Vernon Davis

I can see the same problem that VD has with what Rice went through at the height of his game. Team will try their best to take him away. It's up to VD to be patient, which he has been. The Niners coaches need to find a way to get him the ball. Wether move him around or get other guys on offense to step up and take the pressure or attention off of VD. And for Smith to make an effort to look for him often for that chance of a connection. It's actually a good problem to have. At least we know we have offensive weapons that defense would worry about going into each game.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I can see the same problem that VD has with what Rice went through at the height of his game. Team will try their best to take him away. It's up to VD to be patient, which he has been. The Niners coaches need to find a way to get him the ball. Wether move him around or get other guys on offense to step up and take the pressure or attention off of VD. And for Smith to make an effort to look for him often for that chance of a connection. It's actually a good problem to have. At least we know we have offensive weapons that defense would worry about going into each game.

I wanna see VD run the "Fly Sweep" .. , and with Miller out front blocking, and a pulling Iupati, VD could get some big yards ...just my 2 cents

using him as a receiver out of the backfield would be sweet too ...I know the coaching staff doesnt want to force the ball to him , but if he is put in situations where he can make plays , then do it ...he has been a loyal soldier and doing what is asked of him, blocking has been his main contribution , but we didnt draft him to be a blocking TE ...and I totally agree with "jreff22" ....VD will benefit from the extra attention paid to Crabs and Moss

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I can see the same problem that VD has with what Rice went through at the height of his game. Team will try their best to take him away. It's up to VD to be patient, which he has been. The Niners coaches need to find a way to get him the ball. Wether move him around or get other guys on offense to step up and take the pressure or attention off of VD. And for Smith to make an effort to look for him often for that chance of a connection. It's actually a good problem to have. At least we know we have offensive weapons that defense would worry about going into each game.

The only problem is that VD is not a player who is great at the shorter routes like Rice was. It was easy to get Rice started with a quick slant or a quick hitch AND depend on him making solid plays out of those routes. VD isn't all that great at doing something with those shorter routes or great at running them at all for us to force them in just to get him touches to get into the game.

Originally posted by mustangmele:

Originally posted by sfout:
I saw that too! Kinda pissed me off but no harm no foul in the end, its funny as hell because VD was running up the seam/across the middle - which is exactly one issue that I believe it was Eric Branch pointed out is one of Alex's remaining flaws.

NOT SEEING RECEIVERS

Smith had trouble getting the ball to his wide receivers and he also struggled seeing receivers over the middle.For example, Smith had receivers open 12 or more yards down the middle of the field and failed to spot them, including two receivers who were in the end zone. Here they are:1). Second drive of the game. On first down, Smith rolled out and failed to see tight end Vernon Davis 12 yards down the field. Smith eventually threw the ball away.2). Same drive, on third-and-9 from the Seattle 18, Smith had Michael Crabtree open in the end zone and never saw him. He was eventually sacked for a 2-yard loss and David Akers kicked a 38-yard field goal on fourth down.3) On the 49ers first drive of the fourth quarter, Smith faced a third down from the Seattle 7. He had Randy Moss open in the end zone but never saw him as he rolled to his left. When running back Frank Gore, who was covered in the flat, pointed to Moss, Smith threw the ball too late and too short and cornerback Brandon Browner intercepted it easily.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/10/28/is-there-something-wrong-with-alex-smith-a-one-game-analysis/

If only Alex would improve in this aspect! Sometimes he throws WRs open, other times he is completely blind to their routes and were he could throw it for them.

That's every QB in the NFL. It's like Steve Young said a long time ago, it only get's noticed more with Alex Smith because he's only given so many opportunities to throw. Look how much lower is Attempts are compared to Rogers, Manning, Brady or Brees. If the guy throw 15 more passes a game it wouldn't stand out as much. In fact, look at his yards per attempt and completion percentage. It's top notch.

