Who is the bigger bust?

Originally posted by znk916:
winner

who is this chick. seen this pic in holly rowe thread in the pl. it's not her is it

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:
i still have to go with r. leaf.

especially with sd passing on p. manning

The Colts had the first pick in the draft.

San Diego did not pass on Peyton Manning

damn i really effed up on this. FAIL. thanks for the correction.

no problem

Originally posted by Negrodamus:

Originally posted by Negrodamus:
i still have to go with r. leaf.

especially with sd passing on p. manning

I thought the Colts picked first that year. The Chargers swapped their first pick with the Cardinals to move to second spot. Leaf was upset with the Colts for passing him over for Manning, but the Colts hit the jackpot.

Russell is in Ryan Leaf territory. Leinart is not. imo.

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Russell is in Ryan Leaf territory. Leinart is not. imo.

winner

this shouldn't even be a question for 2 reasons:

1) IMO Leinart actually tried and there's no doubt in my mind he'll soon be back in an NFL roster. I understand the AZ feels he's not ready to be the leader a QB needs to be but IMO he can be a solid backup in a few years because he's got work ethic. Which btw, Russell doesn't have AT ALL. Dude straight up got paid and barely broke a sweat trying to get better as a player. Seems like he figured talent and success comes with being a #1 pick, dude is a TOTAL WASTE.

2) Russell's physical skill set is a coach's dream at the QB position. Accuracy can be developed at the NFL level, a cannon-arm cannot. Coming out of the draft Leinart was highly praised for being able to make the right decisions with the ball but nobody ever said he was gonna be a gun-slinger. QB's who win the Heisman aren't a lock to succeed in the NFL, just ask Troy Smith who was cut from the Ravens this weekend or Jason White (if you even remember him)


Leinart is a bust no doubt, but putting him at Jamarcus' level is mad disrespect even for an ex-cardinal.

Originally posted by jimrat201:
Feels weird to say this but we got lucky that Lienart stayed in school another year because we would have drafted him instead of Smith.

Yeah, we literally 'dodged a bullet' on that one.

Russell.

It's not even close. He may be a bigger bust than Ryan Leaf. Can throw 70 yards from his knees. He's the perfect example of a multi million dollar arm and a ten cent head.

Leinart is a bigger bust, IMO, because there is no reason for him to have flamed out. He was on a playoff team, had the best WR in football, and got to a watch a humble, borderline HOF-er for three years. There was no reason for him not to succeed but for being a smug, lazy brat with a sense of entitlement. At least for Russell--who, to be fair, was also lazy and entitled and fat to boot--you could say that he was on a s**t team with a s**t owner and played for s**t coaches, and that he's as dumb as a sack of rocks. You can't really say any of that for Leinart.

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Leinart is a bigger bust, IMO, because there is no reason for him to have flamed out. He was on a playoff team, had the best WR in football, and got to a watch a humble, borderline HOF-er for three years. There was no reason for him not to succeed but for being a smug, lazy brat with a sense of entitlement. At least for Russell--who, to be fair, was also lazy and entitled and fat to boot--you could say that he was on a s**t team with a s**t owner and played for s**t coaches, and that he's as dumb as a sack of rocks. You can't really say any of that for Leinart.

Leinart doesn't have the talent that Russell does. The reason why Leinart slipped so bad was because his flaws became apparrent. Really had nothing to do with his attitude. He doesn't have the tools to be an elite QB. Never did.

He has a below average arm, and isn't accurate. He might be smug, and lazy as well, but he's just not a very talented quarterback to begin with. Very similiar to Brady Quinn. Got a lot of hype early in his college career, but the longer he stayed the more he was exposed.

You can't say that about Russell. The guy has everything you want in a quarterback with the exception of work ethic. QB's are taken #1 in the draft to turn the franchise around. That's why Russell got paid 60 million and Leinart got paid 12 million. Jim Drunkenmiller went to the best passing offense in the history of the NFL, and went out in flames. Nobody is putting him above Ryan Leaf.

