Marcellus Wiley says NFL culture still has "no tolerance" for homosexuality

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I think there is plenty of tolerance for a homosexual to play the game.

There is zero tolerance when it comes to a gay person in the LOCKER ROOM. I play adult league hockey every week and I would just consider it to be completely rude for a gay person to dress in the same locker room as me. Go get dressed in the bathroom or in your own locker room and meet us out on the ice. Just like I wouldn't consider it appropriate for a female hockey player to dress in our locker room.

why would it be "rude" to get dressed in the locker room? That's where people get dressed, no?

I guess I kinda see SDN point... But I could care less who's washing their ass around me. Unless dude starts asking me to wash his back. Then we might have an issue.

Hessian, would it be rude for me to be in a women's locker room at the gym?

depends on what you were doing there.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I think there is plenty of tolerance for a homosexual to play the game.

There is zero tolerance when it comes to a gay person in the LOCKER ROOM. I play adult league hockey every week and I would just consider it to be completely rude for a gay person to dress in the same locker room as me. Go get dressed in the bathroom or in your own locker room and meet us out on the ice. Just like I wouldn't consider it appropriate for a female hockey player to dress in our locker room.

why would it be "rude" to get dressed in the locker room? That's where people get dressed, no?

I guess I kinda see SDN point... But I could care less who's washing their ass around me. Unless dude starts asking me to wash his back. Then we might have an issue.

Hessian, would it be rude for me to be in a women's locker room at the gym?

depends on what you were doing there.

I think you may have a double standard.

If you think its okay for gays to be in a guys locker room, then you BY LOGIC think its okay for men to be in a women's locker room.

Be consistent with your position. And "not all men are attracted to all women"

Edit: And to answer your question, I think its rude to be in a locker room where you MAY be sexually attracted to other people in that locker room who are undressing-dressing in there.

I think that type of privacy is just common sense in a locker room atmosphere, and I use a man in a women's locker room as an example.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I think there is plenty of tolerance for a homosexual to play the game.

There is zero tolerance when it comes to a gay person in the LOCKER ROOM. I play adult league hockey every week and I would just consider it to be completely rude for a gay person to dress in the same locker room as me. Go get dressed in the bathroom or in your own locker room and meet us out on the ice. Just like I wouldn't consider it appropriate for a female hockey player to dress in our locker room.

why would it be "rude" to get dressed in the locker room? That's where people get dressed, no?

I guess I kinda see SDN point... But I could care less who's washing their ass around me. Unless dude starts asking me to wash his back. Then we might have an issue.

Hessian, would it be rude for me to be in a women's locker room at the gym?

depends on what you were doing there.

I think you may have a double standard.

If you think its okay for gays to be in a guys locker room, then you BY LOGIC think its okay for men to be in a women's locker room.

Be consistent with your position. And "not all men are attracted to all women"

Edit: And to answer your question, I think its rude to be in a locker room where you MAY be sexually attracted to other people in that locker room who are undressing-dressing in there.

if its a double standard its because they are entirely different situations.

what reason would you have to be in a woman's locker room?

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I think there is plenty of tolerance for a homosexual to play the game.

There is zero tolerance when it comes to a gay person in the LOCKER ROOM. I play adult league hockey every week and I would just consider it to be completely rude for a gay person to dress in the same locker room as me. Go get dressed in the bathroom or in your own locker room and meet us out on the ice. Just like I wouldn't consider it appropriate for a female hockey player to dress in our locker room.

why would it be "rude" to get dressed in the locker room? That's where people get dressed, no?

I guess I kinda see SDN point... But I could care less who's washing their ass around me. Unless dude starts asking me to wash his back. Then we might have an issue.

Hessian, would it be rude for me to be in a women's locker room at the gym?

depends on what you were doing there.

I think you may have a double standard.

If you think its okay for gays to be in a guys locker room, then you BY LOGIC think its okay for men to be in a women's locker room.

Be consistent with your position. And "not all men are attracted to all women"

Edit: And to answer your question, I think its rude to be in a locker room where you MAY be sexually attracted to other people in that locker room who are undressing-dressing in there.

if its a double standard its because they are entirely different situations.

what reason would you have to be in a woman's locker room?

