Roethlisberger accused of sexual assault (suspended 6 games)

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
SD - You Win. Start a petition to free Ben. I'll sign.

Foreign - The conduct policy(like most employments policies in Corporate America) is designed to be flexible and ambiguous. Thus leaving much of the punitive measures to the judgment of the commissioner. So you will give yourself a headache trying to find equity in these cases and their various outcomes. Lastly, you should probably assume the commissioner is better informed than ourselves who rely solely on

I agree that it's designed to be flexible, I'm just worried that the media's reaction to this situation is what made Ben's suspension so lengthy. I know that there's nothing I can do but I feel as though the Commish is reacting to the public outrage, and the public is reacting to the media coverage.

For example, I haven't heard one media outlet give me her BAL at the time of the accusations. I haven't heard Ben's side of the story or the story of the people with him. I haven't heard the media explain why Ben was let off. They seem to be obsessed with what could have happened rather than what did happen.

I agree that the NFL should take action, however I don't feel it would have been as serious if the media hadn't run with this story. I don't feel sorry for Ben because he is the one putting himself in these bad situations, but he does seem to have been vilified without proof.

I know lol that's essentially what you were saying.

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
SD - You Win. Start a petition to free Ben. I'll sign.

Foreign - The conduct policy(like most employments policies in Corporate America) is designed to be flexible and ambiguous. Thus leaving much of the punitive measures to the judgment of the commissioner. So you will give yourself a headache trying to find equity in these cases and their various outcomes. Lastly, you should probably assume the commissioner is better informed than ourselves who rely solely on

I agree that it's designed to be flexible, I'm just worried that the media's reaction to this situation is what made Ben's suspension so lengthy. I know that there's nothing I can do but I feel as though the Commish is reacting to the public outrage, and the public is reacting to the media coverage.

For example, I haven't heard one media outlet give me her BAL at the time of the accusations. I haven't heard Ben's side of the story or the story of the people with him. I haven't heard the media explain why Ben was let off. They seem to be obsessed with what could have happened rather than what did happen.

I agree that the NFL should take action, however I don't feel it would have been as serious if the media hadn't run with this story. I don't feel sorry for Ben because he is the one putting himself in these bad situations, but he does seem to have been vilified without proof.

I've read several stories about the investigation itself and many of them can be found in this thread.

A 4 game suspension is longer than I thought would be handed down. But on one hand it makes sense to make an example of Roethlisberger. Its about not getting into stupid situations, being adults, and treating women right. There are far too many NFL players being accused of, convicted of violent crimes against women. If you lay down the hammer on a marquee QB, it might not only help him get his act together but others as well.

I understand that and I'm sure there are stories about the investigation and if I tried I could find Ben's side. My worry is that the common person won't. They only hear on CNN or ESPN or (insert big media company) the allegations this girl made and that Ben is possibly a rapist. I, personally, don't think it's fair for these news agencies to spread rumors at his expense just to keep people interested.

I understand that a message is being sent and that's my point. Would a message have been sent if the media hadn't picked up on it? I don't think so. I think this was a reaction to this story becoming bigger than just the NFL. They gave him this suspension to save face publicly and are hiding behind the conduct policy (which has been broken numerous times before without suspensions).

The moment she pressed charges was the moment you can't call this a rumor. She filed a claim in public of an allegation to a crime.

Are you saying you want the media to ignore those things. Last I checked that is basically their whole purpose.

Also. You seem to be implying that the NFL has no real desire for their employees to behave lets say a more conservative lifestyle.

What saving face?

I think they really do want to change what type of activities these guys are doing outside of football. This is their tool to work to that end.

I don't think they are trying to hide anything.

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:

-9fA

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
SD - You Win. Start a petition to free Ben. I'll sign.

