the pan that hasn't been around long enough to be scouted.

McNabb is done. He has lost two steps and has not been able to adjust to the new system in Washington. Right now he is #3 on the depth chart.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by redrathman:
Ninerjohn,

What's your opinion on Stafford? He's missed more games (16) than he's played in (13) over two seasons. He's had shoulder injuries and can't seem to stay on the field.

Does Detroit keep with him through next season? Is Jim Schwartz tied to Stafford much like Nolan was tied to Smith?

I do believe that Detroit believes strongly in Stafford and will keep him. His injuries are a concern no doubt but this kid has enormous upside. I just think he is too young and too talented to give up on and go another direction at QB. For now he is the guy.

It helps that Detroit has the same offensive system that are buily around Staffords stregnths. and Megatron helps as well. and having the same coordinator as well. Absolutely Shwartz is tied to Stafford. But they have done it the right way...unfortunate about the injuries.

Tony Romo

95.5 Passer Rating
118 touchdowns
62 interceptions
64.1% completion percentage

How is Romo not even listed as a good QB?

stop being biased against the Cowboys.

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
The NFL is lacking when it comes to the QB position!

What is the problem?

To much spread offense in college football?
QB coaches in the NFL suck?
Athlete's aren't getting it done at the position?

This is how it's always been in the NFL.

The salary cap helped in spreading talent, but not every NFL team can have Joe Montana and Steve Young on the same roster.

Exactly. Most teams never get franchise QBs. It has nothing to do with what is happening at the college level. Back when there were less colleges running a pro system and instead going with the wishbone/option offenses, franchise QBs were still few and far between. If anything there may be a higher percentage now. That's what makes them even more valuable and why teams will trade away a lot (see the Culter trade to the Bears) to get one.

Originally posted by jojomellon:

Originally posted by modninerfan:
Lets look at QBs from 1988, which of these guys would you consider Franchise QBs?

1 Dan Marino
2 Jim Everett
3 Randall Cunningham
4 Boomer Esiason
5 Neil Lomax
6 Jim Kelly
7 Phil Simms
8 John Elway
9 Vinny Testaverde
10 Bobby Hebert
11 Steve Pelluer
12 Joe Montana
13 Steve DeBerg
14 Wade Wilson
15 Bubby Brister
16 Doug Williams
17 Ken O'Brien
18 Warren Moon
19 Chris Miller
20 Don Majkowski
21 Bernie Kosar
22 Jay Schroeder
23 Dave Krieg
24 Steve Beuerlein
25 Chris Chandler
26 Mark Malone
27 Rusty Hilger
28 Randy Wright

I dont think there are really any less franchise qb's than there were then. I didnt "bold" Warren Moon and John Elway only because at that point they hadnt really shown anything to prove they were franchise qb's. At the time many fans may have considered Jim Everett to be a franchise QB. The great John Elway that everybody knows really didnt show up until 93. I highlighted Jim Kelly and even that is kinda iffy.

Kosar and simms weren't franchise qbs? Simms won 2 sb's and Kosar went to 3 AFC championships. The Elway thing is dumb too. He went to 3 SBs in the 80s with zero talent around him.

Zero talent? Kidding, right? OK they may not have been the '89 49ers, but they had some good players. Couple of great ones.

Zero talent. Yeah right.

Originally posted by Homo4Romo:
Tony Romo

95.5 Passer Rating
118 touchdowns
62 interceptions
64.1% completion percentage

Fair point.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I guess it depends on your definition of franchise QB. I would look at teams that are in good situations at QB and would not be looking for a replacement. BAsed on that criteria then over 1/2 the teams in the league are in good shape.

Cream of the Crop
Brady
Manning
Rogers
Brees
Rivers
Vick
Big Ben
Ryan

Below the top but still solid NFL Qbs or young future stars
Bradford
Flacco
Eli Manning
Freeman
Stafford
Romo
Schaub
Cutler
Cassell
Sanchez

So.. in my opinion 18 of the 32 NFL teams are set at QB.

This is the list that's actually relevant for us. The reason it's relevant is because when you look at how these teams got these QBs it makes it pretty clear what we need to do.

Cream of the Crop
Brady 6th round pick
Manning 1st round pick
Rogers 1st round pick
Brees FA, former 2nd round pick (picked 33 over all)
Rivers 1st round pick
Vick FA, former 1st round pick
Big Ben 1st round pick
Ryan 1st round pick

Below the top but still solid NFL Qbs or young future stars
Bradford 1st round pick
Flacco 1st round pick
Eli Manning 1st round pick
Freeman 1st round pick
Stafford 1st round pick
Romo undrafted FA
Schaub trade, former 3rd round pick
Cutler trade, former 1st round pick
Cassell trade, former 7th round pick
Sanchez 1st round pick


See a trend here? Out of the 18 teams with solid QBs, 11 drafted them in the 1st round. 5 acquired them through trade or free agency, but most of those QBs were high picks originally. Only 2 teams got their guy as a late round or undrafted rookie.

So, what this tells me is that unless you have an opportunity to get a talented AND young QB through trade or free agency, you HAVE to draft one in the first round.

Romo and Brady are ANOMALIES! You can not expect solve your QB problem with a guy that no one else thought would be any good. That happens once every 10 years.

Sometimes teams get lucky and are able to get a top QB later because they slip in the draft. But picking up anyone outside the top group of a QBs in a draft when you're looking for anything more than a backup IS ABSOLUTELY CRAZY!

Even though I too can see the flaws with guys like Newton, Locker, and Mallet, we pretty much have to take one of them. If one them slips and we can get them in the second, then great. But gambling that Stanzi or some other mid round QB is going to end up being our franchise QB is like using the lottery as your retirement plan. CRAZY, CHEAP, and DELUSIONAL.

Sorry to turn this into a draft post, but seeing this list really clarified what I'd already been thinking.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by jojomellon:

Originally posted by modninerfan:
Lets look at QBs from 1988, which of these guys would you consider Franchise QBs?

1 Dan Marino
2 Jim Everett
3 Randall Cunningham
4 Boomer Esiason
5 Neil Lomax
6 Jim Kelly
7 Phil Simms
8 John Elway
9 Vinny Testaverde
10 Bobby Hebert
11 Steve Pelluer
12 Joe Montana
13 Steve DeBerg
14 Wade Wilson
15 Bubby Brister
16 Doug Williams
17 Ken O'Brien
18 Warren Moon
19 Chris Miller
20 Don Majkowski
21 Bernie Kosar
22 Jay Schroeder
23 Dave Krieg
24 Steve Beuerlein
25 Chris Chandler
26 Mark Malone
27 Rusty Hilger
28 Randy Wright

I dont think there are really any less franchise qb's than there were then. I didnt "bold" Warren Moon and John Elway only because at that point they hadnt really shown anything to prove they were franchise qb's. At the time many fans may have considered Jim Everett to be a franchise QB. The great John Elway that everybody knows really didnt show up until 93. I highlighted Jim Kelly and even that is kinda iffy.

Kosar and simms weren't franchise qbs? Simms won 2 sb's and Kosar went to 3 AFC championships. The Elway thing is dumb too. He went to 3 SBs in the 80s with zero talent around him.

Zero talent? Kidding, right? OK they may not have been the '89 49ers, but they had some good players. Couple of great ones.

Zero talent. Yeah right.

zero point zero. Elway carried those teams on his back.