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Marcellus Wiley says NFL culture still has "no tolerance" for homosexuality

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:


Locker room division between men/women is premised on the concept of privacy from sexual attraction while a person undressess/showers.

Edit: And isn't legal? You don't know what you are talking about

/thread

and if you don't understand that concept, then you are CLEARLY CHILDISH AND NAIVE AND ARE RACIST!
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:


Locker room division between men/women is premised on the concept of privacy from sexual attraction while a person undressess/showers.

Edit: And isn't legal? You don't know what you are talking about

/thread

and if you don't understand that concept, then you are CLEARLY CHILDISH AND NAIVE AND ARE RACIST!

welcome back
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by MadMoneyMarshall:
Originally posted by bigmike55:
What if one of our players were secretly in the closet?

who cares?


s**t man if that was true my friends wouldn't let me hear the end of it.

People already tease us (as fans) for it anyway, whether its true or not. I know I hear about it from a few of my friends from time to time.

How do you come back on them PTulini? I need some ideas.

I just don't worry about. Let them say what they want. They're Eagles fans anyway. When's the last time they won a Super Bowl... 1960? At least we haven't lost a Super Bowl! That shuts them up really fast!



My friends are Cowboy fans.

you think tony romo's straight he broke up with Jessica Simpson?
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:


Locker room division between men/women is premised on the concept of privacy from sexual attraction while a person undressess/showers.

Edit: And isn't legal? You don't know what you are talking about

/thread

and if you don't understand that concept, then you are CLEARLY CHILDISH AND NAIVE AND ARE RACIST!

sun hits a bulls eye, but I dont understand the racist reference chile?
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Originally posted by tjd808185:


Nowhere did he imply that gays shouldn't have jobs. It was ridiculous for you to counter with that. You weren't emphazing the sentence before the comma, you were doing a hackjob on words.

The rest of your post has been bounced around at least 20 times. Some people here aren't comfortable showering with people who could be attracted to them, but obviously you aren't. Kudos to you.

I get why someone is uncomfortable showering with a gay person, that scenario is uncomfortable, but at the same time if the difference is a couple of glances then it's grow up because the guy shouldn't have to repress his life. But I stand by the statement that it shouldn't happen to the Niners. F*ck that I'm not risking a season over this. Let some other team kill their locker room.


Again, I was clearly being facetious.

As for the emphasis on the sentence, I was emphasizing his empathy for those who would choose to discriminate against somebody for things that are beyond their control instead of empathizing with those being discriminated against. That's all. As I've stated twice now, my statement about jobs was clearly facetious. That said, as far as overstatements go, the absolutely preposterous and repeated insistence in this thread that a player who happened to be gay would dedicate his pre and post game locker room preparation to sexually fantasizing about his teammates goes unchecked by you. It's fine for us to disagree, but I think there's a double standard here. Are all of these people being facetious when concocting this hypothetical, gay sexual obsessive? It doesn't seem like it.

Just as some background, I have a friend who knew he was gay when he was 12, but he was (albeit young at that point) a very competitive soccer player. At 12 he realized he either had to be gay, or keep playing soccer competitively. He couldn't do both. He was 12, so he picked soccer. He played through high school, through college on a scholarship, and then contemplated killing himself. He couldn't do it anymore. He now outshines everyone on the field in a mostly non-competitive, gay friendly, amateur league. My empathy lies with him, not with his teammates in high school and college who spent their free time making fun of f***ots.

We can bandy back and forth about what NFL players think, but this thread is based on the statement of an actual NFL player who is much more inline with my thinking on this than yours. I'm siding with Wiley, some people are siding with Hearst ("I wouldn't play with a punk f***ot"). What else is there to say?


Willis -- Good stuff. I apologize for making you feel like I was trying to back you into a corner, and I REALLY wasn't trying to say you were bigoted or hateful.

Once again you're completely mischaracterizing what people are saying. Nobody is saying that a gay player is just going to pop off boners in the locker room all of the time. That being said you're kidding yourself if you think he's not going to make some glances here and there. It's human nature. When 10's walk by at the beach what percentage of men do you think not takes a look here and there?

I think we're pretty much on the same page with everything else. Don't get me wrong here I do think that these athletes should understand that it's going to be alot more awkward for the gay guy, and I have no problem with someone outside of the Niner organization coming out of the closet.

No, I'm not. And please don't mischaracterize what I said by implying that I said people think gay players will "pop off boners in the locker room all the time." It's far from what I said.

Go back through the thread and you'll repeatedly see that the argument is that gay players will be more focused on their sexual urges than on preparing for the game. The consistent implication is that gay players will be checking out straight players at a rate greater than straight players will be checking out each other. It is plainly and simply a homophobic over-sexualization of gay men. What you as a straight man does on a beach while hanging out has NOTHING to do with players focusing and concentrating on the task at hand in a work setting. When you have a meeting with your boss do you spend the entire conversation staring at her breasts? I'd hope not, most people don't. Do straight players repeatedly fumble the ball and throw interceptions because there are scantily clad cheerleaders on the sideline? Isn't this all a rehash of the debate about women reporters in the locker room from a decade ago and didn't we all come to our collective senses and realize people are capable of doing their jobs?

All of these herrings about overly-sexualized gay men are beside the point. This is about straight men being uncomfortable around gay men. Nothing more. Excusing those discomforts with an ever-changing laundry list of why those fears are justified is both rationally AND morally bankrupt, in my opinion. If we disagree, it's fine for us to disagree.
[ Edited by PopeyeJonesing on Jul 23, 2010 at 12:36 PM ]
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Originally posted by tjd808185:


Nowhere did he imply that gays shouldn't have jobs. It was ridiculous for you to counter with that. You weren't emphazing the sentence before the comma, you were doing a hackjob on words.

