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Jermichael Finley versus

Originally posted by YuNGaCE:
Can Finley block ? Davis is the a top flight blocking TE in the league Craig ! in the league !

I agree Davis is a very good blocker. From what I have seen, he is one of the best. I can't objectively say he is THE best as I haven't seen enough of the others to make that statement. Davis has some streaks where he just wipes guys out, and then he has brain pharts where he just misses his guy, as in a sweep against the Rams where a second-string DE pushed him 10 yards to the outside and stuffed Gore.

Finley CAN block, but he is not quite at Davis' level, from what I have seen.
  • krizay
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Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by valrod33:
78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS



And that's not enough for Vernon Davis critics. Unf**kingbelievable.

There are 40 things wrong with this team and they decide to single out the best player on our offense this past season.

Drops happen. Get over it. If Alex threw the ball more accurately, fewer drops would happen.

and that includes his drops and offsides penalties. he contributed a ton, but you have to point out his shortcomings too.

crzy, he is a great TE, his production was awesome, i couldnt ask for much more...but he could have much better numbers if he learned to catch the ball without jumping in the air like an idiot? is that really that a ridiculous thing to ask for as a fan? for a player to get better at something like catching if you are a TIGHT END?

He has gotten better, if he was as horrible at catching as most people make him out to be, why would any OC with any football knowledge base a whole passing game around him? Dude has insane talent, some drops were his fault, some weren't. He will continue to get better.

You mean like Super Bowl caliber OC's like Norv Turner or Mike Martz?


Good question!


Not really in the mood for a debate so.......



[ Edited by krizay on Jan 11, 2010 at 13:10:40 ]
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by valrod33:
55 catches for 676 yards and 5 TDS

vs

78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS

I don't REALLY care much either about who ELSE is good around the league, from a 49er perspective. However, the 49er games are not the only NFL games I watch. I enjoy watching other games and appreciating other talented players and good teams. I find it not only enjoyable, but it helps me better appreciate, and critique, the 49ers.

The point about Davis, AT THE TIME THE PRIOR THREAD WAS RUNNING, was that Davis was VERY over-rated on this board, in comparison to other players around the league. He is very good, but is the difference between his blocking ability and Billy Bajema, worth a #6 overall versus a FA? There are 5 or 6 other TEs in the league that are more reliable pass catchers than Davis - numbers not withstanding. Davis was the ONLY target for Hill/Smith most of the year. While that can be a double-edged sword, it also means his numbers were inflated in comparison to others who read defenses better, don't false start and don't drop passes.

As to the numbers, Finley was off to a great start, made some amazing catches, and then was out injured for four games. Davis was healthy the entire season. Also, Finley has to share the ball with three very good wideouts.

Davis IS a better blocker, that is not in question. But in every other category, Finley is better.

For now, I am just going to appreciate Finley and hope Davis has a much better season next fall.

I would argue more than 5 or 6. Other than that...... As you were


I didn't want to be accused of being a hater.

To me, Davis is a pumped-up 235 pound guy. I believe all the muscle he has packed on may be impeding his athleticism. Perhaps if he lost 10 pounds, he might be more agile.

Again, back to the Finley comparison, Finley has the ability to twist and turn his body and gets his hands on balls that Davis just can't reach. Finley has a fluidity that allows him to make the difficult catches seem easy.
  • krizay
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Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by valrod33:
55 catches for 676 yards and 5 TDS

vs

78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS

I don't REALLY care much either about who ELSE is good around the league, from a 49er perspective. However, the 49er games are not the only NFL games I watch. I enjoy watching other games and appreciating other talented players and good teams. I find it not only enjoyable, but it helps me better appreciate, and critique, the 49ers.

The point about Davis, AT THE TIME THE PRIOR THREAD WAS RUNNING, was that Davis was VERY over-rated on this board, in comparison to other players around the league. He is very good, but is the difference between his blocking ability and Billy Bajema, worth a #6 overall versus a FA? There are 5 or 6 other TEs in the league that are more reliable pass catchers than Davis - numbers not withstanding. Davis was the ONLY target for Hill/Smith most of the year. While that can be a double-edged sword, it also means his numbers were inflated in comparison to others who read defenses better, don't false start and don't drop passes.

As to the numbers, Finley was off to a great start, made some amazing catches, and then was out injured for four games. Davis was healthy the entire season. Also, Finley has to share the ball with three very good wideouts.

Davis IS a better blocker, that is not in question. But in every other category, Finley is better.

For now, I am just going to appreciate Finley and hope Davis has a much better season next fall.

I would argue more than 5 or 6. Other than that...... As you were


I didn't want to be accused of being a hater.




Comparing someone to "The Chosen One" isn't the best way to go about doing that.
Originally posted by YuNGaCE:
Can Finley block ? Davis is the a top flight blocking TE in the league Craig ! in the league !

Davis is the best Complete TE in the NFL to Date
Originally posted by dj43:
About the half way point of this past season, in a Vernon Davis thread, I suggested that Jermichael Finley was a better all-round TE than our own guy. My suggestion was that, with the exception of blocking, Finley was a better player: Better route runner, better hands, more athletic, reads defenses better, nearly as fast as Davis. Of course, I expected, and got, a lot of heat it for saying that.

Now I am not coming back to boast too much about my prior observation, just to say that Finley earned the kind of reputation from yesterday's performance that is going to make it harder for Davis to go back to the Pro Bowl next year. Close observers around the league have been saying since early in the season, that Finley is one of the next wave of young stars who would make their name well known soon. Though he missed four games during the season, and shared the ball with other good receiver at GB, he still put up some very nice numbers during the season, and certainly made those early prognosticators look good with the way he finished the season. Yesterday was no fluke.

