Vernon Davis

Originally posted by Giedi:

Actually I think Vance needs it more. Colin was fine hitting VD in his first start as an NFL quarterback in the Chicago bear game. Not disagreeing with you, but between the two I think Vance needs more reps with Colin than VD does. It would be nice if both were there to get reps, but this is the next best thing.

Of course Vance does, but right after that Chicago game VD went on low streak and blamed it on chemistry

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1451527-vernon-davis-three-ways-he-can-improve-his-chemistry-with-colin-kaepernick

Even if you do a search ...for VD and chemistry ...it's VD trying to develop chemistry with whoever is at QB. If VD worked on his route running and made it easier for the qb..then without a doubt he would be the best TE today

Dear Vernon Davis,

You don't deserve to be paid like a top WR because you are a TE. You are already the Top 3 highest paid TE in the world.


Deal with it...

Originally posted by Eli_23:

Dear Vernon Davis,

You don't deserve to be paid like a top WR because you are a TE. You are already the Top 3 highest paid TE in the world.


Deal with it...

If he expects to be paid like a top WR then I expect CK to stare him down on third downs and the red zone as opposed to Crab and Q. His can you justify being paid more than those guys when it was Boldin and not yourself that was voted team MVP. VD has to get better than Crab and Boldin before he seeks top WR pay. At least Jimmy Graham is the top target on his team. And Crabtree coming back from a fully torn Achilles should not have to tell VD to turn up in the NFCCG after a big hit either. It should be the other way around. VD is paid handsomely. He was paid upfront in a BIG way and he still has two years remaining! It is time for him to report by camp put up a great year then come to the table looking for a fat extension

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Of course Vance does, but right after that Chicago game VD went on low streak and blamed it on chemistry

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1451527-vernon-davis-three-ways-he-can-improve-his-chemistry-with-colin-kaepernick

Even if you do a search ...for VD and chemistry ...it's VD trying to develop chemistry with whoever is at QB. If VD worked on his route running and made it easier for the qb..then without a doubt he would be the best TE today

Chemistry is more important for receivers than Blockers, and VD is half blocking on most plays because we are a run first team. If he was on the green bay offense where they emphasize the TE as WR, I'd agree more with you. I just don't see it as a really big problem with chemistry between VD and Colin the way the other folks do.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by cciowa:
who fills in for vernon, the all pro who is good for about 10 touchdowns a year? vance? wow he only had the number two spot last year because no one else was any good.. we can not be so arrogant as to think you can get rid of vernon and just plug someone in. we have never had to develop a tight end for years, i have no confidence in erik to do that, nor can we be so arrogant to think ck can just make vance a all pro. now vernon does not look as good as when he had walker? really,,, he had a great year last year and why am i even getting sucked into debating something as nonsensical as that? why is around here when people want certain players gone for whatever reason, gore and now vernon, they start blathering about how they are slipping. there is zero evidence to prove vernon is slipping,, even if there were, we go back to who replaces him.

Why is that your only comeback ...there are 29 other teams that can play with out an elite TE..including the 2013 SB champs

we have seen how important vernon is to the offense and we have seen what he has done to the rest of the nfl when we play them. you are willing to get rid of that weapon and go with some guy who was barely a number two?who gives a s**t about what all other teams in the nfl does. with our team a big part of our success is a tight end like vernon and i am not willing to give that up unless he creates a real divide in the locker room, or his hold out runs deep into pre season then you probably have to cut bait and hope for the best. it is pure arrogance on a segment of our fan base, in my opinion, that we can just dump a weapon like him and we will not skip a beat. part of me wants to say ignorance but i do not want to make it personal. you can set up at nights worrying about what 29 other nfl teams do, why should we be like 20 other teams, while at the same time, taking a pretty big weapon out of our game. maybe you can tell me why in the last two weeks we are finding out all these things about vernon we never knew before from some fans
1 he is soft
2 he is scared of the other guys we brought in
3 he is scared he will not be targeted as much
4 he is out of shape
5 he is slipping and is not as good as he was
7 he was only good because walker was here(never get over that one)
8 he is a cancer
if he was all these things seems to me we would have heard about them last year during the season,,, or could it just be, some people are inventing and generating holes in his game and his status as a team mate because they have decided they hate vernon and as we have seen so many times on this board,, when people become loyal to their hatred of a player, it prevents them from being objective

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Why is that your only comeback ...there are 29 other teams that can play with out an elite TE..including the 2013 SB champs

