BREAKING NEWS: Broncos trade Cutler to the Bears

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:
I haven't read the posts on this thread, but upon hearing the news of Cutlers trade, I just wanted to register my disappointment with the Niners FO . . . again!
Of course, I knew that the Niners didn't have the Cajones to pull off something like this, but until the door was slammed shut, there was always hope.
This was a trade the Niners could have made. Is Culter worth it? Absolutely! You just have to register this organizations exercise in futility with their first rounders to realise what a crap shoot drafting is versus the sure thing. Easily worth 2, heck three, first rounders. Even the one first rounder we hit on is not worth a third of what a franchise QB brings to the table. Only homie are blind to this fact.
A franchise QB is the core, the foundation on which to build a consistent winner. The Niners demise began with the team's loss of its franchise QBs and until we have one, we're not going to be consistently back. The teams that are consistently there year after year have this.
There is NOONE on the Niners roster who is a valuable as Cutler. Anybody making an argument to the contrary is not playing with a full deck IMO. There are a LOT of them around.
What a disappointment!! Well . . . back to the salt mines!

3 first rounders? Why do we stop there? Just give them a first round draft pick each year for the next 5 years.

CHAMPIONSHIP

-9fA

You don't get it: I was making a point about value.
You give up the LEAST of what it would take to get him. In this case 2 firsts, a third, and change. And you get your franchise back on track after 10 years in the wilderness. Not a huge price to pay for that now, is it?
5 first rounders when you only need to give up two?! Pfffft . . . done much negotiating? Just asking.

Yes but the Bears are now stuck. They have a ton of holes left to fill and no draft picks... woops. Cutler can't turn s**t in to gold with no help

And that's your opinion.
You realise that they are only ONE draft pick short, don't you?
They gave up a first and swapped a 3rd next year for a fifth this year (a net loss of ONE) for an insurance policy. Namely, to make sure that they did not pick a dud QB in the draft ( the odds were pretty good that they were going to do that on a QB with the 18th pick do-you-think?). So happens that the insurance policy is only on the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM. And it buys them a proven PRO BOWL quarterback, good for at least another 10 years. Maybe more.
Pretty cheap price to pay, it seems to me.
Make sense now?

NinerNZ:
I would have given up a this years first round pick for Cutler. I will give you that. I thought Cutler was worth a first round pick. On top of that, i would only give a very late rounder or one of our QB's (I personally don't believe Alex is broken and Hill is serviceable).

Now as I have mentioned in previous posts, just like a draft pick, Cutler has no guarantees to continue playing at a probowl level. He could:
1. decide to throw another trantrum
2. decide not to sign long term (which is why i don't believe the Bears are set for ten years YET..)
3. get injured

And that is my reasoning as to why you don't trade anything more than 1 high draft pick. If you do, you trade away potentially two probowlers for one. At the least, the draft picks become rotational guys, on average they become solid contributors and at the most, they become franchise faces.

Btw, i'm guessing NZ stands for New Zealand, no?

-9fA

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f98c95


Why in the hell does Cutler say "The running back situation is short here."?


They have a young strong RB... Forte has a ton of talent.

Originally posted by Chief49er:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f98c95


Why in the hell does Cutler say "The running back situation is short here."?


They have a young strong RB... Forte has a ton of talent.

He was money last year for me in FF!

Originally posted by Chief49er:
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f98c95


Why in the hell does Cutler say "The running back situation is short here."?


They have a young strong RB... Forte has a ton of talent.

Maybe he was referring to height?

-9fA

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:
I haven't read the posts on this thread, but upon hearing the news of Cutlers trade, I just wanted to register my disappointment with the Niners FO . . . again!
Of course, I knew that the Niners didn't have the Cajones to pull off something like this, but until the door was slammed shut, there was always hope.
This was a trade the Niners could have made. Is Culter worth it? Absolutely! You just have to register this organizations exercise in futility with their first rounders to realise what a crap shoot drafting is versus the sure thing. Easily worth 2, heck three, first rounders. Even the one first rounder we hit on is not worth a third of what a franchise QB brings to the table. Only homie are blind to this fact.
A franchise QB is the core, the foundation on which to build a consistent winner. The Niners demise began with the team's loss of its franchise QBs and until we have one, we're not going to be consistently back. The teams that are consistently there year after year have this.
There is NOONE on the Niners roster who is a valuable as Cutler. Anybody making an argument to the contrary is not playing with a full deck IMO. There are a LOT of them around.
What a disappointment!! Well . . . back to the salt mines!

3 first rounders? Why do we stop there? Just give them a first round draft pick each year for the next 5 years.

