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Jermichael Finley versus

Originally posted by Thizz415:
Finley looks great and like someone said he is a better version of Walker. I do agree that he is a better route runner and has better hands but he gets put in better situations than Davis and they go to him. We learned this year how to use davis more but he haven't taken advantage of the mismatches at times. If Vernon can learn how to not drop the ball that much and stop getting false starts then he would be the best TE but until that he is will not be a top 3 TE. Top 5 yes but not the best unless he fixes those problems.

To my eye, Finley is just a much more agile, graceful athlete. He makes the difficult look easy. Davis is more mechanical.

Frankly, the 49ers don't need Davis to be the best. Just cut the drops in half and no more false starts and the team will improve the 3rd down conversions by 20%.

One of the local writers, I can't recall which one, wrote after the Philly game, IIRC, that on possessions in which Davis false started or dropped a pass, the 49ers did not convert any 3rd downs. For an offense that clearly struggled, to have a player in a position, TE, that is, by definition supposed to be that go to guy for possession, to be the opposite, certainly indicates an area that needs improvement, as you noted. Now add in the well-chronicled inability to run clean, predictable routes, and there is MUCH room to improve.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by valrod33:
55 catches for 676 yards and 5 TDS

vs

78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS

I don't REALLY care much either about who ELSE is good around the league, from a 49er perspective. However, the 49er games are not the only NFL games I watch. I enjoy watching other games and appreciating other talented players and good teams. I find it not only enjoyable, but it helps me better appreciate, and critique, the 49ers.

The point about Davis, AT THE TIME THE PRIOR THREAD WAS RUNNING, was that Davis was VERY over-rated on this board, in comparison to other players around the league. He is very good, but is the difference between his blocking ability and Billy Bajema, worth a #6 overall versus a FA? There are 5 or 6 other TEs in the league that are more reliable pass catchers than Davis - numbers not withstanding. Davis was the ONLY target for Hill/Smith most of the year. While that can be a double-edged sword, it also means his numbers were inflated in comparison to others who read defenses better, don't false start and don't drop passes.

As to the numbers, Finley was off to a great start, made some amazing catches, and then was out injured for four games. Davis was healthy the entire season. Also, Finley has to share the ball with three very good wideouts.

Davis IS a better blocker, that is not in question. But in every other category, Finley is better.

For now, I am just going to appreciate Finley and hope Davis has a much better season next fall.


Haha, yes. I just posted this exact same thing in the Wild Cards Games Thread yesterday, and got called an attention whore, laughed at like i was an idiot of Niner Talk, and someone "who will find something to complain about" even if VD almost breask the Td record.


I'm not complaining about Vernon, I love him, and I love that he is on our team. I think he is elite, but I, WOULD RATHER HAVE JermF.

Look when you are a receiver, and ESPECIALLY a tight end, the #1 thing that I look for is hands. And JermF has muchhhhh better hands (well most TE's in the NFL have better hands), and the athleticism to compete with Vernon on an elite level. and he will for many years. Check out both of their second year stats, and vernon played more games.

I would rather take a reliable TE, over an unreliable really fast TE. If by mid season, i don't cringe when the ball is going Vernon's way on third and 5, I'll take back my statement (that pretty much depends on whether or not vernon is still jumping three feet in the air just to catch a simple in-route, which probably wont change).



Dj, to maybe being the only two to who think like this (krizay doesn't count)

[ Edited by DynastyChile on Jan 11, 2010 at 11:56:23 ]
  • luv49rs
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Originally posted by luv49rs:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by luv49rs:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by valrod33:
55 catches for 676 yards and 5 TDS

vs

78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS

I don't REALLY care much either about who ELSE is good around the league, from a 49er perspective. However, the 49er games are not the only NFL games I watch. I enjoy watching other games and appreciating other talented players and good teams. I find it not only enjoyable, but it helps me better appreciate, and critique, the 49ers.

