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Be Honest, What would Garcon and Collie do as a 9er

Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Captain Obvious says: "Our team would be amazing if we had a QB as good as Peyton Manning!"

Tune in tomorrow for: "We'd be undefeated if we could only outscore our opponents!"

  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 585
Originally posted by 9erred:
If the Niners Drafted Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie, they probably would be considered busts. They would be sitting on the bench behind Arnaz battle and Michael Robinson would still be returning kicks.

My point is a great qb makes the WR. When Montana went to KC, the WR's said if they had Montana, they would have had pro bowl careers.

Austin Collie and Garcon would never have developed in the niners system in my opinion.

I also am convinced that jason Hill in a colts uniform would have produced as much as the aforementioned receivers.

Am I frustrated, heck yes.

Well, since you asked, lets look at this from a larger point of view than just yesterday. In his first year, Garcon had 4 catches for 33 yards. This year he had 46 catches for 765 yards and 3 TDs. In the first playoff game, he had 5 catches for 33 yards and no TDs. Austin Collie had 60 catches for 676 yards and 7 TDs. In the first playoff game, he had 4 catches for 52 yards and 1 TD.

Those are good numbers but they are not earth shattering, especially considering that Peyton Manning is the QB and both rarely, if ever, face double coverage. They both played great yesterday and deserve the praise for doing so but lets not get carried away.
Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by 9erred:
If the Niners Drafted Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie, they probably would be considered busts. They would be sitting on the bench behind Arnaz battle and Michael Robinson would still be returning kicks.

My point is a great qb makes the WR. When Montana went to KC, the WR's said if they had Montana, they would have had pro bowl careers.

Austin Collie and Garcon would never have developed in the niners system in my opinion.

I also am convinced that jason Hill in a colts uniform would have produced as much as the aforementioned receivers.

Am I frustrated, heck yes.

Well, since you asked, lets look at this from a larger point of view than just yesterday. In his first year, Garcon had 4 catches for 33 yards. This year he had 46 catches for 765 yards and 3 TDs. In the first playoff game, he had 5 catches for 33 yards and no TDs. Austin Collie had 60 catches for 676 yards and 7 TDs. In the first playoff game, he had 4 catches for 52 yards and 1 TD.

Those are good numbers but they are not earth shattering, especially considering that Peyton Manning is the QB and both rarely, if ever, face double coverage. They both played great yesterday and deserve the praise for doing so but lets not get carried away.


This is the zone though...
A guy was on KNBR today discussing how Manning works.

A new skill player gets an immediate text message ordering him to be on the field, in the morning, warmed up and ready to go. He then gets coached by Manning not only on the basics, but the subtle things that make him special. He is detailed and relentless. He is the OC, the coach and the boss like no other QB.

Players go through his system and either work out or flame out.

Kind of a far cry from the 9er way.

Smith might text them to please practice dunking so as to increase their vertical leaping skill...
Originally posted by jones49:
They would be B.Jones and A.Battle on our offense.

Agreed.

Seeing as how our offense is fundamentally different to that of the Colts, that if they were our 3rd and 4th option behind say Davis and Crabtree, they'd put up stats similar to those of Jones and Battle.

I would argue that it's moreso because of our offensive philosophy rather than the QB play behind why our WR depth is not used to its fullest extent.

-9fA
[ Edited by 9erfanAUS on Jan 25, 2010 at 5:51 PM ]
Originally posted by MaliCali:
Originally posted by 9erred:

My point is a great qb makes the WR.

okay so whats your point vince lombardi?

maybe when you are done you can explain to me why a round wheel works the best also..

Well, according to a couple of people over in the "A look at playoffs teams and their QB's" thread, there is no such thing as a great QB. Great QBs are only a result of the offensive line. So maybe Vince's statement there isn't as obvious to some folks as you might think.
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Btw, yours truly picked Garcon with his 49er draft :) If they kept stuff longer here I could prove it. Yes, I want a cookie.