CHAMPIONSHIP

-9fA

You don't get it: I was making a point about value.
You give up the LEAST of what it would take to get him. In this case 2 firsts, a third, and change. And you get your franchise back on track after 10 years in the wilderness. Not a huge price to pay for that now, is it?
5 first rounders when you only need to give up two?! Pfffft . . . done much negotiating? Just asking.

Yes but the Bears are now stuck. They have a ton of holes left to fill and no draft picks... woops. Cutler can't turn s**t in to gold with no help

And that's your opinion.
You realise that they are only ONE draft pick short, don't you?
They gave up a first and swapped a 3rd next year for a fifth this year (a net loss of ONE) for an insurance policy. Namely, to make sure that they did not pick a dud QB in the draft ( the odds were pretty good that they were going to do that on a QB with the 18th pick do-you-think?). So happens that the insurance policy is only on the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM. And it buys them a proven PRO BOWL quarterback, good for at least another 10 years. Maybe more.
Pretty cheap price to pay, it seems to me.
Make sense now?

Where did you read they swapped 3rd round picks? the broncos got the bears 3rd rounder this year also... Recheck your facts. Who gives a s**t about this MOst import position on the team nonsense. It only works when there is a good offense around him and their clearly isn't. Who knows if Forte was a one year wonder?

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:
I haven't read the posts on this thread, but upon hearing the news of Cutlers trade, I just wanted to register my disappointment with the Niners FO . . . again!
Of course, I knew that the Niners didn't have the Cajones to pull off something like this, but until the door was slammed shut, there was always hope.
This was a trade the Niners could have made. Is Culter worth it? Absolutely! You just have to register this organizations exercise in futility with their first rounders to realise what a crap shoot drafting is versus the sure thing. Easily worth 2, heck three, first rounders. Even the one first rounder we hit on is not worth a third of what a franchise QB brings to the table. Only homie are blind to this fact.
A franchise QB is the core, the foundation on which to build a consistent winner. The Niners demise began with the team's loss of its franchise QBs and until we have one, we're not going to be consistently back. The teams that are consistently there year after year have this.
There is NOONE on the Niners roster who is a valuable as Cutler. Anybody making an argument to the contrary is not playing with a full deck IMO. There are a LOT of them around.
What a disappointment!! Well . . . back to the salt mines!

3 first rounders? Why do we stop there? Just give them a first round draft pick each year for the next 5 years.

CHAMPIONSHIP

-9fA

You don't get it: I was making a point about value.
You give up the LEAST of what it would take to get him. In this case 2 firsts, a third, and change. And you get your franchise back on track after 10 years in the wilderness. Not a huge price to pay for that now, is it?
5 first rounders when you only need to give up two?! Pfffft . . . done much negotiating? Just asking.

Yes but the Bears are now stuck. They have a ton of holes left to fill and no draft picks... woops. Cutler can't turn s**t in to gold with no help

This just in. Breaking news...the Bears have NO draft picks....damn they really did screw up. Who has ever drafted a good player outside of the 1st??

Also, more breaking news...apparently, though still 25 years old.....in 2 more seasons when the Bears get to pick in the 1st again...Jay Cutler will automagically be 38 years old.

You heard it hear first, Jay Cutler will NEVER have a WR to throw to because the Bears are stupid heads and got RAPED on this trade.

thank god for the zone

He looks like he just woke up from his month long bender and finally checked the voicemail.

Originally posted by King49er:

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
It would appear initially that Denver raped Chicago in that trade.

Cutler + 5th..

For..

1st, 1st, 3rd, and Kyle Orton.

If Kyle Orton, with no protection and no WR's could do as well as he did.. I'm wondering what'll happen in Denver if he starts with receivers to throw to, and protection, if he gets that.

Unfortunately he wont have an awesome running game and a good defense to bail him out

Why does everyone say the bears D is good....


They ranked 21st in the league last year and are only getting older. Orton, like I had stated before, could have a better year than Cutler. I don't think you realize how bad the bears offense is....

There are NO WR's in Chicago,he's not going to have the luxury of a Brandon Marshall or Eddie Royal with the Bears

Both of those guys developed because of Cutler. I think the Bears WRs will end up working out for him despite not being well known/accomplished so far...