The point about Davis, AT THE TIME THE PRIOR THREAD WAS RUNNING, was that Davis was VERY over-rated on this board, in comparison to other players around the league. He is very good, but is the difference between his blocking ability and Billy Bajema, worth a #6 overall versus a FA? There are 5 or 6 other TEs in the league that are more reliable pass catchers than Davis - numbers not withstanding. Davis was the ONLY target for Hill/Smith most of the year. While that can be a double-edged sword, it also means his numbers were inflated in comparison to others who read defenses better, don't false start and don't drop passes.

As to the numbers, Finley was off to a great start, made some amazing catches, and then was out injured for four games. Davis was healthy the entire season. Also, Finley has to share the ball with three very good wideouts.

Davis IS a better blocker, that is not in question. But in every other category, Finley is better.

For now, I am just going to appreciate Finley and hope Davis has a much better season next fall.


Haha, yes. I just posted this exact same thing in the Wild Cards Games Thread yesterday, and got called an attention whore, laughed at like i was an idiot of Niner Talk, and someone "who will find something to complain about" even if VD almost breask the Td record.


I'm not complaining about Vernon, I love him, and I love that he is on our team. I think he is elite, but I, WOULD RATHER HAVE JermF.

Look when you are a receiver, and ESPECIALLY a tight end, the #1 thing that I look for is hands. And JermF has muchhhhh better hands (well most TE's in the NFL have better hands), and the athleticism to compete with Vernon on an elite level. and he will for many years. Check out both of their second year stats, and vernon played more games.

I would rather take a reliable TE, over an unreliable really fast TE. If by mid season, i don't cringe when the ball is going Vernon's way on third and 5, I'll take back my statement (that pretty much depends on whether or not vernon is still jumping three feet in the air just to catch a simple in-route, which probably wont change).



Dj, to maybe being the only two to who think like this (krizay doesn't count)

To my fellow attention whore.

For my .02 worth, I NEED to watch other teams in order to enjoy what the 49ers do. I am a football fan whose first allegiance is to the 49ers. But in order to appreciate/critique what I see with the 49ers, I have to watch other teams. It is for that reason that in any Montana versus Brady/Manning thread, I am on Montana's side. I watched the other QBs at the time and Monana was head-and-shoulders better. He is still better than either Brady or Manning because he handled the pressure better and thrived under it. Young was next in line, and I compared him to Aikman and the rest. I am an observer, not a cheerleader. I try to be objective. Others may disagree with my assessment, and that is fine. I'll state my reasons and others can pick them apart. Cool.

So when I say Finley is a more complete player now, I am not just talking out of my backside. I have watched all the other TEs in the league and I place Davis about #5. That is very good, but not the best.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by valrod33:
55 catches for 676 yards and 5 TDS

vs

78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS

I don't REALLY care much either about who ELSE is good around the league, from a 49er perspective. However, the 49er games are not the only NFL games I watch. I enjoy watching other games and appreciating other talented players and good teams. I find it not only enjoyable, but it helps me better appreciate, and critique, the 49ers.

The point about Davis, AT THE TIME THE PRIOR THREAD WAS RUNNING, was that Davis was VERY over-rated on this board, in comparison to other players around the league. He is very good, but is the difference between his blocking ability and Billy Bajema, worth a #6 overall versus a FA? There are 5 or 6 other TEs in the league that are more reliable pass catchers than Davis - numbers not withstanding. Davis was the ONLY target for Hill/Smith most of the year. While that can be a double-edged sword, it also means his numbers were inflated in comparison to others who read defenses better, don't false start and don't drop passes.

As to the numbers, Finley was off to a great start, made some amazing catches, and then was out injured for four games. Davis was healthy the entire season. Also, Finley has to share the ball with three very good wideouts.

Davis IS a better blocker, that is not in question. But in every other category, Finley is better.

For now, I am just going to appreciate Finley and hope Davis has a much better season next fall.


Haha, yes. I just posted this exact same thing in the Wild Cards Games Thread yesterday, and got called an attention whore, laughed at like i was an idiot of Niner Talk, and someone "who will find something to complain about" even if VD almost breask the Td record.


