Vernon Davis

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by cciowa:
oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

I think his catches can be replaced by a healthy Crabtree Stevie Lloyd some mix of QP and Ellington. I also think that we won't target Bruce Miller as much either. Why? Because we have plenty of capable 1000 yard WRs this season to do that. We will miss VD freakish athletic talent but we can replace his receiving production this season. We can still find ways to get good blocking too. We have the leverage and VD will report and collect his money

i must be in a disagreement mode today,,, i actually hope we can target miller a bit this year,, i know everyone is drooling at these wide outs we have but miller was pretty valuable and a nice target out of the backfield when ck got in trouble and did not have vernon or boldin open. the blocking thing, no special teams ability and his age is the reason why i do not think lloyd will stay but i will say, if boldin keeps "competing" the way he has so far,, the hell with his size, youth and blocking and welcome to the roster miss lloyd

Originally posted by NinerGM:
cciowa

Good points, but this passing offense pretty much based on decoy, drawing defenders away from the middle of the field and trying to get match-ups with other players. In essence the opposing defense has to believe the new threat (let's just say for hypotheticals VD holds out for 3 games) has to believe the replacement or the new formation (player) is a viable threat against 1-1 coverage. VD regularly beats LB so teams are forced to use a safety which lessens their effectiveness in covering out WRs. He may only have 3.5 catches a game, but the way this offense is designed - it regularly depends on him drawing away defenders from others. Ultimately I don't think an improved offense is dependent on Davis. If we're really talking about more 3-wide sets and options being used in the passing game, that's a Kapernick question; can he run a true spread offense and really make the next quantum leap in reading defenses and anticipating his targets/vision? That lessens the loss of a Davis and allows this team to truly transform the offense.

i think a loss of vernon would set the offense back however i do not think that will happen because i think it will turn out just like jerry rice when he held out. the niners may do something to throw vernon a bone while making it look like they are not caving into him. vernon will be back for at least the next two years. i know some already have him off the team and are already building schemes like he will never play another down for us and that is just sad, that is not a reference to you gm. it just seems to be a sad state in some quarters

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.

oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

Lol, wow I thought you might would have something better then that

hey i am just going by your math, if you feel you need to adjust vernons totals, then i will adjust vances totals. what is laughable and untrue are your claims that he is not a difference maker in our offense,, that is grasping in my opinion

If he was, wouldn't he be contributing more then being an excellent blocker. We will adjust according...we have enough weapons to even keep the TE blocking full time if needed.

GM,, i also do not think the question is , can ck run a spread offense with multiple wide outs.. for the sake of not derailing the thread the real question lies in someone else,,, no names mention but his initials are greg roman

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.

oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

Lol, wow I thought you might would have something better then that

hey i am just going by your math, if you feel you need to adjust vernons totals, then i will adjust vances totals. what is laughable and untrue are your claims that he is not a difference maker in our offense,, that is grasping in my opinion

If he was, wouldn't he be contributing more then being an excellent blocker. We will adjust according...we have enough weapons to even keep the TE blocking full time if needed.

the way he draws defenders away from other players are not measured in quik stats you know. i am not sure your boy vance will be able to draw constant double teams thus freeing up other people to make plays but then maybe vance is secretly scaring the hell out of other teams and those teams are so terrified by the mere thought of vance out there on the field,, they would rather have us keep vernon since vernon is not " a difference maker in our offense"

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by Bluesbro:

Originally posted by ads_2006:
Surprised this dude isn't on the chiefs yet

Right? Is he still a Niner? What about "The team, the team, the team"? He signed a big contract, and has played well, but his production is slipping, he is over 30, and the 3rd highest paid tight end in the league, which is more than he deserves. Frankly, he doesn't look as good as he did with D. Walker on the other side of him. Really, he can go now, the team can win without him. Sorry VD, and Boone, but this team is stacked, and you guys are good, but not indispensable.

who fills in for vernon, the all pro who is good for about 10 touchdowns a year? vance? wow he only had the number two spot last year because no one else was any good.. we can not be so arrogant as to think you can get rid of vernon and just plug someone in. we have never had to develop a tight end for years, i have no confidence in erik to do that, nor can we be so arrogant to think ck can just make vance a all pro. now vernon does not look as good as when he had walker? really,,, he had a great year last year and why am i even getting sucked into debating something as nonsensical as that? why is around here when people want certain players gone for whatever reason, gore and now vernon, they start blathering about how they are slipping. there is zero evidence to prove vernon is slipping,, even if there were, we go back to who replaces him.

We have a better receiving core now, we have two young backs who are said to be capable pass catchers, and we have big Mac, we can find 3-4 catches a game there. I don't hate Vernon, and I will be pleased if he returns and plays out his deal, but if he turns into a couple of decent draft picks, well that would be fine too. In the end, this team is stacked, the coaches are sharp, and we will aways be fine with "the next man up".