Higher pick, higher expectations. End of story.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Leinart is a bigger bust, IMO, because there is no reason for him to have flamed out. He was on a playoff team, had the best WR in football, and got to a watch a humble, borderline HOF-er for three years. There was no reason for him not to succeed but for being a smug, lazy brat with a sense of entitlement. At least for Russell--who, to be fair, was also lazy and entitled and fat to boot--you could say that he was on a s**t team with a s**t owner and played for s**t coaches, and that he's as dumb as a sack of rocks. You can't really say any of that for Leinart.

Leinart doesn't have the talent that Russell does. The reason why Leinart slipped so bad was because his flaws became apparrent. Really had nothing to do with his attitude. He doesn't have the tools to be an elite QB. Never did.

He has a below average arm, and isn't accurate. He might be smug, and lazy as well, but he's just not a very talented quarterback to begin with. Very similiar to Brady Quinn. Got a lot of hype early in his college career, but the longer he stayed the more he was exposed.

You can't say that about Russell. The guy has everything you want in a quarterback with the exception of work ethic. QB's are taken #1 in the draft to turn the franchise around. That's why Russell got paid 60 million and Leinart got paid 12 million. Jim Drunkenmiller went to the best passing offense in the history of the NFL, and went out in flames. Nobody is putting him above Ryan Leaf.

Higher pick, higher expectations. End of story.

slipped so bad in the draft? he was the 10th pick of the whole thing! And VY was picked before him because he just came off the National Championship game and had a lot of hype.

I agree with you that all SC guys coming out during that era were over hyped, but I think any QB picked in the first round, #1 overall or not, is expected to be the face of the franchise. #1 overall you're the face of your draft class, 1st round QB you are the face of your franchise.

With your logic it doesn't matter if Aaron Rodgers fails or not, because he was picked in the 20s. And its okay if he fails because there was no expectation he would take over and do well after Favre left.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Leinart is a bigger bust, IMO, because there is no reason for him to have flamed out. He was on a playoff team, had the best WR in football, and got to a watch a humble, borderline HOF-er for three years. There was no reason for him not to succeed but for being a smug, lazy brat with a sense of entitlement. At least for Russell--who, to be fair, was also lazy and entitled and fat to boot--you could say that he was on a s**t team with a s**t owner and played for s**t coaches, and that he's as dumb as a sack of rocks. You can't really say any of that for Leinart.

Leinart doesn't have the talent that Russell does. The reason why Leinart slipped so bad was because his flaws became apparrent. Really had nothing to do with his attitude. He doesn't have the tools to be an elite QB. Never did.

He has a below average arm, and isn't accurate. He might be smug, and lazy as well, but he's just not a very talented quarterback to begin with. Very similiar to Brady Quinn. Got a lot of hype early in his college career, but the longer he stayed the more he was exposed.

You can't say that about Russell. The guy has everything you want in a quarterback with the exception of work ethic. QB's are taken #1 in the draft to turn the franchise around. That's why Russell got paid 60 million and Leinart got paid 12 million. Jim Drunkenmiller went to the best passing offense in the history of the NFL, and went out in flames. Nobody is putting him above Ryan Leaf.

Higher pick, higher expectations. End of story.

Disagree there, did anyone actually think Russell wouldn't bust considering the awful situation he got drafted into?

Compared to Loinhurt who had Fitz and Boldin to throw to.

Originally posted by znk916:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Leinart is a bigger bust, IMO, because there is no reason for him to have flamed out. He was on a playoff team, had the best WR in football, and got to a watch a humble, borderline HOF-er for three years. There was no reason for him not to succeed but for being a smug, lazy brat with a sense of entitlement. At least for Russell--who, to be fair, was also lazy and entitled and fat to boot--you could say that he was on a s**t team with a s**t owner and played for s**t coaches, and that he's as dumb as a sack of rocks. You can't really say any of that for Leinart.

Leinart doesn't have the talent that Russell does. The reason why Leinart slipped so bad was because his flaws became apparrent. Really had nothing to do with his attitude. He doesn't have the tools to be an elite QB. Never did.

He has a below average arm, and isn't accurate. He might be smug, and lazy as well, but he's just not a very talented quarterback to begin with. Very similiar to Brady Quinn. Got a lot of hype early in his college career, but the longer he stayed the more he was exposed.