I'm not complaining about Vernon, I love him, and I love that he is on our team. I think he is elite, but I, WOULD RATHER HAVE JermF.

Look when you are a receiver, and ESPECIALLY a tight end, the #1 thing that I look for is hands. And JermF has muchhhhh better hands (well most TE's in the NFL have better hands), and the athleticism to compete with Vernon on an elite level. and he will for many years. Check out both of their second year stats, and vernon played more games.

I would rather take a reliable TE, over an unreliable really fast TE. If by mid season, i don't cringe when the ball is going Vernon's way on third and 5, I'll take back my statement (that pretty much depends on whether or not vernon is still jumping three feet in the air just to catch a simple in-route, which probably wont change).



Dj, to maybe being the only two to who think like this (krizay doesn't count)

To my fellow attention whore.

For my .02 worth, I NEED to watch other teams in order to enjoy what the 49ers do. I am a football fan whose first allegiance is to the 49ers. But in order to appreciate/critique what I see with the 49ers, I have to watch other teams. It is for that reason that in any Montana versus Brady/Manning thread, I am on Montana's side. I watched the other QBs at the time and Monana was head-and-shoulders better. He is still better than either Brady or Manning because he handled the pressure better and thrived under it. Young was next in line, and I compared him to Aikman and the rest. I am an observer, not a cheerleader. I try to be objective. Others may disagree with my assessment, and that is fine. I'll state my reasons and others can pick them apart. Cool.

So when I say Finley is a more complete player now, I am not just talking out of my backside. I have watched all the other TEs in the league and I place Davis about #5. That is very good, but not the best.

I dont know how some people don't see this..and i feel like as avid Niner fans, they should know better, because they dont just look at the great stats he put up this year, and focuses more on his on the field play. I cant think of a more unnatural pass catching top 10 Te right now. He is easily top 5, but thats because of his athleticism ALONE.
  • krizay
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Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by valrod33:
55 catches for 676 yards and 5 TDS

vs

78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS

I don't REALLY care much either about who ELSE is good around the league, from a 49er perspective. However, the 49er games are not the only NFL games I watch. I enjoy watching other games and appreciating other talented players and good teams. I find it not only enjoyable, but it helps me better appreciate, and critique, the 49ers.

The point about Davis, AT THE TIME THE PRIOR THREAD WAS RUNNING, was that Davis was VERY over-rated on this board, in comparison to other players around the league. He is very good, but is the difference between his blocking ability and Billy Bajema, worth a #6 overall versus a FA? There are 5 or 6 other TEs in the league that are more reliable pass catchers than Davis - numbers not withstanding. Davis was the ONLY target for Hill/Smith most of the year. While that can be a double-edged sword, it also means his numbers were inflated in comparison to others who read defenses better, don't false start and don't drop passes.

As to the numbers, Finley was off to a great start, made some amazing catches, and then was out injured for four games. Davis was healthy the entire season. Also, Finley has to share the ball with three very good wideouts.

Davis IS a better blocker, that is not in question. But in every other category, Finley is better.

For now, I am just going to appreciate Finley and hope Davis has a much better season next fall.

I would argue more than 5 or 6. Other than that...... As you were


Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by luv49rs:
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by valrod33:
55 catches for 676 yards and 5 TDS

vs

78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS

I don't REALLY care much either about who ELSE is good around the league, from a 49er perspective. However, the 49er games are not the only NFL games I watch. I enjoy watching other games and appreciating other talented players and good teams. I find it not only enjoyable, but it helps me better appreciate, and critique, the 49ers.

The point about Davis, AT THE TIME THE PRIOR THREAD WAS RUNNING, was that Davis was VERY over-rated on this board, in comparison to other players around the league. He is very good, but is the difference between his blocking ability and Billy Bajema, worth a #6 overall versus a FA? There are 5 or 6 other TEs in the league that are more reliable pass catchers than Davis - numbers not withstanding. Davis was the ONLY target for Hill/Smith most of the year. While that can be a double-edged sword, it also means his numbers were inflated in comparison to others who read defenses better, don't false start and don't drop passes.