Its cleaner then the men's locker room? Quit avoiding the question.

Is it okay for me, a straight male, to walk into a women's locker room and get changed. And my intentions are just to get changed in there. Do you think the women have a right of privacy to exclude me?

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I think there is plenty of tolerance for a homosexual to play the game.

There is zero tolerance when it comes to a gay person in the LOCKER ROOM. I play adult league hockey every week and I would just consider it to be completely rude for a gay person to dress in the same locker room as me. Go get dressed in the bathroom or in your own locker room and meet us out on the ice. Just like I wouldn't consider it appropriate for a female hockey player to dress in our locker room.

why would it be "rude" to get dressed in the locker room? That's where people get dressed, no?

I guess I kinda see SDN point... But I could care less who's washing their ass around me. Unless dude starts asking me to wash his back. Then we might have an issue.

Hessian, would it be rude for me to be in a women's locker room at the gym?

depends on what you were doing there.

I think you may have a double standard.

If you think its okay for gays to be in a guys locker room, then you BY LOGIC think its okay for men to be in a women's locker room.

Be consistent with your position. And "not all men are attracted to all women"

Edit: And to answer your question, I think its rude to be in a locker room where you MAY be sexually attracted to other people in that locker room who are undressing-dressing in there.

if its a double standard its because they are entirely different situations.

what reason would you have to be in a woman's locker room?

Its cleaner then the men's locker room? Quit avoiding the question.

Is it okay for me, a straight male, to walk into a women's locker room and get changed. And my intentions are just to get changed in there. Do you think the women have a right of privacy to exclude me?

haha, i'm not avoiding the question, you are. To make an obvious and unnecessary point: gay men aren't women. To make another: a gay NFL player would be in the locker room because its the locker room. Its where the team meets/changes/showers/prepares for the game. As part of the team, he would have to be in there. What reason would you have to be in a woman's locker room? You don''t have one. Its an entirely different situation.

by your logic, gyms should have separate locker rooms/showers for gay people. Last I checked, that doesn't happen, it isn't legal.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

Originally posted by HessianDud:


well, you don't know me, and I doubt you even know "people like me." I never said you had to "tolerate" anything you don't want to, and I don't think you can force anyone to "just get along." But I think everyone should have the same right and freedom to live their life and pursue their choices without someone's else's intolerance getting in the way.

lol im intolerant because I would feel awkward if there was a gay dude showering next to me every day? comon, your arguments are losing their "equal opportunity for everyone" pull. Just accept the fact that 52 dudes knowing 1 dude is gay would be awkward in a locker room.

oh, i can accept that, i understand that that is "the culture" of the NFL, i just think its ludicrous and irrational to think/feel that, and I think anyone excusing that behavior is equally immature, homophobic, and behind the times.

its not about "equal opportunity", its about the NFL and its players growing up and realizing that they are one of the few workplace environments in this country where that kind of thinking is allowed to persist.

Im sorry, how many other workplaces do you shower/ get naked and interact in the sort of manner/ like a football locker room? Do you do that at your job with all of your male employees?

you make a good point: NFL players shower with other guys all the time. Its already the gayest workplace in the country. What difference does it make if someone is actually gay?

you do know what being gay means, right?

obviously i was being somewhat facetious. but the subtext of my post was that if a bunch of grown men who are accustomed to being naked around other naked grown men have a problem being naked around a particular kind of naked grown man, they obviously aren't completely grown up yet.

again: the "showering with a gay dude" argument is a childish, completely homophobic fear and a red herring. The real reasons why there is "no tolerance" for homosexuality in the NFL has to do with an outdated definition of manhood. A gay guy couldn't possibly be tough enough for the NFL, could he? He's not a "real man." You couldn't count on him in the trenches. Etc. Etc. That's why the first openly gay player is going to have to be one of the best players in the league, to prove that his human nature doesn't affect his ability to play.

