There are 216 users in the forums
Vernon Davis
Jun 23, 2014 at 1:13 PM
- Pillbusta
- Veteran
- Posts: 23,847
VD has no leverage. He will play for us for the next 2 to 3 seasons. If not he loses A LOT of money. There is no doubt in my mind he reports sooner than later. His best bet at getting a new deal from us will be next summer. Right now we have other priorities so VD has to either wait his turn or sit out and lose out on a lot of dough that we can roll over into next season to extend other players to lucrative extensions. He would then still be obligated to us for the duration of his signed contract. He has no good play here other than to report and play for us. It will happen!
Jun 23, 2014 at 2:12 PM
- buck
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:Originally posted by Chief:Originally posted by cciowa:would you have posted that tidbit had he been at mini camp last week?Originally posted by Chief:Originally posted by cciowa:Originally posted by Chief:He posted pics of him and Jimmy Graham on Facebook.
holy s**t,, another reason to cut him, i can add that to my list. people are really getting carried away here in throwing s**t at the wall and hoping it sticks to vernon. he posted some pics on facebook with him and another tight end,, yes , lets just take vernon outside and beat the s**t out of him for that. holy cow
Just posting the truth dude, chill out.
Most likely no, but the fact the picture is from several months ago, both tightends are holding out and Vernon is posting it this morning is very relative. He is making a statement and you can take it however you like.
CC, you got to give VD more credit then that..there are reasons in his head to post the two holdouts TE
Jimmy Graham is not holding out. He is not signed.
He will not sign until after there is a decision on whether he will be paid as a wide receiver or a tight end.
I do not know, and do not care, if Graham is right or wrong, but he is not a holdout.
An unsigned player, a player with no contract, cannot be a holdout.
But, I am sure that there is something in Vernon's head.
[ Edited by buck on Jun 23, 2014 at 2:14 PM ]
Jun 23, 2014 at 2:15 PM
- 49AllTheTime
- Veteran
- Posts: 66,641
Originally posted by buck:so why is he fighting to be paid to like a WR ?
Jimmy Graham is not holding out. He is not signed.
He will not sign until after there is a decision on whether he will be paid as a wide receiver or a tight end.
I do not know, and do not care, if Graham is right or wrong, but he is not a holdout.
An unsigned player, a player with no contract, cannot be a holdout.
its because he's not going to accept the TE offer
Jun 23, 2014 at 2:25 PM
- buck
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:so why is he fighting to be paid to like a WR ?
its because he's not going to accept the TE offer
He is not a holdout. If he signs as a tight end and does not show up, he will be a holdout.
I do not have all the information about why is fighting to be paid as a wide receiver, but I think he is claiming that he has lined up as a wide receiver more than he has lined up as a tight end.
He claim is basically a claim that he has been working out-of-class and should get the pay of the higher class.
This type of claim, grievance actually, is not uncommon when there is a collective bargaining agreement.
I am sure that Vernon Davis hopes that if Graham wins, it will help him.
I have no idea, and do not care if Graham is right or wrong or if he wins or loses.
But, if you said Graham was a holdout, you were in error. Not a big deal, but facts are facts.
Jun 23, 2014 at 2:47 PM
- crabman82
- Veteran
- Posts: 16,990
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
so why is he fighting to be paid to like a WR ?
its because he's not going to accept the TE offer
He is not a holdout. If he signs as a tight end and does not show up, he will be a holdout.
I do not have all the information about why is fighting to be paid as a wide receiver, but I think he is claiming that he has lined up as a wide receiver more than he has lined up as a tight end.
He claim is basically a claim that he has been working out-of-class and should get the pay of the higher class.
This type of claim, grievance actually, is not uncommon when there is a collective bargaining agreement.
I am sure that Vernon Davis hopes that if Graham wins, it will help him.
I have no idea, and do not care if Graham is right or wrong or if he wins or loses.
But, if you said Graham was a holdout, you were in error. Not a big deal, but facts are facts.
this is it right there. not only did a lot of snaps come flexed out in some sort, he was taken out of the game on a lot of snaps both games they played vs seattle because they wanted to run it more and their other 2 te's are far better blockers than him. vernon is not in that case, most of his snaps came at the traditional te spot.
Jun 23, 2014 at 2:52 PM
- DeUh
- Veteran
- Posts: 4,006
Originally posted by crabman82:
this is it right there. not only did a lot of snaps come flexed out in some sort, he was taken out of the game on a lot of snaps both games they played vs seattle because they wanted to run it more and their other 2 te's are far better blockers than him. vernon is not in that case, most of his snaps came at the traditional te spot.