The rest of your post has been bounced around at least 20 times. Some people here aren't comfortable showering with people who could be attracted to them, but obviously you aren't. Kudos to you.

I get why someone is uncomfortable showering with a gay person, that scenario is uncomfortable, but at the same time if the difference is a couple of glances then it's grow up because the guy shouldn't have to repress his life. But I stand by the statement that it shouldn't happen to the Niners. F*ck that I'm not risking a season over this. Let some other team kill their locker room.


Again, I was clearly being facetious.

As for the emphasis on the sentence, I was emphasizing his empathy for those who would choose to discriminate against somebody for things that are beyond their control instead of empathizing with those being discriminated against. That's all. As I've stated twice now, my statement about jobs was clearly facetious. That said, as far as overstatements go, the absolutely preposterous and repeated insistence in this thread that a player who happened to be gay would dedicate his pre and post game locker room preparation to sexually fantasizing about his teammates goes unchecked by you. It's fine for us to disagree, but I think there's a double standard here. Are all of these people being facetious when concocting this hypothetical, gay sexual obsessive? It doesn't seem like it.

Just as some background, I have a friend who knew he was gay when he was 12, but he was (albeit young at that point) a very competitive soccer player. At 12 he realized he either had to be gay, or keep playing soccer competitively. He couldn't do both. He was 12, so he picked soccer. He played through high school, through college on a scholarship, and then contemplated killing himself. He couldn't do it anymore. He now outshines everyone on the field in a mostly non-competitive, gay friendly, amateur league. My empathy lies with him, not with his teammates in high school and college who spent their free time making fun of f***ots.

We can bandy back and forth about what NFL players think, but this thread is based on the statement of an actual NFL player who is much more inline with my thinking on this than yours. I'm siding with Wiley, some people are siding with Hearst ("I wouldn't play with a punk f***ot"). What else is there to say?


Willis -- Good stuff. I apologize for making you feel like I was trying to back you into a corner, and I REALLY wasn't trying to say you were bigoted or hateful.

Once again you're completely mischaracterizing what people are saying. Nobody is saying that a gay player is just going to pop off boners in the locker room all of the time. That being said you're kidding yourself if you think he's not going to make some glances here and there. It's human nature. When 10's walk by at the beach what percentage of men do you think not takes a look here and there?

I think we're pretty much on the same page with everything else. Don't get me wrong here I do think that these athletes should understand that it's going to be alot more awkward for the gay guy, and I have no problem with someone outside of the Niner organization coming out of the closet.

No, I'm not. And please don't mischaracterize what I said by implying that I said people think gay players will "pop off boners in the locker room all the time." It's far from what I said.

Go back through the thread and you'll repeatedly see that the argument is that gay players will be more focused on their sexual urges than on preparing for the game. The consistent implication is that gay players will be checking out straight players at a rate greater than straight players will be checking out each other. It is plainly and simply a homophobic over-sexualization of gay men. What you as a straight man does on a beach while hanging out has NOTHING to do with players focusing and concentrating on the task at hand in a work setting. When you have a meeting with your boss do you spend the entire conversation staring at her breasts? I'd hope not, most people don't. Do straight players repeatedly fumble the ball and throw interceptions because there are scantily clad cheerleaders on the sideline? Isn't this all a rehash of the debate about women reporters in the locker room from a decade ago and didn't we all come to our collective senses and realize people are capable of doing their jobs?

All of these herrings about overly-sexualized gay men are beside the point. This is about straight men being uncomfortable around gay men. Nothing more. Excusing those discomforts with an ever-changing laundry list of why those fears are justified is both rationally AND morally bankrupt, in my opinion. If we disagree, it's fine for us to disagree.

I don't think anyone implied that, give me proof. Comparing the locker room to a business meeting. Are you serious? How many times have your boss ass tagged you in a business meeting? The locker room is not all cut throat business, man. It's a relax time as well similar to the relax time you have after working out at a gym. Even worse is your game time example. What inspired you to go there? Nobody said anything about sexually charged players on the field.

On to your points that actually make sense. I think you're right that a gay person isn't going to take more looks than a straight person does. Chances are a gay person is going to act more professional in the locker room. That's a fair point. You're also bring up a fair point about the women reporters. It's about doing a job, and a gay person has every right to be in that locker room.

Where I disagree with you is that I think this is an awkward situation for all sides involved. I'm not trying to excuse it, just acknowledge that it is an awkward situation.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Jul 23, 2010 at 1:36 PM ]
oh you Zoner homophobics....

look, we have a player on our team who waxes his eyebrows....OK!....I'm ok with it and SO should you.
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Originally posted by Afrikan:
oh you Zoner homophobics....

look, we have a player on our team who waxes his eyebrows....OK!....I'm ok with it and SO should you.

name 1 gay in the hall of fame.....
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
name 1 gay in the hall of fame.....

Troy Aikman.
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
name 1 gay in the hall of fame.....

all of them
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:


Locker room division between men/women is premised on the concept of privacy from sexual attraction while a person undressess/showers.

Edit: And isn't legal? You don't know what you are talking about

/thread

and if you don't understand that concept, then you are CLEARLY CHILDISH AND NAIVE AND ARE RACIST!

sun hits a bulls eye, but I dont understand the racist reference chile?

Hessain called me childish having the same view as Sun Devil, and that i should grow up. The racist comment was an over-exaggeration and uncalled for. In fact, it doesn't even makes sense.