Silly, and sad, that such a thing still needs to be proven.

haha what? This has nothing to do with being childish or gay people being a "real man" or them having to prove thmeselves, I'd be surprsed if you ever played a varsity/collegiate sport, you simply cannot relate. I'm over this conversation

its okay, you'll grow up someday.

totally

I don't see how it's an issue of growing up. Some people simply aren't comfortable being naked around people of the same gender who are attracted to them. It's that f'ing simple. Just because it's a bunch of guys showering off doesn't mean its gay, because none of them are thinking of eachother that way. I mean damn, they gotta get clean somewhere. Gay players would atleast have to have their own shower or something.

just because a guy is gay doesn't mean he is attracted to every man he sees and can't control his sexual advances/appetites. to think the opposite is a naive and immature--childish--way of seeing homosexuals.

This isn't the chess club or your local YMCA. We're talking about room full of guys in peak physical condition. I'm not saying they get a boner from it and can't control themselves, but you're kidding yourself if you think they're not going to take looks.

What percentage of men do you think goes to the beach and not takes a look at the 10's that go by? It's naive to think that most gays don't think the same way that most straight men do.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

This isn't the chess club or your local YMCA. We're talking about room full of guys in peak physical condition. I'm not saying they get a boner from it and can't control themselves, but you're kidding yourself if you think they're not going to take looks.

What percentage of men do you think goes to the beach and not takes a look at the 10's that go by? It's naive to think that most gays don't think the same way that most straight men do.

i love the "peak physical condition" line of this argument. For all you know this heretofore fictional openly gay NFL player could be into Bears or Filipino Ladyboys.

i never said they "wouldn't look." that's never been my argument. my argument has been that its silly to think that an openly gay player would be either trying to make his teammates uncomfortable or be unable to control himself in the locker room. That's asinine and makes gay people sound like something less than human.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

This isn't the chess club or your local YMCA. We're talking about room full of guys in peak physical condition. I'm not saying they get a boner from it and can't control themselves, but you're kidding yourself if you think they're not going to take looks.

What percentage of men do you think goes to the beach and not takes a look at the 10's that go by? It's naive to think that most gays don't think the same way that most straight men do.

i love the "peak physical condition" line of this argument. For all you know this heretofore fictional openly gay NFL player could be into Bears or Filipino Ladyboys.

i never said they "wouldn't look." that's never been my argument. my argument has been that its silly to think that an openly gay player would be either trying to make his teammates uncomfortable or be unable to control himself in the locker room. That's asinine and makes gay people sound like something less than human.

To the 1st part what you want in a relationship isn't always what you're ideally attracted to.

I never tried to imply that they would do those things. That's just naturally uncomfortable position right there for both sides.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

This isn't the chess club or your local YMCA. We're talking about room full of guys in peak physical condition. I'm not saying they get a boner from it and can't control themselves, but you're kidding yourself if you think they're not going to take looks.

What percentage of men do you think goes to the beach and not takes a look at the 10's that go by? It's naive to think that most gays don't think the same way that most straight men do.

i love the "peak physical condition" line of this argument. For all you know this heretofore fictional openly gay NFL player could be into Bears or Filipino Ladyboys.

i never said they "wouldn't look." that's never been my argument. my argument has been that its silly to think that an openly gay player would be either trying to make his teammates uncomfortable or be unable to control himself in the locker room. That's asinine and makes gay people sound like something less than human.

To the 1st part what you want in a relationship isn't always what you're ideally attracted to.

I never tried to imply that they would do those things. That's just naturally uncomfortable position right there for both sides.

i agree with this in a general sense, but i do think its funny to think that a gay NFL player would be sexually attracted to a Filipino ladyboy but be trying to start a relationship with one of his teammates. That would certainly be a weird situation.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

This isn't the chess club or your local YMCA. We're talking about room full of guys in peak physical condition. I'm not saying they get a boner from it and can't control themselves, but you're kidding yourself if you think they're not going to take looks.

What percentage of men do you think goes to the beach and not takes a look at the 10's that go by? It's naive to think that most gays don't think the same way that most straight men do.

i love the "peak physical condition" line of this argument. For all you know this heretofore fictional openly gay NFL player could be into Bears or Filipino Ladyboys.

i never said they "wouldn't look." that's never been my argument. my argument has been that its silly to think that an openly gay player would be either trying to make his teammates uncomfortable or be unable to control himself in the locker room. That's asinine and makes gay people sound like something less than human.

To the 1st part what you want in a relationship isn't always what you're ideally attracted to.

