Since this guy was drafted in the first round by the Raiders, I've been a fan. Be honest now, you've got to admire a kicker who commands a first round draft pick, even by Al Davis. And before we move ahead, let me say that I don't care about his off the field bar fighting routine. In fact, I think I admire it. Kickers are known for being pansies, but not the Pollock kicker that sports the black and silver.
I'm sure many of you were laughing at the Raiders in 2000, but I think we can all admit those laughs were mistaken at this point. No? Take a look at some our first round picks since 2000 that are no longer around and can be considered busts at this point in history.
2008 - Kentwan Balmer
2004 - Rashuan Woods
2003 - Kwame Harris
2002 - Mike Rumph
With that in mind, does it seem all that ridiculous to take a kicker who can literally boot the ball out of the back of the endzone with little effort in hurricane force winds, in the first round? He has been doing that for a decade now along with kicking balls through the uprights from fifty plus yards with ease.
At 32, I wouldn't be upset if the 49ers shipped a third round pick to the Raiders today for this guy. What he would add to our special teams would definitely payoff this season, and probably for at least another five or six years after that. And by all accounts, we're chasing Lombardi Trophy #6. There is no doubt Janikowski could help out tremendously with that effort.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHbBIetr0Rg&feature=related
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Sebastian Janikowski
Aug 31, 2010 at 12:17 PM
- Kilgore_Trout
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Aug 31, 2010 at 12:21 PM
- JoseCortez
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No because you can get an elite player in the first round at a more important position. You are assuming that our first round selection will definitely be a bust. If you trust your scouting department, there is no way you spend a first rounder on a kicker.
Aug 31, 2010 at 12:23 PM
- BSacamano
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I would be very upset if we traded for him. His addition to our special teams play would be minimal. Not to mention that there are plenty of kickers much better than him, most of whom weren't even drafted.
Never spend a 1st round pick on a kicker.
Never spend a 1st round pick on a kicker.
Aug 31, 2010 at 12:26 PM
- Kilgore_Trout
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Originally posted by JoseCortez:
No because you can get an elite player in the first round at a more important position. You are assuming that our first round selection will definitely be a bust. If you trust your scouting department, there is no way you spend a first rounder on a kicker.
Jose, I find this response quite surprising coming from you! But in all seriousness, Janikowski is an elite player at a very important position. Kickers decide games multiple times per season, and being able to generate a touchback on every single kickoff is also very important, especially when you're a defensive minded team, as we are.
Aug 31, 2010 at 12:28 PM
- Kilgore_Trout
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Originally posted by BSacamano:
I would be very upset if we traded for him. His addition to our special teams play would be minimal. Not to mention that there are plenty of kickers much better than him, most of whom weren't even drafted.
Never spend a 1st round pick on a kicker.
Name the kickers who are better than him. I'm not saying there aren't other good kickers in the league, but Janikowski's leg strength is unprecedented and he has been able to do it consistently for a decade now. Further, his leg shows no signs of wearing down.
And are you serious with that minimal comment? Our kicker can hardly get the ball to the opponents twenty on kickoffs. On top of that, he routinely kicks balls out of bounds in crucial situations and kills us in the field position game. Last year against Indy he did this and helped them score one more time before halftime. Nedney blows at this stage in the game, and 49er fans need to wakeup to that. He had a good run, but it is clearly over.
[ Edited by Kilgore_Trout on Aug 31, 2010 at 12:29 PM ]
Aug 31, 2010 at 12:29 PM
- danimal
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Interesting you brought this up. I admit I did clown on many o raider fans for this pick. But since then it really was not that bad of a pick.
First off they were a SB caliber team with very few holes, and they had been losing most of their games by 3 points or less. And it did seem to work....after they got Janikowski they had good looks at the Ring, and ofcourse they got cheated horribly with the tuck rule.
So short term, he provided exactly what they needed, and long term,,,he turns out to be a franchise kicker for them.
Both the Niners and the Raiders have made far worst 1st round picks than Janikowski.
And remember this dude looked like a complete loser right after he was drafted with the date rape drug thing and the possible deportation
First off they were a SB caliber team with very few holes, and they had been losing most of their games by 3 points or less. And it did seem to work....after they got Janikowski they had good looks at the Ring, and ofcourse they got cheated horribly with the tuck rule.
So short term, he provided exactly what they needed, and long term,,,he turns out to be a franchise kicker for them.
Both the Niners and the Raiders have made far worst 1st round picks than Janikowski.
And remember this dude looked like a complete loser right after he was drafted with the date rape drug thing and the possible deportation
Aug 31, 2010 at 12:31 PM
- Kilgore_Trout
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Originally posted by danimal:
Interesting you brought this up. I admit I did clown on many o raider fans for this pick. But since then it really was not that bad of a pick.
