Where should the Niners double down in the draft?

Originally posted by krizay:

Eh! I remember getting into on this board YEARS ago about this very topic. Pass rush versus coverage. I cited a Colts/Steelers playoff game. It seemed like the Steelers was teeing off on manning the whole game. When going back through the numbers, they only got pressure on Manning not even 1/3 of his passes. it was something like 50 drop backs and 15 plays with pressure.

My argument then and now and always will be.... You have to cover those WR's 100% of the pass plays regardless if there is pressure or not. Chances are you are not going to get pressure more than 33% of the pass plays so you better damn well have some guys who can cover.

There's the argument, if you put pressure on the QB early he gets jumpy and sees pressure that isnt there. That is true but again, if you don't have guys who can cover what good does that do you?

Obviously, it would be ideal to have both. But you have to be able to cover regardless. Great coverage and good pass rush is better than great pass rush and good coverage. Cause again, it's easier to get more consistent great coverage than it is to more consistent great pass rush.

Luckily for us, i believe we are a couple/few pieces away from having both. At the very least, we should be no more than 14 months away from having that

Nice post

Pass rusher would be swell

O-Line, O-Line, O-Line!

I really hope we can trade down from #9 and pick-up at least another 2nd rd pick and would love to get another 4th rd pick as well.

depends on who we get during free agency.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Pass rusher would be swell

Double down on pass rushers in a weak pass rush class? Doesn't make sense to me.

IMO you want to double down on positions of strength in the class. That's interior OL.

You also won't get a chance to put multiple pass rusher on the field at the same in all likelyhood. They're not going to put Thomas or Buckner on the bench. You may get a starter at Leo but the other guy(s) would be depth.

In the case of OL you have a chance to get multiple starters out of the class out there at the same time whether G or C.

Originally posted by krizay:
Eh! I remember getting into on this board YEARS ago about this very topic. Pass rush versus coverage. I cited a Colts/Steelers playoff game. It seemed like the Steelers was teeing off on manning the whole game. When going back through the numbers, they only got pressure on Manning not even 1/3 of his passes. it was something like 50 drop backs and 15 plays with pressure.

My argument then and now and always will be.... You have to cover those WR's 100% of the pass plays regardless if there is pressure or not. Chances are you are not going to get pressure more than 33% of the pass plays so you better damn well have some guys who can cover.

There's the argument, if you put pressure on the QB early he gets jumpy and sees pressure that isnt there. That is true but again, if you don't have guys who can cover what good does that do you?

Obviously, it would be ideal to have both. But you have to be able to cover regardless. Great coverage and good pass rush is better than great pass rush and good coverage. Cause again, it's easier to get more consistent great coverage than it is to more consistent great pass rush.

Luckily for us, i believe we are a couple/few pieces away from having both. At the very least, we should be no more than 14 months away from having that

I'm one of the few here that 100% agrees with you. I've always been a fan of great CBs. QBs typically get the ball out in around 2.5 to 3 seconds. You have to have coverage. If it was all about pass rush we would rush 6 or 7 each play.

I think free agency will dictate this and on what day do you double down. You can easily double down from rounds 1, 6 and 7. I wouldn't double down on rounds 1, 2 or 3.

We need a pass rush stud no doubt but we also need a starting outside CB, a primary backup outside CB/nickel CB and a dime CB.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
I think free agency will dictate this and on what day do you double down. You can easily double down from rounds 1, 6 and 7. I wouldn't double down on rounds 1, 2 or 3.

This. Especially with the space we still have, we're gonna fill a few gaps in free agency no doubt.

After the combine we will have a better idea. Last yr, DJ Jones, unheralded, looked awfully agile and quick for a 320 lb DT. His cone exhibition was the best I have seen. I am not a big combine guy but really like what he showed. And, based on that we ended up getting him. So combine is not all THAT helpful, but sometimes where you have a lot of potential talent in OL and and EDGE, but later on, in rds 2 and 3, that is where the combine can help. Also there are combines that basically teach us nothing. This yr I think the logjam at OL and EDGE, with only Nelson as a standout OL, the combine could help sort out OLs in rd 2 & 3, plus maybe later rd 1. Same exact thing holds for EDGE with no real stalwarts in Rd 1 but questions of talent in rds 2 and 3...but a lot of these guys look really close in talent. That is when the Combine can help change your mind.

My impossible dream is still Chubb falling to 6, we trade up with the Jets to jump in front of TB to get him. And we get Ansah in FA.

Chubb - Thomas - Buckner - Ansah

Leonard - Foster - Jewell

Spoon - Tartt - Colbert - Johnson/Fuller/Melvin

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:

My impossible dream is still Chubb falling to 6, we trade up with the Jets to jump in front of TB to get him. And we get Ansah in FA.

Chubb - Thomas - Buckner - Ansah

Leonard - Foster - Jewell

Spoon - Tartt - Colbert - Johnson/Fuller/Melvin

So you want to play Thomas at NT???

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:

My impossible dream is still Chubb falling to 6, we trade up with the Jets to jump in front of TB to get him. And we get Ansah in FA.

Chubb - Thomas - Buckner - Ansah

Leonard - Foster - Jewell

Spoon - Tartt - Colbert - Johnson/Fuller/Melvin

So you want to play Thomas at NT???

Well that was more the 3rd down defense. Nickel would take out Jewell and add Williams. Some have said Chubb is more a strong side DE and not a perfect fit at LEO so I played with the thought of Chubb on one side and Ansah on the other. Thomas and Buck would prob get a lot more sacks if they have to deal with Ansah and Chubb on the ends.

Maybe it's a dumb idea lol

Originally posted by krizay:
Eh! I remember getting into on this board YEARS ago about this very topic. Pass rush versus coverage. I cited a Colts/Steelers playoff game. It seemed like the Steelers was teeing off on manning the whole game. When going back through the numbers, they only got pressure on Manning not even 1/3 of his passes. it was something like 50 drop backs and 15 plays with pressure.

My argument then and now and always will be.... You have to cover those WR's 100% of the pass plays regardless if there is pressure or not. Chances are you are not going to get pressure more than 33% of the pass plays so you better damn well have some guys who can cover.

There's the argument, if you put pressure on the QB early he gets jumpy and sees pressure that isnt there. That is true but again, if you don't have guys who can cover what good does that do you?

Obviously, it would be ideal to have both. But you have to be able to cover regardless. Great coverage and good pass rush is better than great pass rush and good coverage. Cause again, it's easier to get more consistent great coverage than it is to more consistent great pass rush.

Luckily for us, i believe we are a couple/few pieces away from having both. At the very least, we should be no more than 14 months away from having that

I totally agree with you. We need to improve our coverage big time. Our defense wasn't that bad last year, but our 3rd down defense was terrible. We were ranked 30th in third down defense allowing our opponents to get a first down 42.99% of the time. That sucks. Some of it is scheme related which has been dictated by our personnel. I don't see why we would need to draft two edge rushers when we are usually in nickel on third downs. We really only need one good edge rusher to boost our pass rush, but the coverage has been terrible. It would be interesting to see how many times they targeted Johnson's guy on third downs, how our third down run defense was compared to passing 3rd downs, percentages at different distances, how much time they had to throw, etc.

Unless we got nuts during free agency, I think we get at least two corners in the draft. At the very least a corner and a safety. I wouldn't mind drafting a guy like Jackson or Ward early, and then later getting another guy with elite measurables like with Ahkello. If we can just improve our third down defense a little bit, this team could be scary good.