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Marcellus Wiley says NFL culture still has "no tolerance" for homosexuality

Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Why does everyone have to be so PC all the time? I have nothing to hide, i have no prejudice or hate towards gays in any way, but i can say that they absolutely should not come out during their careers. No sh*t the NFL culture has "no tolerance" for that. Do you know how awkward every locker room would be with him? Im surprised Tony Romo has made it this far, when he retires and comes out of the closet, no one should be surprised.

it doesn't have anything to do with "being PC", it has to do with being able to do your job and live your life. Those things shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Yes, the NFL culture isn't tolerant, and it will talk an extremely brave person to be openly gay and an active player in the NFL, but that doesn't mean that its "okay."


You're wrong. This would be like them checking out teammates and stuff in the showers and that's bad. Or holding gay pep rallies or whatever and calling a bunch of attention to themselves. Half the reason TO doesn't have a job now is because people look at him as a distraction, not that he's gay or he's a criminal but he calls a lot of attention to himself. This guy calling a lot of attention to himself would undermine the team, the teammates would always be asked about it, it'd be extremely awkward in the showers, etc. Every other player is pretty much not supposed to call a lot of attention to themselves for any reason except their play on the field. Look at Romo when he dated Jessica Simpson. He got somewhat ripped for it and it was a bit of a distraction for them and then they were always asking his teammates about who he was dating and his relationship and fans showing up to games with masks of her face and stuff. Nobody is saying a gay player couldn't nail other dudes off the field and stuff and have parties with people they want to party with, they're just saying that pretty much just like any other player they need to STFU and play while they're on the field and keep a low profile by not causing any distractions. What they do off the field is their own business and when their career is over its their own business. But not when they're an active member of the team.

look at Jackie Robinson. I can't believe that guy called all that attention to himself!




lol How can you even compare the 2? Jackie was black and people cant help their skin color, they are what they are and thats fine. He was a really talented athlete. Im sure some gay people are talented athletes too but they can hide that their gay from the general public or not call attention to it, and its totally different because theres nothing perveted/sick about Jackie/any black player walking around the club house or shower or whatever while there's definitely something sick about an openly gay guy walking around in a shower of straight ones.

I mean damn, its like if you were in a lockerroom full of hot chicks who are in great shape or whatever, like a supermodel shower or whatever, most guys would be going crazy. Now that's like how a gay guy would be like in a lockerroom of other guys especially athletes who are mostly in really good shape probably.

exactly. Not sure how you don't see the connection.

anyway, its only sick/perverted if you buy the assumption that gay people are sick/perverted because of who they are, or that they are some kind of uncontrollable sex animals.

and your analogy about the hot chicks is false. If its just me and a room of random hot chicks, of course i'd be checking them out. But obviously teammates are not random to one another, they're like brethren, yes? So to make your analogy more apt, if I were in a room full of naked chicks who happened to be my friends, sisters, or co-workers, then, no, I wouldn't be checking them out because it would violate the nature of our relationship, or it would make the workplace an uncomfortable environment, etc.

Anyway, do you think a closeted gay guy is checking out his teammates less than an openly gay guy?
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Why does everyone have to be so PC all the time? I have nothing to hide, i have no prejudice or hate towards gays in any way, but i can say that they absolutely should not come out during their careers. No sh*t the NFL culture has "no tolerance" for that. Do you know how awkward every locker room would be with him? Im surprised Tony Romo has made it this far, when he retires and comes out of the closet, no one should be surprised.

it doesn't have anything to do with "being PC", it has to do with being able to do your job and live your life. Those things shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Yes, the NFL culture isn't tolerant, and it will talk an extremely brave person to be openly gay and an active player in the NFL, but that doesn't mean that its "okay."