I never tried to imply that they would do those things. That's just naturally uncomfortable position right there for both sides.

i agree with this in a general sense, but i do think its funny to think that a gay NFL player would be sexually attracted to a Filipino ladyboy but be trying to start a relationship with one of his teammates. That would certainly be a weird situation.

Nobody said he would be hitting on other players. Just admiring the goods.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I think there is plenty of tolerance for a homosexual to play the game.

There is zero tolerance when it comes to a gay person in the LOCKER ROOM. I play adult league hockey every week and I would just consider it to be completely rude for a gay person to dress in the same locker room as me. Go get dressed in the bathroom or in your own locker room and meet us out on the ice. Just like I wouldn't consider it appropriate for a female hockey player to dress in our locker room.

why would it be "rude" to get dressed in the locker room? That's where people get dressed, no?

I guess I kinda see SDN point... But I could care less who's washing their ass around me. Unless dude starts asking me to wash his back. Then we might have an issue.

Hessian, would it be rude for me to be in a women's locker room at the gym?

depends on what you were doing there.

I think you may have a double standard.

If you think its okay for gays to be in a guys locker room, then you BY LOGIC think its okay for men to be in a women's locker room.

Be consistent with your position. And "not all men are attracted to all women"

Edit: And to answer your question, I think its rude to be in a locker room where you MAY be sexually attracted to other people in that locker room who are undressing-dressing in there.

if its a double standard its because they are entirely different situations.

what reason would you have to be in a woman's locker room?

Its cleaner then the men's locker room? Quit avoiding the question.

Is it okay for me, a straight male, to walk into a women's locker room and get changed. And my intentions are just to get changed in there. Do you think the women have a right of privacy to exclude me?

haha, i'm not avoiding the question, you are. To make an obvious and unnecessary point: gay men aren't women. To make another: a gay NFL player would be in the locker room because its the locker room. Its where the team meets/changes/showers/prepares for the game. As part of the team, he would have to be in there. What reason would you have to be in a woman's locker room? You don''t have one. Its an entirely different situation.

by your logic, gyms should have separate locker rooms/showers for gay people. Last I checked, that doesn't happen, it isn't legal.

Quote the question I didn't answer.

And please quote your answer to my question about a straight male enetering into a women's locker room and if the women have a rigth to privacy to exclude the men.

Locker room division between men/women is premised on the concept of privacy from sexual attraction while a person undressess/showers.

Edit: And isn't legal? You don't know what you are talking about

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by kray28:
Hearst got in trouble just a short decade ago for basically saying the same thing in a slightly less diplomatic fashion....he was roasted by the NFL, the media, and the team and forced to apologize.

But the truth is that while the NFL is happy to pay political lip service to the gay community, it has unwritten rules about what basically amounts to a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy when it comes to homosexuals in the locker room.

A certain component of a player's success is political...the coach and your peers have to like you enough to want to play with you. Being gay basically limits that possibility totally and completely. So if you re in fact gay, you better not let them know.

Someone has to break the barrier, man. It was the same for black players at one time too. Someone will eventually!

when did a persons sexual preference become something that needed to be expressed to others? i hate when people compare homosexuality to racial struggle.

if youre a teacher, a politician, an NFL player, etc, your sexual preference is nobodies business. everyone grills the military for "dont ask dont tell", when thats how it SHOULD be. if you like men, thats nobodies business but your own. if you choose to make it this open topic, you do it full well knowing some people wont agree with it.

being a certain race isnt something that you hold onto privately. jackie robinson being black wasnt something personal. the lifestyle you choose to live IS personal.

im just tired of homosexuals demanding things and shoving their sexual preference in everyones face. keep it to yourself, nobody cares.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by MoistButtCheeks:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
I think there is plenty of tolerance for a homosexual to play the game.

There is zero tolerance when it comes to a gay person in the LOCKER ROOM. I play adult league hockey every week and I would just consider it to be completely rude for a gay person to dress in the same locker room as me. Go get dressed in the bathroom or in your own locker room and meet us out on the ice. Just like I wouldn't consider it appropriate for a female hockey player to dress in our locker room.

why would it be "rude" to get dressed in the locker room? That's where people get dressed, no?

I guess I kinda see SDN point... But I could care less who's washing their ass around me. Unless dude starts asking me to wash his back. Then we might have an issue.