Especially with the WRs we have now. VD is a great player but we have ample receiving options now. We have great talent all around the ball on offense: QB WR OL RB. We will still score points

got a hold out on the offense line and the line is still over rated in pass protection
no clue what you got in the run game behind gore and hunter, you got two kids you "hope will come along but they have zero nfl experience
at wide out, crabs is healthy, boldin is a year older, we have seen nothing from stevie due to his hammie who has also had some ball drop issues, you got two kids whose amount of nfl experience can be fit into a thimble.
ck is good but do you want him running around all day long in games to make up for the loss of vernon perhaps putting him at injury risk, you saw he was limited a bit last year when he hurt his foot
yes when you put it that way, by all means, we need to dump one of the few consistent threats we have had on offense over the years

Originally posted by cciowa:

we have seen how important vernon is to the offense and we have seen what he has done to the rest of the nfl when we play them. you are willing to get rid of that weapon and go with some guy who was barely a number two?who gives a s**t about what all other teams in the nfl does. with our team a big part of our success is a tight end like vernon and i am not willing to give that up unless he creates a real divide in the locker room, or his hold out runs deep into pre season then you probably have to cut bait and hope for the best. it is pure arrogance on a segment of our fan base, in my opinion, that we can just dump a weapon like him and we will not skip a beat. part of me wants to say ignorance but i do not want to make it personal. you can set up at nights worrying about what 29 other nfl teams do, why should we be like 20 other teams, while at the same time, taking a pretty big weapon out of our game. maybe you can tell me why in the last two weeks we are finding out all these things about vernon we never knew before from some fans
1 he is soft
2 he is scared of the other guys we brought in
3 he is scared he will not be targeted as much
4 he is out of shape
5 he is slipping and is not as good as he was
7 he was only good because walker was here(never get over that one)
8 he is a cancer
if he was all these things seems to me we would have heard about them last year during the season,,, or could it just be, some people are inventing and generating holes in his game and his status as a team mate because they have decided they hate vernon and as we have seen so many times on this board,, when people become loyal to their hatred of a player, it prevents them from being objective

I think VD has been extremely important to us primarily because we've had one of the NFLs weakest WR lineups. That should change this season and VD is still VD but the talent around him has increased significantly. We now have 4...I repeat 4 WRs that have 1000 seasons under their belts to complement VD. In addition I think we have real RB support for Frank with Hunter Latter and Hyde. VD ain't playing on a team where Boldin is the 1, he is the 2 and Bruce Miller is the 3. We have a really deep WR core this time as well as a great and deep backfield. I am expecting a very good offense with or without VD and it won't be because we sub in Vance for VD either. It will be because of a healthy Crab Stevie and Brandon Lloyd. Not to mention a sophomore QP and the rookie. And VD is coming back as well. Soon. Like by training camp. He ain't missing out on all that dough

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by cciowa:

who fills in for vernon, the all pro who is good for about 10 touchdowns a year? vance? wow he only had the number two spot last year because no one else was any good.. we can not be so arrogant as to think you can get rid of vernon and just plug someone in. we have never had to develop a tight end for years, i have no confidence in erik to do that, nor can we be so arrogant to think ck can just make vance a all pro. now vernon does not look as good as when he had walker? really,,, he had a great year last year and why am i even getting sucked into debating something as nonsensical as that? why is around here when people want certain players gone for whatever reason, gore and now vernon, they start blathering about how they are slipping. there is zero evidence to prove vernon is slipping,, even if there were, we go back to who replaces him.

Why is that your only comeback ...there are 29 other teams that can play with out an elite TE..including the 2013 SB champs

we have seen how important vernon is to the offense and we have seen what he has done to the rest of the nfl when we play them. you are willing to get rid of that weapon and go with some guy who was barely a number two?who gives a s**t about what all other teams in the nfl does. with our team a big part of our success is a tight end like vernon and i am not willing to give that up unless he creates a real divide in the locker room, or his hold out runs deep into pre season then you probably have to cut bait and hope for the best. it is pure arrogance on a segment of our fan base, in my opinion, that we can just dump a weapon like him and we will not skip a beat. part of me wants to say ignorance but i do not want to make it personal. you can set up at nights worrying about what 29 other nfl teams do, why should we be like 20 other teams, while at the same time, taking a pretty big weapon out of our game. maybe you can tell me why in the last two weeks we are finding out all these things about vernon we never knew before from some fans
1 he is soft
2 he is scared of the other guys we brought in
3 he is scared he will not be targeted as much
4 he is out of shape
5 he is slipping and is not as good as he was
7 he was only good because walker was here(never get over that one)
8 he is a cancer
if he was all these things seems to me we would have heard about them last year during the season,,, or could it just be, some people are inventing and generating holes in his game and his status as a team mate because they have decided they hate vernon and as we have seen so many times on this board,, when people become loyal to their hatred of a player, it prevents them from being objective

He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.