This. Graham sucks as a TE. He is a mismatch on the field who calls himself a WR and is called a TE by his team.
Totally different scenario with Vernon Davis. VD IS A TE. Doesn´t matter if he likes it or not.
Jun 23, 2014 at 2:57 PM
- buck
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by crabman82:this is it right there. not only did a lot of snaps come flexed out in some sort, he was taken out of the game on a lot of snaps both games they played vs seattle because they wanted to run it more and their other 2 te's are far better blockers than him. vernon is not in that case, most of his snaps came at the traditional te spot.
A lot is not going to be sufficient.
Graham must be able to show that he actually functioned as a wide receiver for a substantial majority of his snaps.
I have no idea if Graham's specific grievance has validity, but a working out-of-class grievances are at least theoretically sound.
I do not know if Vernon Davis is asking to be paid as a wide receiver?
Jun 23, 2014 at 3:00 PM
- crabman82
- Veteran
- Posts: 16,990
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by crabman82:
this is it right there. not only did a lot of snaps come flexed out in some sort, he was taken out of the game on a lot of snaps both games they played vs seattle because they wanted to run it more and their other 2 te's are far better blockers than him. vernon is not in that case, most of his snaps came at the traditional te spot.
A lot is not going to be sufficient.
Graham must be able to show that he actually functioned as a wide receiver for a substantial majority of his snaps.
I have no idea if Graham's specific grievance has validity, but a working out-of-class grievances are at least theoretically sound.
I do not know if Vernon Davis is asking to be paid as a wide receiver?
just looked it up, he was lined in usual wr spots 67% of the time
Jun 23, 2014 at 3:03 PM
- NinerSickness
- Member
- Posts: 8,897
Originally posted by crabman82:just looked it up, he was lined in usual wr spots 67% of the time
Some TEs line up at WR a lot, but almost no WRs line up in TE spots. They should just define a TE by lining up at something like 20% of the snaps at TE to avoid this problem in the future. I don't think any receiver in NFL history has ever lined up at TE spots 20% of the time. That's just a guess though, so I could be wrong.
Jun 23, 2014 at 3:08 PM
- crake49
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,201
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by crake49:
He's great, he's a contributor, he's a key part of the offense and maybe he should be paid like the best TE in the league, but this is all irrelevant and unnecessary.
He's under contract for 2 more seasons. He literally has no options short of retirement and since he's so concerned with his "brand," he's not about to do anything like that. This is just the worst kind of bluff - the kind where you not only have no good cards to play, but the opposition has a strong hand. I don't see the Niners doing anything but insisting that he get his butt into camp and play out his contract.
This bluff, this conflict, is between Davis and the front office.
I see no reason to take sides in this conflict.
Davis is the same player that he was before he started this holdout. His strengths and weaknesses have not changed.
He has been a major contributor to this team. That has not changed. It may change, but as of today, it has not.
His holdout is his. If he suffers for it, he suffers. If he gains by it, he gains.
I really do not care. I think that he will be back next year. Have to see what happens.
I'm just saying he doesn't really have a viable choice. I agree with you. It's his deal. I happen to think it's a ridiculous thing for him to be doing, because what are his options? He either plays for the Niners or he doesn't play. The only thing that would change the situation is if Baalke gets an offer from another team that he simply cannot refuse and I don't see that happening.
Jun 23, 2014 at 3:09 PM
- buck
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by crabman82:Originally posted by buck:Originally posted by crabman82:this is it right there. not only did a lot of snaps come flexed out in some sort, he was taken out of the game on a lot of snaps both games they played vs seattle because they wanted to run it more and their other 2 te's are far better blockers than him. vernon is not in that case, most of his snaps came at the traditional te spot.
A lot is not going to be sufficient.
Graham must be able to show that he actually functioned as a wide receiver for a substantial majority of his snaps.
I have no idea if Graham's specific grievance has validity, but a working out-of-class grievances are at least theoretically sound.
I do not know if Vernon Davis is asking to be paid as a wide receiver?
just looked it up, he was lined in usual wr spots 67% of the time
The he in your post is Graham, right.
If you figures are correct I would say that Graham has a legitimate grievance.
That does not mean he will win, but if the final decision lies with a outside arbitrator, and not the league, he has a chance of winning.
A victory by Graham would not have any direct, automatic impact on Vernon Davis and his desires.
The cases are entirely different.
Jun 23, 2014 at 3:14 PM
- crake49
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,201
Originally posted by buck:
The he in your post is Graham, right.