You're wrong. This would be like them checking out teammates and stuff in the showers and that's bad. Or holding gay pep rallies or whatever and calling a bunch of attention to themselves. Half the reason TO doesn't have a job now is because people look at him as a distraction, not that he's gay or he's a criminal but he calls a lot of attention to himself. This guy calling a lot of attention to himself would undermine the team, the teammates would always be asked about it, it'd be extremely awkward in the showers, etc. Every other player is pretty much not supposed to call a lot of attention to themselves for any reason except their play on the field. Look at Romo when he dated Jessica Simpson. He got somewhat ripped for it and it was a bit of a distraction for them and then they were always asking his teammates about who he was dating and his relationship and fans showing up to games with masks of her face and stuff. Nobody is saying a gay player couldn't nail other dudes off the field and stuff and have parties with people they want to party with, they're just saying that pretty much just like any other player they need to STFU and play while they're on the field and keep a low profile by not causing any distractions. What they do off the field is their own business and when their career is over its their own business. But not when they're an active member of the team.

look at Jackie Robinson. I can't believe that guy called all that attention to himself!




lol How can you even compare the 2? Jackie was black and people cant help their skin color, they are what they are and thats fine. He was a really talented athlete. Im sure some gay people are talented athletes too but they can hide that their gay from the general public or not call attention to it, and its totally different because theres nothing perveted/sick about Jackie/any black player walking around the club house or shower or whatever while there's definitely something sick about an openly gay guy walking around in a shower of straight ones.

I mean damn, its like if you were in a lockerroom full of hot chicks who are in great shape or whatever, like a supermodel shower or whatever, most guys would be going crazy. Now that's like how a gay guy would be like in a lockerroom of other guys especially athletes who are mostly in really good shape probably.

exactly. Not sure how you don't see the connection.

anyway, its only sick/perverted if you buy the assumption that gay people are sick/perverted because of who they are, or that they are some kind of uncontrollable sex animals.

and your analogy about the hot chicks is false. If its just me and a room of random hot chicks, of course i'd be checking them out. But obviously teammates are not random to one another, they're like brethren, yes? So to make your analogy more apt, if I were in a room full of naked chicks who happened to be my friends, sisters, or co-workers, then, no, I wouldn't be checking them out because it would violate the nature of our relationship, or it would make the workplace an uncomfortable environment, etc.

Anyway, do you think a closeted gay guy is checking out his teammates less than an openly gay guy?

I think most people would find that situation to be pretty awkward and uncomfortable to begin with. There's a reason why that situation doesn't pop up too often. I don't buy for one second that they don't look. It's human nature.

I'm not trying to say a gay person should be forced into hiding though. I do think there's something wrong about a gay NFL player not being able to disclose who is life partner is. I don't think he should have to hide his relationships.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Jul 17, 2010 at 2:41 PM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Why does everyone have to be so PC all the time? I have nothing to hide, i have no prejudice or hate towards gays in any way, but i can say that they absolutely should not come out during their careers. No sh*t the NFL culture has "no tolerance" for that. Do you know how awkward every locker room would be with him? Im surprised Tony Romo has made it this far, when he retires and comes out of the closet, no one should be surprised.

it doesn't have anything to do with "being PC", it has to do with being able to do your job and live your life. Those things shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Yes, the NFL culture isn't tolerant, and it will talk an extremely brave person to be openly gay and an active player in the NFL, but that doesn't mean that its "okay."


You're wrong. This would be like them checking out teammates and stuff in the showers and that's bad. Or holding gay pep rallies or whatever and calling a bunch of attention to themselves. Half the reason TO doesn't have a job now is because people look at him as a distraction, not that he's gay or he's a criminal but he calls a lot of attention to himself. This guy calling a lot of attention to himself would undermine the team, the teammates would always be asked about it, it'd be extremely awkward in the showers, etc. Every other player is pretty much not supposed to call a lot of attention to themselves for any reason except their play on the field. Look at Romo when he dated Jessica Simpson. He got somewhat ripped for it and it was a bit of a distraction for them and then they were always asking his teammates about who he was dating and his relationship and fans showing up to games with masks of her face and stuff. Nobody is saying a gay player couldn't nail other dudes off the field and stuff and have parties with people they want to party with, they're just saying that pretty much just like any other player they need to STFU and play while they're on the field and keep a low profile by not causing any distractions. What they do off the field is their own business and when their career is over its their own business. But not when they're an active member of the team.

look at Jackie Robinson. I can't believe that guy called all that attention to himself!




lol How can you even compare the 2? Jackie was black and people cant help their skin color, they are what they are and thats fine. He was a really talented athlete. Im sure some gay people are talented athletes too but they can hide that their gay from the general public or not call attention to it, and its totally different because theres nothing perveted/sick about Jackie/any black player walking around the club house or shower or whatever while there's definitely something sick about an openly gay guy walking around in a shower of straight ones.