First off they were a SB caliber team with very few holes, and they had been losing most of their games by 3 points or less. And it did seem to work....after they got Janikowski they had good looks at the Ring, and ofcourse they got cheated horribly with the tuck rule.
So short term, he provided exactly what they needed, and long term,,,he turns out to be a franchise kicker for them.
Both the Niners and the Raiders have made far worst 1st round picks than Janikowski.
And remember this dude looked like a complete loser right after he was drafted with the date rape drug thing and the possible deportation
Yea, I think all the negative publicity came with being a Raider. But like you said, locking up a franchise kicker isn't anywhere near the worst way to spend a first round pick. Janikowski could go down in history as the greatest leg the game has ever seen.
Aug 31, 2010 at 12:42 PM
- skeetskeet
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Member Milestone:
This is post number 2,700 for skeetskeet.
Originally posted by danimal:
Interesting you brought this up. I admit I did clown on many o raider fans for this pick. But since then it really was not that bad of a pick.
First off they were a SB caliber team with very few holes, and they had been losing most of their games by 3 points or less. And it did seem to work....after they got Janikowski they had good looks at the Ring, and ofcourse they got cheated horribly with the tuck rule.
So short term, he provided exactly what they needed, and long term,,,he turns out to be a franchise kicker for them.
Both the Niners and the Raiders have made far worst 1st round picks than Janikowski.
And remember this dude looked like a complete loser right after he was drafted with the date rape drug thing and the possible deportation
but at the same time, you could say that by using first round picks on guys like janikowski, its part of the reason why the raiders have been so bad for so long lately. They may not have had holes at the time of the draft but their players were getting older and they should have been drafting guys to replace those players.
Aug 31, 2010 at 1:03 PM
- Kilgore_Trout
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Originally posted by skeetskeet:Originally posted by danimal:
Interesting you brought this up. I admit I did clown on many o raider fans for this pick. But since then it really was not that bad of a pick.
First off they were a SB caliber team with very few holes, and they had been losing most of their games by 3 points or less. And it did seem to work....after they got Janikowski they had good looks at the Ring, and ofcourse they got cheated horribly with the tuck rule.
So short term, he provided exactly what they needed, and long term,,,he turns out to be a franchise kicker for them.
Both the Niners and the Raiders have made far worst 1st round picks than Janikowski.
And remember this dude looked like a complete loser right after he was drafted with the date rape drug thing and the possible deportation
but at the same time, you could say that by using first round picks on guys like janikowski, its part of the reason why the raiders have been so bad for so long lately. They may not have had holes at the time of the draft but their players were getting older and they should have been drafting guys to replace those players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NFL_Draft
Take a look at the 2000 draft. Most of those guys taken in the first round had short-lived careers and many were busts. We took Plummer that year who was a decent pick, but not remarkable. In hindsight, who would you rather have between Plummer and Janikowski?
Aug 31, 2010 at 1:09 PM
- valrod33
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Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:Chad Pennington or Shaun AlexanderOriginally posted by skeetskeet:Originally posted by danimal:
Interesting you brought this up. I admit I did clown on many o raider fans for this pick. But since then it really was not that bad of a pick.
First off they were a SB caliber team with very few holes, and they had been losing most of their games by 3 points or less. And it did seem to work....after they got Janikowski they had good looks at the Ring, and ofcourse they got cheated horribly with the tuck rule.
So short term, he provided exactly what they needed, and long term,,,he turns out to be a franchise kicker for them.
Both the Niners and the Raiders have made far worst 1st round picks than Janikowski.
And remember this dude looked like a complete loser right after he was drafted with the date rape drug thing and the possible deportation
but at the same time, you could say that by using first round picks on guys like janikowski, its part of the reason why the raiders have been so bad for so long lately. They may not have had holes at the time of the draft but their players were getting older and they should have been drafting guys to replace those players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NFL_Draft
Take a look at the 2000 draft. Most of those guys taken in the first round had short-lived careers and many were busts. We took Plummer that year who was a decent pick, but not remarkable. In hindsight, who would you rather have between Plummer and Janikowski?