If you figures are correct I would say that Graham has a legitimate grievance.
That does not mean he will win, but if the final decision lies with a outside arbitrator, and not the league, he has a chance of winning.
A victory by Graham would not have any direct, automatic impact on Vernon Davis and his desires.
The cases are entirely different.
Right. Just in case somebody doesn't get it, Graham is a free agent in 2014 and the Saints are using the franchise tag on him. The franchise number for a tight end is a lot less than it is for a wide receiver; hence, the grievance action. It has nothing to do with Davis because he is under contract for at least two more years. It would only be relevant if the team plans on using the franchise tag on Davis in '16.
Jun 23, 2014 at 3:19 PM
- DeUh
- Veteran
- Posts: 4,006
Originally posted by buck:
A lot is not going to be sufficient.
Graham must be able to show that he actually functioned as a wide receiver for a substantial majority of his snaps.
I have no idea if Graham's specific grievance has validity, but a working out-of-class grievances are at least theoretically sound.
I do not know if Vernon Davis is asking to be paid as a wide receiver?
He is answering those questions the same way he answered questions in regards of his "holdout".
Jun. 4, 2014
Woohoo! That works for me!" Davis told Maggie Gray on SI Now when asked if he wanted to see Graham win his case.Asked, however, if he should be classified as a wide receiver, Davis said, "You know what? I'm a tight end. I'm a tight end. But I must say, if it happens, then I'm sure every tight end's going to try to follow behind Jimmy Garham. But my role is to play the tight end position. I do everything they tell me to do."http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/04/6457993/vernon-davis-closely-watching.html
Davis, 30, hasn't taken part in the 49ers offseason workouts because he wants a new contract. The problem is that the tight end market has been stagnant in recent years and Davis is the third-highest paid player at the position. He's the second-highest paid 49er, and his 2014 salary is more than wide receivers Michael Crabtree's and Anquan Boldin's combined salaries.
According to Pro Football Focus, Davis lined up as a traditional tight end 64.5 percent of the time in 2013. He led the team that season in touchdown catches and yards per reception. Davis told The Bee last week he wasn't sure whether he would miss this month's mandatory minicamp. All of the workouts thus far have been voluntary, though Davis did forfeit a $200,000 workout bonus by skipping them.
Two days later however his answer isn´t that specific anymore.
June 6, 2014
So Davis surely believes he should be paid the same way, given that he previously told NBCSN's Pro Football Talk that Davis sees himself as a receiver?http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/06/vernon-davis-lobbies-for-jimmy-graham-to-get-paid/
"I can't speak for myself," Davis said. "I'll let everybody else do that."
By everybody else, Davis possibly means his shareholders.
"He believes that he deserves more, and I believe that he deserves more," Davis told ESPN regarding Graham, who's caught in a franchise-tag fight with the Saints. "He's just a wonderful presence. He's a great player. He has a lot of potential to go above and beyond and just go further. He is one of those guys that is a part of that TE position that are changing the game — Antonio Gates, Jimmy Graham, [Rob] Gronkowski.
"Those guys are some fantastic players. If it was me, if I was the owner of the team, I would give the kid everything he wants because he's that."
More specifically, Davis believes Graham should be paid like a receiver, which is the gist of his pending grievance.
"If you're a guy who's catching a lot of passes and you possess some of the traits that wide receivers have, then yes, I agree," Davis said. "I think that he should get paid like a wide receiver."
[ Edited by DeUh on Jun 23, 2014 at 3:24 PM ]
Jun 23, 2014 at 3:28 PM
- buck
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,137
Originally posted by crake49:Right. Just in case somebody doesn't get it, Graham is a free agent in 2014 and the Saints are using the franchise tag on him. The franchise number for a tight end is a lot less than it is for a wide receiver; hence, the grievance action. It has nothing to do with Davis because he is under contract for at least two more years. It would only be relevant if the team plans on using the franchise tag on Davis in '16.
As a franchise player, Graham would receive pay based upon a pay scale based upon on position played or class.
If Graham can show that he is fact works or functions as a wide receiver and not as a tight end, there is a clear cut pay to determine what he salary should be.
Vernon Davis has not been designated a franchise player. He pay is not determined by his a fixed pay scale based on position played.
Even if Davis could show that he has been working as wide receiver, there is no fixed pay scale that could be used to determine his salary as a wide receiver.
Jun 23, 2014 at 3:38 PM
- teylo31
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,053
Didnt the saints place the franchise tag on graham. Doesnt that technically means he is holding out