I mean damn, its like if you were in a lockerroom full of hot chicks who are in great shape or whatever, like a supermodel shower or whatever, most guys would be going crazy. Now that's like how a gay guy would be like in a lockerroom of other guys especially athletes who are mostly in really good shape probably.

exactly. Not sure how you don't see the connection.

anyway, its only sick/perverted if you buy the assumption that gay people are sick/perverted because of who they are, or that they are some kind of uncontrollable sex animals.

and your analogy about the hot chicks is false. If its just me and a room of random hot chicks, of course i'd be checking them out. But obviously teammates are not random to one another, they're like brethren, yes? So to make your analogy more apt, if I were in a room full of naked chicks who happened to be my friends, sisters, or co-workers, then, no, I wouldn't be checking them out because it would violate the nature of our relationship, or it would make the workplace an uncomfortable environment, etc.

Anyway, do you think a closeted gay guy is checking out his teammates less than an openly gay guy?

I think most people would find that situation to be pretty awkward and uncomfortable to begin with. There's a reason why that situation doesn't pop up too often. I don't buy for one second that they don't look. It's human nature.

I'm not trying to say a gay person should be forced into hiding though. I do think there's something wrong about a gay NFL player not being able to disclose who is life partner is. I don't think he should have to hide his relationships.

agreed (obviously).

as for "the looking", IDK, it seems like a red herring to me. I'm not saying "they" wouldn't look, I just don't buy it as "the reason" that "the culture" has no tolerance for homosexuality. "the culture" is based on a somewhat archaic definition of manhood and masculinity that is behind the rest of the culture.
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
if hes good its fine unless he has his own shower, but if he sucks cut his ass

hahah
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Why does everyone have to be so PC all the time? I have nothing to hide, i have no prejudice or hate towards gays in any way, but i can say that they absolutely should not come out during their careers. No sh*t the NFL culture has "no tolerance" for that. Do you know how awkward every locker room would be with him? Im surprised Tony Romo has made it this far, when he retires and comes out of the closet, no one should be surprised.

it doesn't have anything to do with "being PC", it has to do with being able to do your job and live your life. Those things shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Yes, the NFL culture isn't tolerant, and it will talk an extremely brave person to be openly gay and an active player in the NFL, but that doesn't mean that its "okay."


You're wrong. This would be like them checking out teammates and stuff in the showers and that's bad. Or holding gay pep rallies or whatever and calling a bunch of attention to themselves. Half the reason TO doesn't have a job now is because people look at him as a distraction, not that he's gay or he's a criminal but he calls a lot of attention to himself. This guy calling a lot of attention to himself would undermine the team, the teammates would always be asked about it, it'd be extremely awkward in the showers, etc. Every other player is pretty much not supposed to call a lot of attention to themselves for any reason except their play on the field. Look at Romo when he dated Jessica Simpson. He got somewhat ripped for it and it was a bit of a distraction for them and then they were always asking his teammates about who he was dating and his relationship and fans showing up to games with masks of her face and stuff. Nobody is saying a gay player couldn't nail other dudes off the field and stuff and have parties with people they want to party with, they're just saying that pretty much just like any other player they need to STFU and play while they're on the field and keep a low profile by not causing any distractions. What they do off the field is their own business and when their career is over its their own business. But not when they're an active member of the team.

look at Jackie Robinson. I can't believe that guy called all that attention to himself!




lol How can you even compare the 2? Jackie was black and people cant help their skin color, they are what they are and thats fine. He was a really talented athlete. Im sure some gay people are talented athletes too but they can hide that their gay from the general public or not call attention to it, and its totally different because theres nothing perveted/sick about Jackie/any black player walking around the club house or shower or whatever while there's definitely something sick about an openly gay guy walking around in a shower of straight ones.