I almost forgot and I kid you not...for those who remember I was hanging on Sidney Rice's nuts and him in my 9er mock. But most everyone said he was a project for coming out early his junior season.
I think it's obvious that they'd be in the Pro-Bowl . . . except they couldn't play in the Pro-Bowl because we would have beat the Saints yesterday.
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
Originally posted by StOnEy333:
Originally posted by danimal:
One of the reasons I predicted the Colts to have a great season is I actually think Peyton Manning happens to be one of the best WR coaches in the league.

Wayne to a point, Dallas to a point
Gonzalez, Collie, Garcon......they all were made much better by Peyton. I think everyone except maybe Marvin would have been much worse without Peyton.

As for the Niners, they are pretty much the opposite, guys like Collie and Garcon would have their careers stunted severely playing here

Agreed. When I worked the Colts sideline I couldn't believe how Peyton was on the sideline. He talked to his recievers more than any coach I've seen on any other team.

His rookie year he and Marvin spent countless hours after practice working on routes--Edge joined them too after Peyton asked.

He still warms up with the Wrs before every game. He has them run the entire route tree. Seems like a no brainer, but hardly any teams do it lime that.
Originally posted by 9erred:
If the Niners Drafted Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie, they probably would be considered busts. They would be sitting on the bench behind Arnaz battle and Michael Robinson would still be returning kicks.

My point is a great qb makes the WR. When Montana went to KC, the WR's said if they had Montana, they would have had pro bowl careers.

Austin Collie and Garcon would never have developed in the niners system in my opinion.

I also am convinced that jason Hill in a colts uniform would have produced as much as the aforementioned receivers.

Am I frustrated, heck yes.

pace your frustration because it only going to get worse! Especially with Jimmy raye calling plays and inaccurate small handed can't feel the game alex & wonderland throwing the football to our slow recievers. Pace yourself!
Thing with the Colts is they draft very smart players they dont get all hyped of the athletic ones. Garcon is the real deal he is great and smart as hell I think Collie will grow into a really good 2 aswell. I wish we would take a page out of the Colts drafting but we wont.
So many smart asses on here! sheesh!
Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Thing with the Colts is they draft very smart players they dont get all hyped of the athletic ones. Garcon is the real deal he is great and smart as hell I think Collie will grow into a really good 2 aswell. I wish we would take a page out of the Colts drafting but we wont.

Page one first need:

Draft one of the best quarterbacks of all time

Their draft strategy is a friggn' luxury
Garcon and Collie would not flourish if developed in SF but both have talent. Peyton Manning is good but he only brings out the talent of his receivers. Over the years, Manning has not been able to get the lesser receivers to perform. They get shut down by defenses once their flaws appear on tape. He has been dependent upon Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark along with Marcus Pollard.

Case in point, the Colts are known for the use of two tight ends. It flourished with Marcus Pollard and Dallas Clark but since Pollard left the second TE has been anemic. This year defenses have been focusing on Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark. The second TE should have flourished since the Colts needed a third target. Gijon Robinson regressed from last year and had 3 catches, 62 yards. Peyton cannot make him productive, just as he couldn't make Ben Utecht before him.

The Colts have had many projects over the years at wide receiver that did not pan out. When Marvin Harrision had his injury problems in 2007, fifth year project Aaron Moorehead took his place -- five years of wasted roster space. He had 8 catches for 65 yards. Then there was Troy Walters, etc.

Both Austin Collie and especially Pierre Garcon were drafted as multi-year projects. Surprisingly, both have panned out quite quickly instead of the usual Colt routine of sparing use as WRs but with plenty of time on special teams until being tossed out.

Garcon and Collie are the real deals and should be productive for any team after being developed by Indianapolis if they ever leave the Colts due to salary cap issues.

And next year, it is likely that former first round pick Anthony Gonzalez coming back from IR will be the fourth receiver and should expect a quick exit from Indianapolis once his contract is up. He was meant as the replacement for Marvin Harrison.

And, in a sense, Pierre Garcon is a draft bust. He was not foreseen to be a good WR, just a project. He was drafted to return kicks but he turned out not to be very good at it. He lost his job last year after starting out the season as the main kick returner.
[ Edited by LivingInExile on Jan 26, 2010 at 4:15 PM ]
I thought Jerry Rice did a great job on making his QB's look good. hmm