Foreign - The conduct policy(like most employments policies in Corporate America) is designed to be flexible and ambiguous. Thus leaving much of the punitive measures to the judgment of the commissioner. So you will give yourself a headache trying to find equity in these cases and their various outcomes. Lastly, you should probably assume the commissioner is better informed than ourselves who rely solely on

I agree that it's designed to be flexible, I'm just worried that the media's reaction to this situation is what made Ben's suspension so lengthy. I know that there's nothing I can do but I feel as though the Commish is reacting to the public outrage, and the public is reacting to the media coverage.

For example, I haven't heard one media outlet give me her BAL at the time of the accusations. I haven't heard Ben's side of the story or the story of the people with him. I haven't heard the media explain why Ben was let off. They seem to be obsessed with what could have happened rather than what did happen.

I agree that the NFL should take action, however I don't feel it would have been as serious if the media hadn't run with this story. I don't feel sorry for Ben because he is the one putting himself in these bad situations, but he does seem to have been vilified without proof.

I've read several stories about the investigation itself and many of them can be found in this thread.

A 4 game suspension is longer than I thought would be handed down. But on one hand it makes sense to make an example of Roethlisberger. Its about not getting into stupid situations, being adults, and treating women right. There are far too many NFL players being accused of, convicted of violent crimes against women. If you lay down the hammer on a marquee QB, it might not only help him get his act together but others as well.

I understand that and I'm sure there are stories about the investigation and if I tried I could find Ben's side. My worry is that the common person won't. They only hear on CNN or ESPN or (insert big media company) the allegations this girl made and that Ben is possibly a rapist. I, personally, don't think it's fair for these news agencies to spread rumors at his expense just to keep people interested.

I understand that a message is being sent and that's my point. Would a message have been sent if the media hadn't picked up on it? I don't think so. I think this was a reaction to this story becoming bigger than just the NFL. They gave him this suspension to save face publicly and are hiding behind the conduct policy (which has been broken numerous times before without suspensions).

The moment she pressed charges was the moment you can't call this a rumor. She filed a claim in public of an allegation to a crime.

Are you saying you want the media to ignore those things. Last I checked that is basically their whole purpose.

Also. You seem to be implying that the NFL has no real desire for their employees to behave lets say a more conservative lifestyle.

What saving face?

I think they really do want to change what type of activities these guys are doing outside of football. This is their tool to work to that end.

I don't think they are trying to hide anything.

I disagree. For me, he has to be convicted for it to be more than rumor. An allegation is just an official rumor. She is making it official that this is what she believes, but there's still no proof.


If they were sending a message about conduct why not suspend that Colts player? Why not suspend Ben the first time? Are they saying they don't allow players to have charges pressed against them twice? But the first time it's alright?

also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

I also see a pattern of young drunk girls claiming rape then not being able to back up their stories. I'm not arguing his morals, just the facts. He's not a rapist, he's a guy who bangs chicks 8 years younger than him in bar bathrooms.

The second he pays a dime in a civil suit I will think differently. These girls would get some kind of money if they were right at all. Even if they had a shred of truth to their stories they'd get some kind of money. The fact that they are not only coming away empty-handed, but that one is being counter-sued tells me a lot.

I'm not defending Ben's decision making or judgment, just the fact that he's a rapist. It's not fair to call him one on pure speculation and the words of two drunk college girls.

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

I also see a pattern of young drunk girls claiming rape then not being able to back up their stories. I'm not arguing his morals, just the facts. He's not a rapist, he's a guy who bangs chicks 8 years younger than him in bar bathrooms.

The second he pays a dime in a civil suit I will think differently. These girls would get some kind of money if they were right at all. Even if they had a shred of truth to their stories they'd get some kind of money. The fact that they are not only coming away empty-handed, but that one is being counter-sued tells me a lot.

I'm not defending Ben's decision making or judgment, just the fact that he's a rapist. It's not fair to call him one on pure speculation and the words of two drunk college girls.

YES. Finally we are getting somewhere!!!!

YES. YOU recognize the pattern of these college girls claiming rape and maybe trying to get paid or famous or whatever.

AWESOME.

Let me ask you a question.

How come Ben does not recognize this pattern?