I agree with this and I'm seriously starting to believe, Alex is coached NOT to throw the riskier deeper balls. HaRoman are high on percentage throws and TO's and ultra conservative. Given that you RARELY, if ever, see him throw deep unless it's the #1 option and he's open (very rare to be called and executed). As he goes through progressions (rare too), if that #1 is covered, he's not even LOOKING deep. I think the deeper routes are all designed to open up the short to intermediate plays. If the #1 isn't open, hit the other shorter #2, safer option and keep the clock and chains moving. I'm sure every QB misses guys wide open (Moss in the endzone) but the way Alex is coached, it seems like its more of a matter of not even looking (coaching) rather than seeing...he's looking for #1 or #2 and while #3 & #4 are decoys for #1 & #2.

Vernon's limitations have been decreasing over the years and he can do so many things well that I consider him the best TE in the game. But he still does not have that instinct to read the D and bail out the QB during blitzes. Fortunately, Smith does really well on blitz downs so it's not a huge issue...would still like to have a 2nd TE who can fill that bill.

Originally posted by NeeJ49er:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I can see the same problem that VD has with what Rice went through at the height of his game. Team will try their best to take him away. It's up to VD to be patient, which he has been. The Niners coaches need to find a way to get him the ball. Wether move him around or get other guys on offense to step up and take the pressure or attention off of VD. And for Smith to make an effort to look for him often for that chance of a connection. It's actually a good problem to have. At least we know we have offensive weapons that defense would worry about going into each game.

I wanna see VD run the "Fly Sweep" .. , and with Miller out front blocking, and a pulling Iupati, VD could get some big yards ...just my 2 cents

using him as a receiver out of the backfield would be sweet too ...I know the coaching staff doesnt want to force the ball to him , but if he is put in situations where he can make plays , then do it ...he has been a loyal soldier and doing what is asked of him, blocking has been his main contribution , but we didnt draft him to be a blocking TE ...and I totally agree with "jreff22" ....VD will benefit from the extra attention paid to Crabs and Moss

I had thought about this too just a few days ago before the Cards game It would be a good try. There's one thing that I think this play may not be as good as it can be... VD is not a make a move and make a guy miss type of runner. To me he's more like the get by, get past, run him over type of runner. And sometimes during those type of running play there will be one defender getting past the blocking and gets to the runner (VD) and usually it's the job of the runner to make that defender miss. Not sure that VD is that. But I like to see the play with VD just the same.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by NeeJ49er:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I can see the same problem that VD has with what Rice went through at the height of his game. Team will try their best to take him away. It's up to VD to be patient, which he has been. The Niners coaches need to find a way to get him the ball. Wether move him around or get other guys on offense to step up and take the pressure or attention off of VD. And for Smith to make an effort to look for him often for that chance of a connection. It's actually a good problem to have. At least we know we have offensive weapons that defense would worry about going into each game.

I wanna see VD run the "Fly Sweep" .. , and with Miller out front blocking, and a pulling Iupati, VD could get some big yards ...just my 2 cents

using him as a receiver out of the backfield would be sweet too ...I know the coaching staff doesnt want to force the ball to him , but if he is put in situations where he can make plays , then do it ...he has been a loyal soldier and doing what is asked of him, blocking has been his main contribution , but we didnt draft him to be a blocking TE ...and I totally agree with "jreff22" ....VD will benefit from the extra attention paid to Crabs and Moss

I had thought about this too just a few days ago before the Cards game It would be a good try. There's one thing that I think this play may not be as good as it can be... VD is not a make a move and make a guy miss type of runner. To me he's more like the get by, get past, run him over type of runner. And sometimes during those type of running play there will be one defender getting past the blocking and gets to the runner (VD) and usually it's the job of the runner to make that defender miss. Not sure that VD is that. But I like to see the play with VD just the same.

VD needs to be reminded of this........ trying to juke DB's 70 lbs lighter than him.......

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Vernon's limitations have been decreasing over the years and he can do so many things well that I consider him the best TE in the game. But he still does not have that instinct to read the D and bail out the QB during blitzes. Fortunately, Smith does really well on blitz downs so it's not a huge issue...would still like to have a 2nd TE who can fill that bill.