Aug 31, 2010 at 1:19 PM
- JoseCortez
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,245
For some reason, Janikowski has not made it to the pro bowl. The AFC has had the following kickers in recent years:
2009 Stephen Goskowski, NE: 4th rnd
2008 Rob Bironas, TN: Undrafted
2007 Nate Kaeding, SD: 3rd rd
2006 Shayne Graham, CI: Undrafted
2005 Adam Vinatieri, NE: Undrafted
2004 Mike Vanderjagt, In: 8th rd, CFL
2003 Adam Vinatieri, NE: Undrafted
2009 Stephen Goskowski, NE: 4th rnd
2008 Rob Bironas, TN: Undrafted
2007 Nate Kaeding, SD: 3rd rd
2006 Shayne Graham, CI: Undrafted
2005 Adam Vinatieri, NE: Undrafted
2004 Mike Vanderjagt, In: 8th rd, CFL
2003 Adam Vinatieri, NE: Undrafted
Aug 31, 2010 at 1:21 PM
- danimal
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,705
Originally posted by skeetskeet:Originally posted by danimal:
Interesting you brought this up. I admit I did clown on many o raider fans for this pick. But since then it really was not that bad of a pick.
First off they were a SB caliber team with very few holes, and they had been losing most of their games by 3 points or less. And it did seem to work....after they got Janikowski they had good looks at the Ring, and ofcourse they got cheated horribly with the tuck rule.
So short term, he provided exactly what they needed, and long term,,,he turns out to be a franchise kicker for them.
Both the Niners and the Raiders have made far worst 1st round picks than Janikowski.
And remember this dude looked like a complete loser right after he was drafted with the date rape drug thing and the possible deportation
but at the same time, you could say that by using first round picks on guys like janikowski, its part of the reason why the raiders have been so bad for so long lately. They may not have had holes at the time of the draft but their players were getting older and they should have been drafting guys to replace those players.
that would be a stretch, but I get your logic.
Honestly though, in this day and age....when you are that close to the SB, you really should just be thinking about that. These days I am much more forgiving to those teams who make short term decisions because they are just one hump away.
Aug 31, 2010 at 1:34 PM
- Kilgore_Trout
- Veteran
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Originally posted by valrod33:Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:Chad Pennington or Shaun AlexanderOriginally posted by skeetskeet:Originally posted by danimal:
Interesting you brought this up. I admit I did clown on many o raider fans for this pick. But since then it really was not that bad of a pick.
First off they were a SB caliber team with very few holes, and they had been losing most of their games by 3 points or less. And it did seem to work....after they got Janikowski they had good looks at the Ring, and ofcourse they got cheated horribly with the tuck rule.
So short term, he provided exactly what they needed, and long term,,,he turns out to be a franchise kicker for them.
Both the Niners and the Raiders have made far worst 1st round picks than Janikowski.
And remember this dude looked like a complete loser right after he was drafted with the date rape drug thing and the possible deportation
but at the same time, you could say that by using first round picks on guys like janikowski, its part of the reason why the raiders have been so bad for so long lately. They may not have had holes at the time of the draft but their players were getting older and they should have been drafting guys to replace those players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NFL_Draft
Take a look at the 2000 draft. Most of those guys taken in the first round had short-lived careers and many were busts. We took Plummer that year who was a decent pick, but not remarkable. In hindsight, who would you rather have between Plummer and Janikowski?
Pennington is a decent QB. Alexander benefited from running behind Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson. After Hutch left, Shaun Alexander was exposed as the crappy RB he always was. If Alexander had ran behind a mediocre O-line, he would have been a nobody.
Aug 31, 2010 at 1:35 PM
- Kilgore_Trout
- Veteran
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Originally posted by JoseCortez:
For some reason, Janikowski has not made it to the pro bowl. The AFC has had the following kickers in recent years:
2009 Stephen Goskowski, NE: 4th rnd
2008 Rob Bironas, TN: Undrafted
2007 Nate Kaeding, SD: 3rd rd
2006 Shayne Graham, CI: Undrafted
2005 Adam Vinatieri, NE: Undrafted
2004 Mike Vanderjagt, In: 8th rd, CFL
2003 Adam Vinatieri, NE: Undrafted
If Janikowski had been playing for playoff teams and didn't have the bad reputation, you can bet he would have had a Pro Bowl or two or ten by now.
Aug 31, 2010 at 1:48 PM
- valrod33
- Hall of Small
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Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:Originally posted by JoseCortez:
For some reason, Janikowski has not made it to the pro bowl. The AFC has had the following kickers in recent years:
2009 Stephen Goskowski, NE: 4th rnd
2008 Rob Bironas, TN: Undrafted
2007 Nate Kaeding, SD: 3rd rd
2006 Shayne Graham, CI: Undrafted
2005 Adam Vinatieri, NE: Undrafted
2004 Mike Vanderjagt, In: 8th rd, CFL
2003 Adam Vinatieri, NE: Undrafted
If Janikowski had been playing for playoff teams and didn't have the bad reputation, you can bet he would have had a Pro Bowl or two or ten by now.
sure