without him, we never would have beat the saints in the playoffs, if you did not have him last year while crabs was gone, ck was hurting with one foot we may not have made that incredible run, without him and his presence of mind to drag the foot for a touchdown, we may not have beat the panthers in the players,,, stop acting like this team and offense will not miss vernon big time if we do what you and a few others want to do on your witchhunt, your last statement that he not a difference maker with the double teams he draws, the mismatches he creates, the plays he makes, the blocking he does for our run game, is really illogical , nonsensical and void of proof and reason in my opinion

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.

oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

Originally posted by cciowa:
got a hold out on the offense line and the line is still over rated in pass protection
no clue what you got in the run game behind gore and hunter, you got two kids you "hope will come along but they have zero nfl experience
at wide out, crabs is healthy, boldin is a year older, we have seen nothing from stevie due to his hammie who has also had some ball drop issues, you got two kids whose amount of nfl experience can be fit into a thimble.
ck is good but do you want him running around all day long in games to make up for the loss of vernon perhaps putting him at injury risk, you saw he was limited a bit last year when he hurt his foot
yes when you put it that way, by all means, we need to dump one of the few consistent threats we have had on offense over the years

Where did you get that I said dump VD? Where did you get that? I said that we have much better complements in and around VD and that we will miss him much less now than we did then. Last season all we had for the most part was VD and Boldin. After that we had a ton of unproven players. We needed VD and Boldin like I need Oxygen to survive. This year however we have a plethora of guys that can make plays. We won't keel over and die like we would have last year if VD were to miss games this year. We now have Boldin Crab Stevie and Lloyd as proven 1000 yard guys (something VD hasn't achieved once in his illustrious career). I think we can get Vernons production from that cast of characters. As to our RB depth we were fine with just Gore and Hunter last season and it would be foolish to think that a healthy Lattimore and Hyde can't contribute a lot of positive things to our rushing attack. Doubt Lattimore if you please due to his injury but at least Hyde should be able to give us some production. You know just like I do that Bruce Miller was our number 3 last season...a FB! That can't happen this year and VD will at best be our number 3 this year behind Crab and Boldin. VD is a special talent but we happen to have a lot of talented players catching balls for us this season.

I haven't said to dismiss VD and cut or trade him unless someone wants to give us a 1st round pick. My business mind is much too keen for such talk. I have always maintained that VD will report and he will have a chance to produce to the point at which he can return to the table the summer of 2015 for contract talk extensions. It won't happen now! He has 2 seasons left and we have other priorities right now. VD has to wait his turn and handle this like a pro or just pout and whine like a chump but fact is right now the Niners have all the leverage

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.

oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

Lol, wow I thought you might would have something better then that

Originally posted by cciowa:
oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

I think his catches can be replaced by a healthy Crabtree Stevie Lloyd some mix of QP and Ellington. I also think that we won't target Bruce Miller as much either. Why? Because we have plenty of capable 1000 yard WRs this season to do that. We will miss VD freakish athletic talent but we can replace his receiving production this season. We can still find ways to get good blocking too. We have the leverage and VD will report and collect his money

Originally posted by NinerGM:
But you forget this passing offense pretty much based on decoy, drawing defenders away from the middle of the field and trying to get match-ups with other players. In essence the opposing defense has to believe the new threat (let's just say for hypotheticals VD holds out for 3 games) has to believe the replacement or the new formation (player) is a viable threat against 1-1 coverage. VD regularly beats LB so teams are forced to use a safety which lessens their effectiveness in covering out WRs. He may only have 3.5 catches a game, but the way this offense is designed - it regularly depends on him drawing away defenders from others. Ultimately I don't think an improved offense is dependent on Davis. If we're really talking about more 3-wide sets and options being used in the passing game, that's a Kapernick question; can he run a true spread offense and really make the next quantum leap in reading defenses and anticipating his targets/vision? That lessens the loss of a Davis and allows this team to truly transform the offense.

You said it! 3 WR sets and if I put either Crab, Stevie or Boldin in the slot there will be a mismatch vs a LB. All I know is that there are plenty of NFL offenses that have found ways to run pass and score the ball without a freak like VD at TE. We have 4 1000 yard WRs and a great stable of RBs and I think we should still be able to figure out how to put up points with Kap having his 2nd full offseason grooming at QB as a starter

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
He is important to us, but stop acting this team will play like crap if he didn't play.

He only averages 3.25 catches a game..hardly a difference maker in our offense.

oh and if your theory is true,, we can replace vernons 3.25 catches with vances 0.75 catches a game and we will be ok? well that makes one of you who thinks that

Lol, wow I thought you might would have something better then that

hey i am just going by your math, if you feel you need to adjust vernons totals, then i will adjust vances totals. what is laughable and untrue are your claims that he is not a difference maker in our offense,, that is grasping in my opinion