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:
I haven't read the posts on this thread, but upon hearing the news of Cutlers trade, I just wanted to register my disappointment with the Niners FO . . . again!
Of course, I knew that the Niners didn't have the Cajones to pull off something like this, but until the door was slammed shut, there was always hope.
This was a trade the Niners could have made. Is Culter worth it? Absolutely! You just have to register this organizations exercise in futility with their first rounders to realise what a crap shoot drafting is versus the sure thing. Easily worth 2, heck three, first rounders. Even the one first rounder we hit on is not worth a third of what a franchise QB brings to the table. Only homie are blind to this fact.
A franchise QB is the core, the foundation on which to build a consistent winner. The Niners demise began with the team's loss of its franchise QBs and until we have one, we're not going to be consistently back. The teams that are consistently there year after year have this.
There is NOONE on the Niners roster who is a valuable as Cutler. Anybody making an argument to the contrary is not playing with a full deck IMO. There are a LOT of them around.
What a disappointment!! Well . . . back to the salt mines!

3 first rounders? Why do we stop there? Just give them a first round draft pick each year for the next 5 years.

CHAMPIONSHIP

-9fA

You don't get it: I was making a point about value.
You give up the LEAST of what it would take to get him. In this case 2 firsts, a third, and change. And you get your franchise back on track after 10 years in the wilderness. Not a huge price to pay for that now, is it?
5 first rounders when you only need to give up two?! Pfffft . . . done much negotiating? Just asking.

Yes but the Bears are now stuck. They have a ton of holes left to fill and no draft picks... woops. Cutler can't turn s**t in to gold with no help

And that's your opinion.
You realise that they are only ONE draft pick short, don't you?
They gave up a first and swapped a 3rd next year for a fifth this year (a net loss of ONE) for an insurance policy. Namely, to make sure that they did not pick a dud QB in the draft ( the odds were pretty good that they were going to do that on a QB with the 18th pick do-you-think?). So happens that the insurance policy is only on the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM. And it buys them a proven PRO BOWL quarterback, good for at least another 10 years. Maybe more.
Pretty cheap price to pay, it seems to me.
Make sense now?

Where did you read they swapped 3rd round picks? the broncos got the bears 3rd rounder this year also... Recheck your facts. Who gives a s**t about this MOst import position on the team nonsense. It only works when there is a good offense around him and their clearly isn't. Who knows if Forte was a one year wonder?

Its funny how you guarantee Orton not only starting but also having a better season than Cutler. If you look at Orton and his career, he might be the one year wonder bc he had an actual rushing threat with Forte that gave him 8 in the box.

But then you question if Forte is a one year wonder.

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:
I haven't read the posts on this thread, but upon hearing the news of Cutlers trade, I just wanted to register my disappointment with the Niners FO . . . again!
Of course, I knew that the Niners didn't have the Cajones to pull off something like this, but until the door was slammed shut, there was always hope.
This was a trade the Niners could have made. Is Culter worth it? Absolutely! You just have to register this organizations exercise in futility with their first rounders to realise what a crap shoot drafting is versus the sure thing. Easily worth 2, heck three, first rounders. Even the one first rounder we hit on is not worth a third of what a franchise QB brings to the table. Only homie are blind to this fact.
A franchise QB is the core, the foundation on which to build a consistent winner. The Niners demise began with the team's loss of its franchise QBs and until we have one, we're not going to be consistently back. The teams that are consistently there year after year have this.
There is NOONE on the Niners roster who is a valuable as Cutler. Anybody making an argument to the contrary is not playing with a full deck IMO. There are a LOT of them around.
What a disappointment!! Well . . . back to the salt mines!

3 first rounders? Why do we stop there? Just give them a first round draft pick each year for the next 5 years.

CHAMPIONSHIP

-9fA

You don't get it: I was making a point about value.
You give up the LEAST of what it would take to get him. In this case 2 firsts, a third, and change. And you get your franchise back on track after 10 years in the wilderness. Not a huge price to pay for that now, is it?
5 first rounders when you only need to give up two?! Pfffft . . . done much negotiating? Just asking.

Yes but the Bears are now stuck. They have a ton of holes left to fill and no draft picks... woops. Cutler can't turn s**t in to gold with no help

And that's your opinion.
You realise that they are only ONE draft pick short, don't you?
They gave up a first and swapped a 3rd next year for a fifth this year (a net loss of ONE) for an insurance policy. Namely, to make sure that they did not pick a dud QB in the draft ( the odds were pretty good that they were going to do that on a QB with the 18th pick do-you-think?). So happens that the insurance policy is only on the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM. And it buys them a proven PRO BOWL quarterback, good for at least another 10 years. Maybe more.
Pretty cheap price to pay, it seems to me.
Make sense now?

Where did you read they swapped 3rd round picks? the broncos got the bears 3rd rounder this year also... Recheck your facts. Who gives a s**t about this MOst import position on the team nonsense. It only works when there is a good offense around him and their clearly isn't. Who knows if Forte was a one year wonder?