So maybe you can say you heard it here first: Jermichael Finley is one of the elite TEs in the game.

Here's to the 'zone.

I'll give you a trophy if Finley outplays Vernon Davis for the next 5 years.....'till then stfu
  • titan
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Davis by far! put finley with on our team, he would be lucky if he gets 25 catches!
  • krizay
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Originally posted by WestCoast:
Originally posted by dj43:
About the half way point of this past season, in a Vernon Davis thread, I suggested that Jermichael Finley was a better all-round TE than our own guy. My suggestion was that, with the exception of blocking, Finley was a better player: Better route runner, better hands, more athletic, reads defenses better, nearly as fast as Davis. Of course, I expected, and got, a lot of heat it for saying that.

Now I am not coming back to boast too much about my prior observation, just to say that Finley earned the kind of reputation from yesterday's performance that is going to make it harder for Davis to go back to the Pro Bowl next year. Close observers around the league have been saying since early in the season, that Finley is one of the next wave of young stars who would make their name well known soon. Though he missed four games during the season, and shared the ball with other good receiver at GB, he still put up some very nice numbers during the season, and certainly made those early prognosticators look good with the way he finished the season. Yesterday was no fluke.

So maybe you can say you heard it here first: Jermichael Finley is one of the elite TEs in the game.

Here's to the 'zone.

I'll give you a trophy if Finley outplays Vernon Davis for the next 5 years.....'till then stfu

Originally posted by dj43:
About the half way point of this past season, in a Vernon Davis thread, I suggested that Jermichael Finley was a better all-round TE than our own guy. My suggestion was that, with the exception of blocking, Finley was a better player: Better route runner, better hands, more athletic, reads defenses better, nearly as fast as Davis. Of course, I expected, and got, a lot of heat it for saying that.

Now I am not coming back to boast too much about my prior observation, just to say that Finley earned the kind of reputation from yesterday's performance that is going to make it harder for Davis to go back to the Pro Bowl next year. Close observers around the league have been saying since early in the season, that Finley is one of the next wave of young stars who would make their name well known soon. Though he missed four games during the season, and shared the ball with other good receiver at GB, he still put up some very nice numbers during the season, and certainly made those early prognosticators look good with the way he finished the season. Yesterday was no fluke.

So maybe you can say you heard it here first: Jermichael Finley is one of the elite TEs in the game.

Here's to the 'zone.

I think statistics largely dictate the outcome of comparing Vernon Davis to Jermichael Finley.

Vernon Davis, while having superior numbers, was targeted 116 times over sixteen games for an average of 7.25 throws per game. Jermichael Finley was targeted 71 times over thirteen games for an average of 4.5 throws per game. Prorated over sixteen games based on targets, Davis' still comes out statistically superior.

Finley also lacks severely in blocking, which reduces his roll significantly on first and second downs. In this way, Donald Lee saw significant snaps throughout the season. Vernon Davis doesn't share snaps and doesn't take plays off.

The final issue is Finley's down field speed. While his YPC is inline with Davis', Finley doesn't have the vertical speed Davis does. His 4.66 40 yard dash at the 2007 combine proves this.

I think most of the NFL already knew Finley's abilities are indeed special. His negatives (blocking, experience) have been largely masked by other positives (route running, hands). He most reminds me of Shannon Sharpe; dominating physical presence with above average hands and speed, but lacking in blocking technique and wide receiver speed. He should be a good one, assuming he keeps healthy.

[ Edited by redrathman on Jan 11, 2010 at 13:30:00 ]
Originally posted by titan:
Davis by far! put finley with on our team, he would be lucky if he gets 25 catches!

No offense, but you obviously have not seen Finley play very much.
One final post before I have to leave for the day.

RE: Davis' route running - two pictures one general, one specific.

After four years, Davis still does not know how to use the umpire to his advantage. Sometimes he slows down, sometimes adjusts behind the ump, sometimes in front, sometimes he just stops. I have watched this for four years and it isn't any better. In at least two different broadcasts this year, the announcer has commented on Davis breaking off routes, making it hard on his QB.

One specific example the typifies the problems he causes with his poor routes:
In a game about mid-season, IIRC, Davis was split out five hards, Morgan was flanked another five outside Davis. Davis is supposed to take two steps up field and then run a slant. Morgan is supposed to mirror the pattern 10 yard further up field. So the DB on Davis jumps up on Davis inside shoulder, and Davis, instead of fighting through the DB (who he outweighed by 40 pounds), ran sort of a lazy circle behind the DB, which took him into the space where Morgan was supposed to be running his slant. So Morgan, seeing Davis breaking off the route, ran a rather lazy-looking sluggo and Smith's pass went right where Morgan should have been if Davis had not influenced him to run deeper.

You might call this inexperience on both receivers part but Morgan was CLEARLY influenced by Davis' break in pattern and the result was a pick 6.

These are the kinds of things one must consider besides just the stats. Davis has a lot of room to improve.
  • titan
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Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by titan:
Davis by far! put finley with on our team, he would be lucky if he gets 25 catches!

No offense, but you obviously have not seen Finley play very much.

I seen him play! I would rather have the TE from Eagles than Finley. Sorry I'm not a Greenbay fan!
Originally posted by titan:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by titan:
Davis by far! put finley with on our team, he would be lucky if he gets 25 catches!

No offense, but you obviously have not seen Finley play very much.

I seen him play! I would rather have the TE from Eagles than Finley. Sorry I'm not a Greenbay fan!

Celek is one of the top 5 IMO.
Give Vernon an Aaron Rodgers pro bowl caliber QB and this wouldn't be close.