VD is a different type of TE. He is something of an enigma. He has WR speed but his body type does not allow him the agility to make those twisting, leaping catches that the good WRs make. As we all know, he is at his best when he is isolated on a LB or slower safety. As you noted, he is NOT good at making quick adjustments on short routes. If he were better on those he would see more of the ball. That would also set him up to come off a short route and go deep.

I would be fine with Davis if the 49ers did have another TE that could run those short pressure routes. Walker is not good at those either. My magic wand solution would be a Jason Witten-type to work the opposite side from Davis in 12 personnel situations. (For my money, the best typical TE is Witten - a sure 1st ballot HOF)

DJ43, your Alex excuse-making knows no bounds. First of all, who is "Jason Whitten?" I'm not familiar with him. You see, if you'd ever actually watched Jason _WITTEN_ play, you would know that he never makes "twisting, leaping" catches, whatever the heck you even mean by that. Romo generally hits him on the numbers. He did make a great one-handed grab, but it wasn't a "twisting, leaping" catch. It never is. If the ball is thrown behind you and you have to leap for it, it's a TERRIBLE THROW, you nincompoop. That's the very definition of a bad throw. A throw that is high and behind a receiver. You don't expect receivers to catch those. Especially going over the frickin middle, where the high throw is the one thing a QB is supposed to avoid if at all possible. Jason WHITTEN...hahahahaha. Priceless. You really are a parody of yourself. Oh, and VD had a 40-inch vertical, so I'm pretty sure he could make a leaping catch.

if so i was thinking about a play that might work its a shotgun singal back set 4 wide davis in slot right or left next to moss crabs other slot next to manningham. i was thinking send davis on a post route crabs on a 10-15 out moss on an option route(fly,deep cross or come back) manningham on straight up fly route and gore/hunter on swing route(kinda wanna see hunter 1on 1 with open space.

my thinking is pick your poison either double moss deep or davis on post somebodys 1 on 1 the other clearing 1 safety the other side the other safety has to either help double moss davis side or go over top of manningham im confident manningham can win a 1 on 1if left alone and crabs wins the out and its likely davis is covered by lb which means safety help. if they come with a blitze davis and crabs adjust go quick slant thats why i asked if he can beat press coverage

its a case who do i cover

please be objective and actually picture play

Originally posted by dj43:
VD is a different type of TE. He is something of an enigma. He has WR speed but his body type does not allow him the agility to make those twisting, leaping catches that the good WRs make. As we all know, he is at his best when he is isolated on a LB or slower safety. As you noted, he is NOT good at making quick adjustments on short routes. If he were better on those he would see more of the ball. That would also set him up to come off a short route and go deep.

I would be fine with Davis if the 49ers did have another TE that could run those short pressure routes. Walker is not good at those either. My magic wand solution would be a Jason Witten-type to work the opposite side from Davis in 12 personnel situations. (For my money, the best typical TE is Witten - a sure 1st ballot HOF)

Agree DJ! As much as I think VD is a huge, unique weapon, he is not a traditional WCO TE. I wanted the 9ers to draft Fleener but he isn't exactly a typical WCO TE either. What has surprised me is that VD has learned to catch the ball in ways he couldn't when he first came in, so perhaps he can improve on D reading. I would have him watch film with Brent and other past greats to see if they can help him...he is a learner.

As far as being fine with VD? I am now because he represents the most potent weapon Smith has in his arsenal. I just want them to find a more WCO oriented TE who can be a safety valve. Gore has really improved in this area so maybe he will show VD the way.

Yes.

yeah it's called four verticals

Looks pretty good to me. I do hope we have a reasonable amount of plays designed in the playbook that focus on opening up the pass game for when we need it. I see no good reason for this play not to be feasible... though I'd probably lock Moss into that deep drag route. That way, Alex can read from left to right on his progressions...