I mean damn, its like if you were in a lockerroom full of hot chicks who are in great shape or whatever, like a supermodel shower or whatever, most guys would be going crazy. Now that's like how a gay guy would be like in a lockerroom of other guys especially athletes who are mostly in really good shape probably.

exactly. Not sure how you don't see the connection.

anyway, its only sick/perverted if you buy the assumption that gay people are sick/perverted because of who they are, or that they are some kind of uncontrollable sex animals.

and your analogy about the hot chicks is false. If its just me and a room of random hot chicks, of course i'd be checking them out. But obviously teammates are not random to one another, they're like brethren, yes? So to make your analogy more apt, if I were in a room full of naked chicks who happened to be my friends, sisters, or co-workers, then, no, I wouldn't be checking them out because it would violate the nature of our relationship, or it would make the workplace an uncomfortable environment, etc.

Anyway, do you think a closeted gay guy is checking out his teammates less than an openly gay guy?

Lol what? other than the sister aspect, that can't be right. If you took showers with a bunch of hot co-workers and friends that were chicks, you wouldn't check them out because that would VIOLATE THE NATURE OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP? You would do it even inadvertently just because thats human nature. you have to be kidding yourself with this "violate our freindship" for the sake of this argument because there is no way that's true.

There's nothing perverted or wrong with being gay, but I'm fairly sure any gay guy would like to be in a locker room with a Tom Brady, or sh*t mr. wrangler jeans Brett Favre etc, and thats kind creepy to say the least.

If you were one of Danica Patricks crew chiefs and yall showered together, would you never accidently check her out because that would "violate the nature of your freindship"? f*ck no, and thats probably why those situations don't happen, and they shouldnt, just like openly gay guys in a professional football locker room.
[ Edited by DynastyChile on Jul 19, 2010 at 1:18 PM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Why does everyone have to be so PC all the time? I have nothing to hide, i have no prejudice or hate towards gays in any way, but i can say that they absolutely should not come out during their careers. No sh*t the NFL culture has "no tolerance" for that. Do you know how awkward every locker room would be with him? Im surprised Tony Romo has made it this far, when he retires and comes out of the closet, no one should be surprised.

Tony Romo might be the guy who can pull it off unscathed. When your ex list contains Jessica Simpson, Carrie Underwood, and Kelly Clarkson then you can pretty much do anyone else and still be ahead.

hahaha toucheeee
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,334
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Why does everyone have to be so PC all the time? I have nothing to hide, i have no prejudice or hate towards gays in any way, but i can say that they absolutely should not come out during their careers. No sh*t the NFL culture has "no tolerance" for that. Do you know how awkward every locker room would be with him? Im surprised Tony Romo has made it this far, when he retires and comes out of the closet, no one should be surprised.

it doesn't have anything to do with "being PC", it has to do with being able to do your job and live your life. Those things shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Yes, the NFL culture isn't tolerant, and it will talk an extremely brave person to be openly gay and an active player in the NFL, but that doesn't mean that its "okay."


You're wrong. This would be like them checking out teammates and stuff in the showers and that's bad. Or holding gay pep rallies or whatever and calling a bunch of attention to themselves. Half the reason TO doesn't have a job now is because people look at him as a distraction, not that he's gay or he's a criminal but he calls a lot of attention to himself. This guy calling a lot of attention to himself would undermine the team, the teammates would always be asked about it, it'd be extremely awkward in the showers, etc. Every other player is pretty much not supposed to call a lot of attention to themselves for any reason except their play on the field. Look at Romo when he dated Jessica Simpson. He got somewhat ripped for it and it was a bit of a distraction for them and then they were always asking his teammates about who he was dating and his relationship and fans showing up to games with masks of her face and stuff. Nobody is saying a gay player couldn't nail other dudes off the field and stuff and have parties with people they want to party with, they're just saying that pretty much just like any other player they need to STFU and play while they're on the field and keep a low profile by not causing any distractions. What they do off the field is their own business and when their career is over its their own business. But not when they're an active member of the team.

look at Jackie Robinson. I can't believe that guy called all that attention to himself!




lol How can you even compare the 2? Jackie was black and people cant help their skin color, they are what they are and thats fine. He was a really talented athlete. Im sure some gay people are talented athletes too but they can hide that their gay from the general public or not call attention to it, and its totally different because theres nothing perveted/sick about Jackie/any black player walking around the club house or shower or whatever while there's definitely something sick about an openly gay guy walking around in a shower of straight ones.