That is why he is in violation of the conduct policy. Because he is not taking reasonable steps to avoid situations that his employer has asked him to avoid on a previous matter.

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

Accused 1,000 times means nothing. I can accuse you of someting. I can say Danimal raped me. And I can say Danimal raped me again. There is twice. See how easy that was. Without any proof it's pretty easy to say that.

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

I also see a pattern of young drunk girls claiming rape then not being able to back up their stories. I'm not arguing his morals, just the facts. He's not a rapist, he's a guy who bangs chicks 8 years younger than him in bar bathrooms.

The second he pays a dime in a civil suit I will think differently. These girls would get some kind of money if they were right at all. Even if they had a shred of truth to their stories they'd get some kind of money. The fact that they are not only coming away empty-handed, but that one is being counter-sued tells me a lot.

I'm not defending Ben's decision making or judgment, just the fact that he's a rapist. It's not fair to call him one on pure speculation and the words of two drunk college girls.

FWIW, I read in an article--and it was unsubstantiated, might not be true--that Roethlisberger has paid this second girl an undisclosed amount to avoid a civil suit. I have to leave right now so I'll try to find the story later, but I'm pretty sure you could find it in this thread, and I think it was from SI?

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

I also see a pattern of young drunk girls claiming rape then not being able to back up their stories. I'm not arguing his morals, just the facts. He's not a rapist, he's a guy who bangs chicks 8 years younger than him in bar bathrooms.

The second he pays a dime in a civil suit I will think differently. These girls would get some kind of money if they were right at all. Even if they had a shred of truth to their stories they'd get some kind of money. The fact that they are not only coming away empty-handed, but that one is being counter-sued tells me a lot.

I'm not defending Ben's decision making or judgment, just the fact that he's a rapist. It's not fair to call him one on pure speculation and the words of two drunk college girls.

YES. Finally we are getting somewhere!!!!

YES. YOU recognize the pattern of these college girls claiming rape and maybe trying to get paid or famous or whatever.

AWESOME.

Let me ask you a question.

How come Ben does not recognize this pattern?

That is why he is in violation of the conduct policy. Because he is not taking reasonable steps to avoid situations that his employer has asked him to avoid on a previous matter.

I agree with you. My point is would it have been such a lengthy suspension if the media hadn't made such a big deal out of allegations?

I never once said that the NFL shouldn't have taken any action, that isn't my point at all. Maybe you're confusing my argument with somebody Else's.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

I also see a pattern of young drunk girls claiming rape then not being able to back up their stories. I'm not arguing his morals, just the facts. He's not a rapist, he's a guy who bangs chicks 8 years younger than him in bar bathrooms.

The second he pays a dime in a civil suit I will think differently. These girls would get some kind of money if they were right at all. Even if they had a shred of truth to their stories they'd get some kind of money. The fact that they are not only coming away empty-handed, but that one is being counter-sued tells me a lot.

I'm not defending Ben's decision making or judgment, just the fact that he's a rapist. It's not fair to call him one on pure speculation and the words of two drunk college girls.

FWIW, I read in an article--and it was unsubstantiated, might not be true--that Roethlisberger has paid this second girl an undisclosed amount to avoid a civil suit. I have to leave right now so I'll try to find the story later, but I'm pretty sure you could find it in this thread, and I think it was from SI?

I have to go too . If you can find that article though I'd be very interested in reading it.

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

I also see a pattern of young drunk girls claiming rape then not being able to back up their stories. I'm not arguing his morals, just the facts. He's not a rapist, he's a guy who bangs chicks 8 years younger than him in bar bathrooms.

The second he pays a dime in a civil suit I will think differently. These girls would get some kind of money if they were right at all. Even if they had a shred of truth to their stories they'd get some kind of money. The fact that they are not only coming away empty-handed, but that one is being counter-sued tells me a lot.

I'm not defending Ben's decision making or judgment, just the fact that he's a rapist. It's not fair to call him one on pure speculation and the words of two drunk college girls.

YES. Finally we are getting somewhere!!!!