As to the numbers, Finley was off to a great start, made some amazing catches, and then was out injured for four games. Davis was healthy the entire season. Also, Finley has to share the ball with three very good wideouts.

Davis IS a better blocker, that is not in question. But in every other category, Finley is better.

For now, I am just going to appreciate Finley and hope Davis has a much better season next fall.


Haha, yes. I just posted this exact same thing in the Wild Cards Games Thread yesterday, and got called an attention whore, laughed at like i was an idiot of Niner Talk, and someone "who will find something to complain about" even if VD almost breask the Td record.


I'm not complaining about Vernon, I love him, and I love that he is on our team. I think he is elite, but I, WOULD RATHER HAVE JermF.

Look when you are a receiver, and ESPECIALLY a tight end, the #1 thing that I look for is hands. And JermF has muchhhhh better hands (well most TE's in the NFL have better hands), and the athleticism to compete with Vernon on an elite level. and he will for many years. Check out both of their second year stats, and vernon played more games.

I would rather take a reliable TE, over an unreliable really fast TE. If by mid season, i don't cringe when the ball is going Vernon's way on third and 5, I'll take back my statement (that pretty much depends on whether or not vernon is still jumping three feet in the air just to catch a simple in-route, which probably wont change).



Dj, to maybe being the only two to who think like this (krizay doesn't count)

Why don't I count?


In all honesty its a moot point to me. All TE's are relatively the same in my eyes. Just used differently. If they were all used the same the only differences you may see is hands, blocking and well penalties.

So with that said, you could give me either one or any other TE out of about 15 or so and i''d be happy. Now would I rather have some guys more than others on 3rd and 5? Sure. But it's not like the other guys won't come through more often than not. Just don't give me any of those players with the #6 pick.
  • crzy
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by valrod33:
78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS



And that's not enough for Vernon Davis critics. Unf**kingbelievable.

There are 40 things wrong with this team and they decide to single out the best player on our offense this past season.

Drops happen. Get over it. If Alex threw the ball more accurately, fewer drops would happen.

[ Edited by crzy on Jan 11, 2010 at 12:43:22 ]
Can Finley block ? Davis is the a top flight blocking TE in the league Craig ! in the league !
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by valrod33:
78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS



And that's not enough for Vernon Davis critics. Unf**kingbelievable.

There are 40 things wrong with this team and they decide to single out the best player on our offense this past season.

Drops happen. Get over it. If Alex threw the ball more accurately, fewer drops would happen.

and that includes his drops and offsides penalties. he contributed a ton, but you have to point out his shortcomings too.

crzy, he is a great TE, his production was awesome, i couldnt ask for much more...but he could have much better numbers if he learned to catch the ball without jumping in the air like an idiot? is that really that a ridiculous thing to ask for as a fan? for a player to get better at something like catching if you are a TIGHT END?
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
Originally posted by YuNGaCE:
Can Finley block ? Davis is the a top flight blocking TE in the league Craig ! in the league !

People keep saying this. But the numbers from the people who claim they review all players and plays say other wise.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1
Originally posted by DynastyChile:
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by valrod33:
78 catches 965 yards and 13 TDS



And that's not enough for Vernon Davis critics. Unf**kingbelievable.

There are 40 things wrong with this team and they decide to single out the best player on our offense this past season.

Drops happen. Get over it. If Alex threw the ball more accurately, fewer drops would happen.

and that includes his drops and offsides penalties. he contributed a ton, but you have to point out his shortcomings too.

crzy, he is a great TE, his production was awesome, i couldnt ask for much more...but he could have much better numbers if he learned to catch the ball without jumping in the air like an idiot? is that really that a ridiculous thing to ask for as a fan? for a player to get better at something like catching if you are a TIGHT END?

He has gotten better, if he was as horrible at catching as most people make him out to be, why would any OC with any football knowledge base a whole passing game around him? Dude has insane talent, some drops were his fault, some weren't. He will continue to get better.