I mean damn, its like if you were in a lockerroom full of hot chicks who are in great shape or whatever, like a supermodel shower or whatever, most guys would be going crazy. Now that's like how a gay guy would be like in a lockerroom of other guys especially athletes who are mostly in really good shape probably.

exactly. Not sure how you don't see the connection.

anyway, its only sick/perverted if you buy the assumption that gay people are sick/perverted because of who they are, or that they are some kind of uncontrollable sex animals.

and your analogy about the hot chicks is false. If its just me and a room of random hot chicks, of course i'd be checking them out. But obviously teammates are not random to one another, they're like brethren, yes? So to make your analogy more apt, if I were in a room full of naked chicks who happened to be my friends, sisters, or co-workers, then, no, I wouldn't be checking them out because it would violate the nature of our relationship, or it would make the workplace an uncomfortable environment, etc.

Anyway, do you think a closeted gay guy is checking out his teammates less than an openly gay guy?

You aren't the norm. The average guy is going to check out naked chicks unless they are blood relatives. Being a gay guy in the NFL would be like allowing a straight guy in the changing room at a super model convention. So unless the straight NFL guys are allowed to go shower with the cheerleaders, the gay guys don't belong in the locker room. They should have their own showers, or I guess you could put them with the cheerleaders as they would view a naked woman the way we view naked guys (gross). Guy gays are probably the most promiscuous group on the planet, to say they wouldn't be checking out guys junk makes no sense.
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Why does everyone have to be so PC all the time? I have nothing to hide, i have no prejudice or hate towards gays in any way, but i can say that they absolutely should not come out during their careers. No sh*t the NFL culture has "no tolerance" for that. Do you know how awkward every locker room would be with him? Im surprised Tony Romo has made it this far, when he retires and comes out of the closet, no one should be surprised.

it doesn't have anything to do with "being PC", it has to do with being able to do your job and live your life. Those things shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Yes, the NFL culture isn't tolerant, and it will talk an extremely brave person to be openly gay and an active player in the NFL, but that doesn't mean that its "okay."


You're wrong. This would be like them checking out teammates and stuff in the showers and that's bad. Or holding gay pep rallies or whatever and calling a bunch of attention to themselves. Half the reason TO doesn't have a job now is because people look at him as a distraction, not that he's gay or he's a criminal but he calls a lot of attention to himself. This guy calling a lot of attention to himself would undermine the team, the teammates would always be asked about it, it'd be extremely awkward in the showers, etc. Every other player is pretty much not supposed to call a lot of attention to themselves for any reason except their play on the field. Look at Romo when he dated Jessica Simpson. He got somewhat ripped for it and it was a bit of a distraction for them and then they were always asking his teammates about who he was dating and his relationship and fans showing up to games with masks of her face and stuff. Nobody is saying a gay player couldn't nail other dudes off the field and stuff and have parties with people they want to party with, they're just saying that pretty much just like any other player they need to STFU and play while they're on the field and keep a low profile by not causing any distractions. What they do off the field is their own business and when their career is over its their own business. But not when they're an active member of the team.

look at Jackie Robinson. I can't believe that guy called all that attention to himself!




lol How can you even compare the 2? Jackie was black and people cant help their skin color, they are what they are and thats fine. He was a really talented athlete. Im sure some gay people are talented athletes too but they can hide that their gay from the general public or not call attention to it, and its totally different because theres nothing perveted/sick about Jackie/any black player walking around the club house or shower or whatever while there's definitely something sick about an openly gay guy walking around in a shower of straight ones.

I mean damn, its like if you were in a lockerroom full of hot chicks who are in great shape or whatever, like a supermodel shower or whatever, most guys would be going crazy. Now that's like how a gay guy would be like in a lockerroom of other guys especially athletes who are mostly in really good shape probably.

exactly. Not sure how you don't see the connection.

anyway, its only sick/perverted if you buy the assumption that gay people are sick/perverted because of who they are, or that they are some kind of uncontrollable sex animals.

and your analogy about the hot chicks is false. If its just me and a room of random hot chicks, of course i'd be checking them out. But obviously teammates are not random to one another, they're like brethren, yes? So to make your analogy more apt, if I were in a room full of naked chicks who happened to be my friends, sisters, or co-workers, then, no, I wouldn't be checking them out because it would violate the nature of our relationship, or it would make the workplace an uncomfortable environment, etc.