Trouble with comprehension? I said "a 3rd next year for a fifth this year"; in other words a 3rd for a 5th. Not "swapped 3rd round picks" as you state. It happens that the 3rd for 5th swap all happens this year and does not straddle two years as I had first supposed, but the salient point is that it's a 3rd for a 5th. And that in terms of NET draft picks surrendered, the Bears are out ONE draft pick; a first rounder next year. Hopefully that's clear.
Question: Do you rate positions by level of importance or are do they all rank the same? Is it even worth having a discussion with you on this point?
You know . . . never mind.

Originally posted by Hornblower:


He looks like he just woke up from his month long bender and finally checked the voicemail.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:
I haven't read the posts on this thread, but upon hearing the news of Cutlers trade, I just wanted to register my disappointment with the Niners FO . . . again!
Of course, I knew that the Niners didn't have the Cajones to pull off something like this, but until the door was slammed shut, there was always hope.
This was a trade the Niners could have made. Is Culter worth it? Absolutely! You just have to register this organizations exercise in futility with their first rounders to realise what a crap shoot drafting is versus the sure thing. Easily worth 2, heck three, first rounders. Even the one first rounder we hit on is not worth a third of what a franchise QB brings to the table. Only homie are blind to this fact.
A franchise QB is the core, the foundation on which to build a consistent winner. The Niners demise began with the team's loss of its franchise QBs and until we have one, we're not going to be consistently back. The teams that are consistently there year after year have this.
There is NOONE on the Niners roster who is a valuable as Cutler. Anybody making an argument to the contrary is not playing with a full deck IMO. There are a LOT of them around.
What a disappointment!! Well . . . back to the salt mines!

3 first rounders? Why do we stop there? Just give them a first round draft pick each year for the next 5 years.

CHAMPIONSHIP

-9fA

You don't get it: I was making a point about value.
You give up the LEAST of what it would take to get him. In this case 2 firsts, a third, and change. And you get your franchise back on track after 10 years in the wilderness. Not a huge price to pay for that now, is it?
5 first rounders when you only need to give up two?! Pfffft . . . done much negotiating? Just asking.

Yes but the Bears are now stuck. They have a ton of holes left to fill and no draft picks... woops. Cutler can't turn s**t in to gold with no help

And that's your opinion.
You realise that they are only ONE draft pick short, don't you?
They gave up a first and swapped a 3rd next year for a fifth this year (a net loss of ONE) for an insurance policy. Namely, to make sure that they did not pick a dud QB in the draft ( the odds were pretty good that they were going to do that on a QB with the 18th pick do-you-think?). So happens that the insurance policy is only on the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM. And it buys them a proven PRO BOWL quarterback, good for at least another 10 years. Maybe more.
Pretty cheap price to pay, it seems to me.
Make sense now?

Where did you read they swapped 3rd round picks? the broncos got the bears 3rd rounder this year also... Recheck your facts. Who gives a s**t about this MOst import position on the team nonsense. It only works when there is a good offense around him and their clearly isn't. Who knows if Forte was a one year wonder?

Its funny how you guarantee Orton not only starting but also having a better season than Cutler. If you look at Orton and his career, he might be the one year wonder bc he had an actual rushing threat with Forte that gave him 8 in the box.

But then you question if Forte is a one year wonder.

Bro, Orton hasn't played that bad for the s**t he had around him... I question Forte because the NFL is full of one year wonders... I would like to see him produce the same way he did last year.

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by socalfan21:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by NinerNZ:
I haven't read the posts on this thread, but upon hearing the news of Cutlers trade, I just wanted to register my disappointment with the Niners FO . . . again!
Of course, I knew that the Niners didn't have the Cajones to pull off something like this, but until the door was slammed shut, there was always hope.
This was a trade the Niners could have made. Is Culter worth it? Absolutely! You just have to register this organizations exercise in futility with their first rounders to realise what a crap shoot drafting is versus the sure thing. Easily worth 2, heck three, first rounders. Even the one first rounder we hit on is not worth a third of what a franchise QB brings to the table. Only homie are blind to this fact.
A franchise QB is the core, the foundation on which to build a consistent winner. The Niners demise began with the team's loss of its franchise QBs and until we have one, we're not going to be consistently back. The teams that are consistently there year after year have this.
There is NOONE on the Niners roster who is a valuable as Cutler. Anybody making an argument to the contrary is not playing with a full deck IMO. There are a LOT of them around.
What a disappointment!! Well . . . back to the salt mines!