You can't say that about Russell. The guy has everything you want in a quarterback with the exception of work ethic. QB's are taken #1 in the draft to turn the franchise around. That's why Russell got paid 60 million and Leinart got paid 12 million. Jim Drunkenmiller went to the best passing offense in the history of the NFL, and went out in flames. Nobody is putting him above Ryan Leaf.

Higher pick, higher expectations. End of story.

Disagree there, did anyone actually think Russell wouldn't bust considering the awful situation he got drafted into?

Compared to Loinhurt who had Fitz and Boldin to throw to.

First quarterback taken always goes into the worse situation imagineable. You're not going to say Claussen is the bigger flop compared to Bradford. If Smith and Rodgers flopped you wouldn't call Rodgers the bigger flop.

Leinart really didn't even get a chance to showcase his stuff. He started 1 game in year 3 and 4. If Leinart was the top pick make no mistake about Kurt Warner is playing somewhere else because you can't justify paying 2 QB's 10 millions dollars each. See Brees and Rivers.

Originally posted by global_nomad:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Leinart is a bigger bust, IMO, because there is no reason for him to have flamed out. He was on a playoff team, had the best WR in football, and got to a watch a humble, borderline HOF-er for three years. There was no reason for him not to succeed but for being a smug, lazy brat with a sense of entitlement. At least for Russell--who, to be fair, was also lazy and entitled and fat to boot--you could say that he was on a s**t team with a s**t owner and played for s**t coaches, and that he's as dumb as a sack of rocks. You can't really say any of that for Leinart.

Leinart doesn't have the talent that Russell does. The reason why Leinart slipped so bad was because his flaws became apparrent. Really had nothing to do with his attitude. He doesn't have the tools to be an elite QB. Never did.

He has a below average arm, and isn't accurate. He might be smug, and lazy as well, but he's just not a very talented quarterback to begin with. Very similiar to Brady Quinn. Got a lot of hype early in his college career, but the longer he stayed the more he was exposed.

You can't say that about Russell. The guy has everything you want in a quarterback with the exception of work ethic. QB's are taken #1 in the draft to turn the franchise around. That's why Russell got paid 60 million and Leinart got paid 12 million. Jim Drunkenmiller went to the best passing offense in the history of the NFL, and went out in flames. Nobody is putting him above Ryan Leaf.

Higher pick, higher expectations. End of story.

slipped so bad in the draft? he was the 10th pick of the whole thing! And VY was picked before him because he just came off the National Championship game and had a lot of hype.

I agree with you that all SC guys coming out during that era were over hyped, but I think any QB picked in the first round, #1 overall or not, is expected to be the face of the franchise. #1 overall you're the face of your draft class, 1st round QB you are the face of your franchise.

With your logic it doesn't matter if Aaron Rodgers fails or not, because he was picked in the 20s. And its okay if he fails because there was no expectation he would take over and do well after Favre left.

Just ask Crabtree how big of a drop 3 to 10 is. He held out a quarter of the season because he so p*ssed.

On your second point, I'm saying if Rodgers and Smith flopped without a doubt everybody would consider Smith as the bigger flop. It's undeniable. Of course there's expectations for all 1st round picks but not 60 million dollars worth of expectations. When you're a top 5 selection organizations are forced to build around you. You can't have your backup QB making 10 million dollars. If Leinart was picked in top 5 he would have actually got the oppurtunity to prove himself in the league and not play himself out of Arizona from the bench and preseason games.

Originally posted by SnakePlissken:

Originally posted by jimrat201:
Feels weird to say this but we got lucky that Lienart stayed in school another year because we would have drafted him instead of Smith.

Yeah, we literally 'dodged a bullet' on that one.

9er fans dodged a bullet; while Bay Area chicks dodged herpes. win/win

Russel by far.

Taken higher in the draft. Dumped by his team faster. Performed at a lower level while an NFL starter. Had a significantly higher ceiling but never even got close to it. Additionally Leinart will likely compete in the future, and I can see him becoming a quality career back up, especially in a WCO that minimizes his lack of arm strength. Russel IMO will have a much tougher time ever getting back into the NFL. If he's to even become a career backup he'll be in the AFL or CFL.