Anyway, do you think a closeted gay guy is checking out his teammates less than an openly gay guy?

Lol what? other than the sister aspect, that can't be right. If you took showers with a bunch of hot co-workers and friends that were chicks, you wouldn't check them out because that would VIOLATE THE NATURE OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP? You would do it even inadvertently just because thats human nature. you have to be kidding yourself with this "violate our freindship" for the sake of this argument because there is no way that's true.

There's nothing perverted or wrong with being gay, but I'm fairly sure any gay guy would like to be in a locker room with a Tom Brady, or sh*t mr. wrangler jeans Brett Favre etc, and thats kind creepy to say the least.

If you were one of Danica Patricks crew chiefs and yall showered together, would you never accidently check her out because that would "violate the nature of your freindship"? f*ck no, and thats probably why those situations don't happen, and they shouldnt, just like openly gay guys in a professional football locker room.

i guess i need to be more clear.

of course you would look at your naked coworkers. straight guys in the NFL look at each other naked. But do they ogle and make each other feel uncomfortable? Do they do it in a creepy way that would harm the fabric of the team? No, of course not, and that includes the gay players--because there are certainly gay players on NFL teams (and NBA, MLB, etc) as we speak, they're just not open about it.

so if I were showering with a bunch of co workers who were hot chicks, sure, I'd peek, I'd check them out, but would I do it in a way that would make going to work every day extremely uncomfortable for everyone? No, that would be stupid.

again, the "gay guys can't be on NFL teams because they would make the straight players uncomfortable in the shower argument" is completely stupid and a red herring. Gay guys can't be openly gay in the NFL because of a homophobic culture based on outdated definitions of manhood.

and, once again: would openly gay players check out their teammates more than closeted gay players?
Originally posted by BobS:

You aren't the norm. The average guy is going to check out naked chicks unless they are blood relatives. Being a gay guy in the NFL would be like allowing a straight guy in the changing room at a super model convention. So unless the straight NFL guys are allowed to go shower with the cheerleaders, the gay guys don't belong in the locker room. They should have their own showers, or I guess you could put them with the cheerleaders as they would view a naked woman the way we view naked guys (gross). Guy gays are probably the most promiscuous group on the planet, to say they wouldn't be checking out guys junk makes no sense.

you certainly know a lot about "gay culture."
Originally posted by HessianDud:


i guess i need to be more clear.

of course you would look at your naked coworkers. straight guys in the NFL look at each other naked. But do they ogle and make each other feel uncomfortable? Do they do it in a creepy way that would harm the fabric of the team? No, of course not, and that includes the gay players--because there are certainly gay players on NFL teams (and NBA, MLB, etc) as we speak, they're just not open about it.

so if I were showering with a bunch of co workers who were hot chicks, sure, I'd peek, I'd check them out, but would I do it in a way that would make going to work every day extremely uncomfortable for everyone? No, that would be stupid.

again, the "gay guys can't be on NFL teams because they would make the straight players uncomfortable in the shower argument" is completely stupid and a red herring. Gay guys can't be openly gay in the NFL because of a homophobic culture based on outdated definitions of manhood.

and, once again: would openly gay players check out their teammates more than closeted gay players?

you're completely missing the point. Do openly gay players check out teammates more than closeted gay players? Does it matter?

Would Ray Lewis have the same effect on the field if he was openly gay from day 1? Would he really be the same player, cuz based on your answer to that question i think arguing w/ you is pointless.