Hessian, would it be rude for me to be in a women's locker room at the gym?

depends on what you were doing there.

I think you may have a double standard.

If you think its okay for gays to be in a guys locker room, then you BY LOGIC think its okay for men to be in a women's locker room.

Be consistent with your position. And "not all men are attracted to all women"

Edit: And to answer your question, I think its rude to be in a locker room where you MAY be sexually attracted to other people in that locker room who are undressing-dressing in there.

if its a double standard its because they are entirely different situations.

what reason would you have to be in a woman's locker room?

Its cleaner then the men's locker room? Quit avoiding the question.

Is it okay for me, a straight male, to walk into a women's locker room and get changed. And my intentions are just to get changed in there. Do you think the women have a right of privacy to exclude me?

haha, i'm not avoiding the question, you are. To make an obvious and unnecessary point: gay men aren't women. To make another: a gay NFL player would be in the locker room because its the locker room. Its where the team meets/changes/showers/prepares for the game. As part of the team, he would have to be in there. What reason would you have to be in a woman's locker room? You don''t have one. Its an entirely different situation.

by your logic, gyms should have separate locker rooms/showers for gay people. Last I checked, that doesn't happen, it isn't legal.

Quote the question I didn't answer.

And please quote your answer to my question about a straight male enetering into a women's locker room and if the women have a rigth to privacy to exclude the men.

Locker room division between men/women is premised on the concept of privacy from sexual attraction while a person undressess/showers.

Edit: And isn't legal? You don't know what you are talking about

separate isn't equal, right? i don't see how that doesn't apply, how it could be justified anywhere, to have separate locker rooms for gay people. I know that you know the law better than I do, but I don't see how it could be legal to make that designation.

it would be rude for you to enter a woman's locker room because you don't belong there. i'm sorry, i thought i answered that question. maybe i answered it with a question--my bad. its still a completely different situation, and you haven't answered my question about WHY you would be in a woman's locker room, how that could arise from a situation that would make it similar to the gay NFL player discussion.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by kray28:
Hearst got in trouble just a short decade ago for basically saying the same thing in a slightly less diplomatic fashion....he was roasted by the NFL, the media, and the team and forced to apologize.

But the truth is that while the NFL is happy to pay political lip service to the gay community, it has unwritten rules about what basically amounts to a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy when it comes to homosexuals in the locker room.

A certain component of a player's success is political...the coach and your peers have to like you enough to want to play with you. Being gay basically limits that possibility totally and completely. So if you re in fact gay, you better not let them know.

Someone has to break the barrier, man. It was the same for black players at one time too. Someone will eventually!

when did a persons sexual preference become something that needed to be expressed to others? i hate when people compare homosexuality to racial struggle.

if youre a teacher, a politician, an NFL player, etc, your sexual preference is nobodies business. everyone grills the military for "dont ask dont tell", when thats how it SHOULD be. if you like men, thats nobodies business but your own. if you choose to make it this open topic, you do it full well knowing some people wont agree with it.

being a certain race isnt something that you hold onto privately. jackie robinson being black wasnt something personal. the lifestyle you choose to live IS personal.

im just tired of homosexuals demanding things and shoving their sexual preference in everyones face. keep it to yourself, nobody cares.

sexual preference isn't a choice. that aside, you are right: your sexual preference isn't anybodies business, but why should someone have to hide it? Besides, its about more than just sex. If you work with a gay guy who has a partner, is he not allowed to invite him to the Christmas party because that would be "shoving it" in everybodies face?

Originally posted by kray28:
Hearst got in trouble just a short decade ago for basically saying the same thing in a slightly less diplomatic fashion....he was roasted by the NFL, the media, and the team and forced to apologize.

Uhhhhh...Hearst didn't basically say the same thing, he said the exact opposite thing.

Wiley said there's a lot of homophobia in the NFL and that it would be extraordinarily difficult for a player to be out of the closet in the NFL. He's lamenting the problem.

Hearst said "Aww, hell no! I don't want any f****ts on my team. I know this might not be what people want to hear, but that's a punk. I don't want any f****ts in this locker room."

Hearst wasn't "less diplomatic". Not even by a long shot.