3 first rounders? Why do we stop there? Just give them a first round draft pick each year for the next 5 years.

CHAMPIONSHIP

-9fA

You don't get it: I was making a point about value.
You give up the LEAST of what it would take to get him. In this case 2 firsts, a third, and change. And you get your franchise back on track after 10 years in the wilderness. Not a huge price to pay for that now, is it?
5 first rounders when you only need to give up two?! Pfffft . . . done much negotiating? Just asking.

Yes but the Bears are now stuck. They have a ton of holes left to fill and no draft picks... woops. Cutler can't turn s**t in to gold with no help

And that's your opinion.
You realise that they are only ONE draft pick short, don't you?
They gave up a first and swapped a 3rd next year for a fifth this year (a net loss of ONE) for an insurance policy. Namely, to make sure that they did not pick a dud QB in the draft ( the odds were pretty good that they were going to do that on a QB with the 18th pick do-you-think?). So happens that the insurance policy is only on the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE TEAM. And it buys them a proven PRO BOWL quarterback, good for at least another 10 years. Maybe more.
Pretty cheap price to pay, it seems to me.
Make sense now?

Where did you read they swapped 3rd round picks? the broncos got the bears 3rd rounder this year also... Recheck your facts. Who gives a s**t about this MOst import position on the team nonsense. It only works when there is a good offense around him and their clearly isn't. Who knows if Forte was a one year wonder?

Trouble with comprehension? I said "a 3rd next year for a fifth this year"; in other words a 3rd for a 5th. Not "swapped 3rd round picks" as you state. It happens that the 3rd for 5th swap all happens this year and does not straddle two years as I had first supposed, but the salient point is that it's a 3rd for a 5th. And that in terms of NET draft picks surrendered, the Bears are out ONE draft pick; a first rounder next year. Hopefully that's clear.
Question: Do you rate positions by level of importance or are do they all rank the same? Is it even worth having a discussion with you on this point?
You know . . . never mind.

Yes I rate positions by level of importance... I also rate WRs and O Linemans high or else Cutler will end up like Carson Plamer... you dig?

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
NinerNZ:
I would have given up a this years first round pick for Cutler. I will give you that. I thought Cutler was worth a first round pick. On top of that, i would only give a very late rounder or one of our QB's (I personally don't believe Alex is broken and Hill is serviceable).

Now as I have mentioned in previous posts, just like a draft pick, Cutler has no guarantees to continue playing at a probowl level. He could:
1. decide to throw another trantrum
2. decide not to sign long term (which is why i don't believe the Bears are set for ten years YET..)
3. get injured

And that is my reasoning as to why you don't trade anything more than 1 high draft pick. If you do, you trade away potentially two probowlers for one. At the least, the draft picks become rotational guys, on average they become solid contributors and at the most, they become franchise faces.

Btw, i'm guessing NZ stands for New Zealand, no?

-9fA

In evaluating a QBs, you have to look at his mechanicals and feel for the game. You are slavishly adhering to that hope that because ASmith was picked first he somehow CANNOT be a bust. I suggest that you look at HOW he plays. It's not pretty. Hill has less measurables but has been a MUCH more effective QB over the same period. And he has had the same revolving door OC situation to contend with as has been thrown up as an excuse for Smith.
Cutler? He's the real deal. Over his three seasons in the league he has PROVED that he can play at a very high level. "Cutler has no guarantees to continue playing at a probowl level" etc. You're manufacturing suppositions. That does not substitute for reality. He has PROVED that he can. You have to throw out the "he might get injured" excuse. It's the "world stops turning" excuse; it's always there and applies to everything and everybody. Same with the long term signing, because it goes hand in hand with your first point: Throwing a tantrum. OK, That's legitimate.
So you have to balance "what EXTRA do I pay for an ELITE QB," against "how much do I discount what I pay for him because he displays petulant tendencies".
You say a very late round pick, or one of our QBs. That's just not realistic. (Maybe the Niners FO feels the same way. That's why they just can't seem to get anything done.) I estimate its worth a LOT more than that. What the Bears gave up was relatively cheap IMO. So we disagree.
You know . . . you're just TOO funny . . . "you trade away potentially two pro bowlers for one." Yeah, really . . . young pro bowl QB's are a dime a dozen. And 1st rounders are invariably pro bowlers, too.
Seriously . . . I don't always respond to posts where people are slavishly defending their position as opposed to having an open-minded discussion.
But, because you caught me out . . . NZ is as you suppose; grew up there . . . I felt that I owed you the courtesy. You're a young, up-and-coming engineer, I believe. From a great region . . . the world is your oyster, my friend! [/b]