I would relate it to sharks in the water... Look I've surfed a ton of times down here in souther california, and guaranteed there has been a time or 2 when I've been surfing and there have been sharks around me, maybe even swam underneath me. If i don't know that they are there, i could care less, it isn't even on my mind. But if i knew that thy were there, regardless if they were hungry or not, I'd get the f*ck out of the water.
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by HessianDud:


i guess i need to be more clear.

of course you would look at your naked coworkers. straight guys in the NFL look at each other naked. But do they ogle and make each other feel uncomfortable? Do they do it in a creepy way that would harm the fabric of the team? No, of course not, and that includes the gay players--because there are certainly gay players on NFL teams (and NBA, MLB, etc) as we speak, they're just not open about it.

so if I were showering with a bunch of co workers who were hot chicks, sure, I'd peek, I'd check them out, but would I do it in a way that would make going to work every day extremely uncomfortable for everyone? No, that would be stupid.

again, the "gay guys can't be on NFL teams because they would make the straight players uncomfortable in the shower argument" is completely stupid and a red herring. Gay guys can't be openly gay in the NFL because of a homophobic culture based on outdated definitions of manhood.

and, once again: would openly gay players check out their teammates more than closeted gay players?

you're completely missing the point. Do openly gay players check out teammates more than closeted gay players? Does it matter?

sure it matters. the "reasoning" behind why gay players shouldn't come out of the closet is that they'll make the locker room uncomfortable. if those gay players are currently existing on NFL teams with no "gay problems," what difference does it make if they're out of the closet or in?

Quote:
Would Ray Lewis have the same effect on the field if he was openly gay from day 1? Would he really be the same player, cuz based on your answer to that question i think arguing w/ you is pointless.

i'm sorry, i don't understand this. are you asking me a question or stating that arguing with me is pointless? It seems like you are asking me a question and then making a judgment about me based on an answer I haven't given yet.

Ray Lewis would be the same player regardless of sexual orientation if everything else about him was the same. of course, that's a pointless parlor game, because we all know that sexuality and persona are bound together. In theory, yes, but also in theory, no.

Quote:
I would relate it to sharks in the water... Look I've surfed a ton of times down here in souther california, and guaranteed there has been a time or 2 when I've been surfing and there have been sharks around me, maybe even swam underneath me. If i don't know that they are there, i could care less, it isn't even on my mind. But if i knew that thy were there, regardless if they were hungry or not, I'd get the f*ck out of the water.

gay people = sharks in the water.

ok. there isn't any reason in talking to you about this.
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by kray28:
Hearst got in trouble just a short decade ago for basically saying the same thing in a slightly less diplomatic fashion....he was roasted by the NFL, the media, and the team and forced to apologize.

But the truth is that while the NFL is happy to pay political lip service to the gay community, it has unwritten rules about what basically amounts to a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy when it comes to homosexuals in the locker room.

A certain component of a player's success is political...the coach and your peers have to like you enough to want to play with you. Being gay basically limits that possibility totally and completely. So if you re in fact gay, you better not let them know.

Someone has to break the barrier, man. It was the same for black players at one time too. Someone will eventually!

but homosexuality isnt a race its a choice, thats y they will never break the barrier.
Originally posted by phatbutskinny:
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by kray28:
Hearst got in trouble just a short decade ago for basically saying the same thing in a slightly less diplomatic fashion....he was roasted by the NFL, the media, and the team and forced to apologize.

But the truth is that while the NFL is happy to pay political lip service to the gay community, it has unwritten rules about what basically amounts to a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy when it comes to homosexuals in the locker room.

A certain component of a player's success is political...the coach and your peers have to like you enough to want to play with you. Being gay basically limits that possibility totally and completely. So if you re in fact gay, you better not let them know.

Someone has to break the barrier, man. It was the same for black players at one time too. Someone will eventually!

but homosexuality isnt a race its a choice, thats y they will never break the barrier.

that's just, like, your opinion, man.
  • crzy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,272
lol you guys are funny.


The "I won't be comfortable with gay guys looking at me in the shower" argument is dumb.

Female reporters walk into NFL locker rooms all the time while naked athletes are walking around.

If there was an open gay athlete in a locker room....I would bet money that the gay guy would be more uncomfortable then the homophobic athletes who were staring at him.
Originally posted by crzy:
lol you guys are funny.


The "I won't be comfortable with gay guys looking at me in the shower" argument is dumb.

Female reporters walk into NFL locker rooms all the time while naked athletes are walking around.

If there was an open gay athlete in a locker room....I would bet money that the gay guy would be more uncomfortable then the homophobic athletes who were staring at him.

this.

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