YES. YOU recognize the pattern of these college girls claiming rape and maybe trying to get paid or famous or whatever.

AWESOME.

Let me ask you a question.

How come Ben does not recognize this pattern?

That is why he is in violation of the conduct policy. Because he is not taking reasonable steps to avoid situations that his employer has asked him to avoid on a previous matter.

I agree with you. My point is would it have been such a lengthy suspension if the media hadn't made such a big deal out of allegations?

I never once said that the NFL shouldn't have taken any action, that isn't my point at all. Maybe you're confusing my argument with somebody Else's.

well you seem to be going back and forth on your feelings about the suspension, but anyway.

I think we are in agreement now.

I agree. The suspension probably was longer based on the perceived notion that this caused a larger degree of bad PR to the NFL, which of course is directly related to the excessive coverage.

But I fail to see how that is unfair. It is what it is.

ESPN also covers a Big Ben TD far too much, and covers an Alex Smith TD nowhere near enough. Catch my drift.

they covered Ben's rape allegation too much
they covered Ben's championship too much
they covered Ben's accident too much
they covered Ben's great escaped from a sack too much

They cover all the events and non events of Ben Roethlisbergers life too much.

Cest La Vie....and NOT Goodells problem. His interests is the NFL not losing customers. He believes he did about 6 games worth of damage to their rep. Thats his perogative.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

I also see a pattern of young drunk girls claiming rape then not being able to back up their stories. I'm not arguing his morals, just the facts. He's not a rapist, he's a guy who bangs chicks 8 years younger than him in bar bathrooms.

The second he pays a dime in a civil suit I will think differently. These girls would get some kind of money if they were right at all. Even if they had a shred of truth to their stories they'd get some kind of money. The fact that they are not only coming away empty-handed, but that one is being counter-sued tells me a lot.

I'm not defending Ben's decision making or judgment, just the fact that he's a rapist. It's not fair to call him one on pure speculation and the words of two drunk college girls.

FWIW, I read in an article--and it was unsubstantiated, might not be true--that Roethlisberger has paid this second girl an undisclosed amount to avoid a civil suit. I have to leave right now so I'll try to find the story later, but I'm pretty sure you could find it in this thread, and I think it was from SI?

Link? I haven't seen anything like that reported.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

Accused 1,000 times means nothing. I can accuse you of someting. I can say Danimal raped me. And I can say Danimal raped me again. There is twice. See how easy that was. Without any proof it's pretty easy to say that.

He did?

Was it good?

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by danimal:
also I have noticed that Huck, foreign, SD.....you all really avoid the whole pattern of behavior talk.

There is a concept that most people believe in which basically dictates that nobody is that unlucky.

What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, once
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, twice
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, three times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, four times
What if I was accused of rape and never charged criminally or civil, five times

Please tell me at some point you would support my employer suspending me.

Just appreciate that many of us, pretty much really start to listen on "twice"....but in this sense, EVERYBODY has a point where they would be forced to believe I am indeed a rapist.

I also see a pattern of young drunk girls claiming rape then not being able to back up their stories. I'm not arguing his morals, just the facts. He's not a rapist, he's a guy who bangs chicks 8 years younger than him in bar bathrooms.

The second he pays a dime in a civil suit I will think differently. These girls would get some kind of money if they were right at all. Even if they had a shred of truth to their stories they'd get some kind of money. The fact that they are not only coming away empty-handed, but that one is being counter-sued tells me a lot.

I'm not defending Ben's decision making or judgment, just the fact that he's a rapist. It's not fair to call him one on pure speculation and the words of two drunk college girls.

FWIW, I read in an article--and it was unsubstantiated, might not be true--that Roethlisberger has paid this second girl an undisclosed amount to avoid a civil suit. I have to leave right now so I'll try to find the story later, but I'm pretty sure you could find it in this thread, and I think it was from SI?

Link? I haven't seen anything like that reported.

You know, I must have mis-read something, or am confusing it with something else, because I can't find it. My sincere apologies.