I just know that we better not pay VD a penny more this season. He has to come and play or just sit on his bum and let us roll over his dough into next year's payroll. Naw, I think that he will just come to training camp and play out the upcoming season and come to the table the summer of 2015. It just make no sense to pay VD more than the number 3 TE in the league this year when his production is not there right now. He has been paid very handsomely from the moment we drafted him up until now. He has been very blessed in his career and he has been paid like a HOF TE his entire career though his induction into the HOF is truly up for grabs at this point in his career. There are other players that probably should be paid more and are grossly underpaid and VD is not one of them

What is vern asking for? Does anybody know?

It might be in our interest to renegotiate a longer term deal with vern that lowers his immediate cap. Could that be compatible with what he is asking for?

Originally posted by cciowa:
i must be in a disagreement mode today,,, i actually hope we can target miller a bit this year,, i know everyone is drooling at these wide outs we have but miller was pretty valuable and a nice target out of the backfield when ck got in trouble and did not have vernon or boldin open. the blocking thing, no special teams ability and his age is the reason why i do not think lloyd will stay but i will say, if boldin keeps "competing" the way he has so far,, the hell with his size, youth and blocking and welcome to the roster miss lloyd

f**k,, meant to say jon baldwin,,49erallthe time has got me shook up today

Originally posted by cciowa:

f**k,, meant to say jon baldwin,,49erallthe time has got me shook up today

Baldwin? That dude ain't gonna be on the team.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
What is vern asking for? Does anybody know?

It might be in our interest to renegotiate a longer term deal with vern that lowers his immediate cap. Could that be compatible with what he is asking for?

is it possible to find a solution here long term, that will benefit both parties while not making it look like either one caved in? i support vernon 1000 per cent here,,,,, if his holdout goes deep into pre season or threatens the regular season, then i will be of a different mindset

Originally posted by SportsFan:

Originally posted by cciowa:
f**k,, meant to say jon baldwin,,49erallthe time has got me shook up today

Baldwin? That dude ain't gonna be on the team.

you are probably right,,,, i have been rooting for him because i wanted something out of the jenkins deal to make us look good,, plus i like his size, blocking ability and youth over lloyd... despite what some people think, i am reasonable,,, miss lloyd kicked his ass in camp and if he can not beat out a 33 year old who has been out of the nfl for a year, he deserves to be among the first cuts of the year.. of course some people think we can turn him into a tight end and replace vernon that way but thats a whole other story for a different therapy session for myself

Originally posted by cciowa:
you are probably right,,,, i have been rooting for him because i wanted something out of the jenkins deal to make us look good,, plus i like his size, blocking ability and youth over lloyd... despite what some people think, i am reasonable,,, miss lloyd kicked his ass in camp and if he can not beat out a 33 year old who has been out of the nfl for a year, he deserves to be among the first cuts of the year.. of course some people think we can turn him into a tight end and replace vernon that way but thats a whole other story for a different therapy session for myself

Baldwin was hurt in camp, so I wouldn't say that Lloyd "kicked his ass".

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by SportsFan:

Originally posted by cciowa:

f**k,, meant to say jon baldwin,,49erallthe time has got me shook up today

Baldwin? That dude ain't gonna be on the team.

you are probably right,,,, i have been rooting for him because i wanted something out of the jenkins deal to make us look good,, plus i like his size, blocking ability and youth over lloyd... despite what some people think, i am reasonable,,, miss lloyd kicked his ass in camp and if he can not beat out a 33 year old who has been out of the nfl for a year, he deserves to be among the first cuts of the year.. of course some people think we can turn him into a tight end and replace vernon that way but thats a whole other story for a different therapy session for myself

CC, you get to involved and attached to these players..and how can you say Lloyd beat out Baldwin when these camps don't mean anything?

And with the VD thing ..no one wants him gone..unless he gets even more stupid by holding out a little longer but that's another story. Some of us see this team as a great system right now.

You see it as the end of the world without VD, I think we survive even if the TE production goes down

Originally posted by NinerGM:
cciowa

Good points, but this passing offense pretty much based on decoy, drawing defenders away from the middle of the field and trying to get match-ups with other players. In essence the opposing defense has to believe the new threat (let's just say for hypotheticals VD holds out for 3 games) has to believe the replacement or the new formation (player) is a viable threat against 1-1 coverage. VD regularly beats LB so teams are forced to use a safety which lessens their effectiveness in covering out WRs. He may only have 3.5 catches a game, but the way this offense is designed - it regularly depends on him drawing away defenders from others. Ultimately I don't think an improved offense is dependent on Davis. If we're really talking about more 3-wide sets and options being used in the passing game, that's a Kapernick question; can he run a true spread offense and really make the next quantum leap in reading defenses and anticipating his targets/vision? That lessens the loss of a Davis and allows this team to truly transform the offense.

Great post. From my perspective, I just see it difficult for us to switch our identity on offense even with our bolstered WR core. I still think that we're going to be a running team first.