The Marcus Davenport Hype Train Is Leaving the Station

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Thats when you DO , LOVE the combine. Some people talk s**t but allows you to further make sure no stone is left un turned and where someones athleticism falls into place. Especially when youre trying to diagnose/compare position groups and what your system requires or specific measurables youre desiring.

F*** the combine, the only thing it shows is who has worked the hardest in practicing the drills (which does reveal some things) however these guys are football players, their ability to move is dictated as much by what they see than how fast they can move.

Now for Davenport the Senior Bowl practices will tell you all you need to know, beat up on draftable lineman, 1st rounder, struggle, 3rd rounder

I totally get where youre coming from...

Hmmm. Let me ask you this then. Do you think pro days are b******t?

Senior Bowl will be very telling for this kid. I was watching his stuff from last year vs Texas A&M and wasn't really impressed but stuff this year against lesser teams was a lot more impressive so I'm curious if it's just a raw kid improving or level of competition or combo of both.

I'm very nervous investing a fairly high first round pick on such a project. I know it worked out for the Giants when they grabbed JPP in the first so there is precedent there so the offseason will be very important to this kid.

Still...the more pass rushers that stand out in the first round helps our case in getting one of them. I'm hoping some other team takes the Arden Key plunge ahead of us.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
F*** the combine, the only thing it shows is who has worked the hardest in practicing the drills (which does reveal some things) however these guys are football players, their ability to move is dictated as much by what they see than how fast they can move.

Now for Davenport the Senior Bowl practices will tell you all you need to know, beat up on draftable lineman, 1st rounder, struggle, 3rd rounder

The combine shows some good things, you just shouldn't use it as the only thing that matters.

A guy has to have some solid tape but the combine allows you to see how athletic he is and project if he may be able to do some special things. It may not always translate to the game once the pads are on but certain drills help evaluate players to see how they can do in their positions.

Some of the drills are pretty important for pass rushers as they show explosiveness. I do agree though the biggest thing for Davenport or for any guys coming from small programs will be the Senior Bowl.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Would you take him if we drafted around 11?

Gonna depend on how he looks at the Senior Bowl. He's going to be a real boom/bust pick but of he booms, watch out, because the sky is the limit for him pretty much. Length, speed, motor, its all there.

Fudge I really thought this kid would be around late 2nd early 3rd....but no way it's happening now.

Like some have said we will see how he does at the senior bowl, I expect him to crush the combine.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

F*** the combine, the only thing it shows is who has worked the hardest in practicing the drills (which does reveal some things) however these guys are football players, their ability to move is dictated as much by what they see than how fast they can move.

Now for Davenport the Senior Bowl practices will tell you all you need to know, beat up on draftable lineman, 1st rounder, struggle, 3rd rounder

The combine shows some good things, you just shouldn't use it as the only thing that matters.

A guy has to have some solid tape but the combine allows you to see how athletic he is and project if he may be able to do some special things. It may not always translate to the game once the pads are on but certain drills help evaluate players to see how they can do in their positions.

Some of the drills are pretty important for pass rushers as they show explosiveness. I do agree though the biggest thing for Davenport or for any guys coming from small programs will be the Senior Bowl.

Agree. I also like that when you watch tape and know what this player did vs that player(assuming it was impressive or good sign) , you can go back after the combine to see what kind of athlete "your guy" was beating.

For example if Davenport was dominating some slower,weaker,guys that will be working for ups in a year then it has to be considered heavily.

Say if a LT was doing a great job vs speed rushers with a 4.5/4.6/4.7+ 40 then you know youre able to give further credit. Hope that makes sense. Just something else to factor in.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Agree. I also like that when you watch tape and know what this player did vs that player(assuming it was impressive or good sign) , you can go back after the combine to see what kind of athlete "your guy" was beating.

For example if Davenport was dominating some slower,weaker,guys that will be working for ups in a year then it has to be considered heavily.

Say if a LT was doing a great job vs speed rushers with a 4.5/4.6/4.7+ 40 then you know youre able to give further credit. Hope that makes sense. Just something else to factor in.

The 40 time of any position outside of CB, WR, is way overrated, no other position ever runs in that far in a straight line (Go route and defending it) all other positions you need to look at tape or watch them in person to see how fast they actually are.

The agility drills show you a lot in certain positions, the time doesn't matter (they can slip) but do they look fluid and comfortable.

The Bench Press has very little to do with strength, after about 15 reps the most important attribute is stamina.

The jumps do indicate explosion, but the most important thing is to get a look at the guys up close, have they been working and how comfortable are they.

The combine has a place but it is way overhyped, as others have said the smart teams compare it to film. I say the smartest team see's through it and just use it to have a look up close.

Still remember hearing someone think it was Bill Walsh's son say that Bill ignored Jerry's 40, but saw someone run between 10-30 yards as fast as anyone he'd seen before and saw elite acceleration that would translate onto the field

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Agree. I also like that when you watch tape and know what this player did vs that player(assuming it was impressive or good sign) , you can go back after the combine to see what kind of athlete "your guy" was beating.

For example if Davenport was dominating some slower,weaker,guys that will be working for ups in a year then it has to be considered heavily.

Say if a LT was doing a great job vs speed rushers with a 4.5/4.6/4.7+ 40 then you know youre able to give further credit. Hope that makes sense. Just something else to factor in.

The 40 time of any position outside of CB, WR, is way overrated, no other position ever runs in that far in a straight line (Go route and defending it) all other positions you need to look at tape or watch them in person to see how fast they actually are.

The agility drills show you a lot in certain positions, the time doesn't matter (they can slip) but do they look fluid and comfortable.

The Bench Press has very little to do with strength, after about 15 reps the most important attribute is stamina.

The jumps do indicate explosion, but the most important thing is to get a look at the guys up close, have they been working and how comfortable are they.

The combine has a place but it is way overhyped, as others have said the smart teams compare it to film. I say the smartest team see's through it and just use it to have a look up close.

Still remember hearing someone think it was Bill Walsh's son say that Bill ignored Jerry's 40, but saw someone run between 10-30 yards as fast as anyone he'd seen before and saw elite acceleration that would translate onto the field

20 yard SS,3 cones and 10 yard splits are good.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

I totally get where youre coming from...

Hmmm. Let me ask you this then. Do you think pro days are b******t?

Not entirely, another chance to get up close and see how fluid and comfortable people are

Davenport played well enough in his power 5 outings. Something like 3.5 or 4 sacks in his 5 games. Senior Bowl is going to be huge for him.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
The 40 time of any position outside of CB, WR, is way overrated, no other position ever runs in that far in a straight line (Go route and defending it) all other positions you need to look at tape or watch them in person to see how fast they actually are.

The agility drills show you a lot in certain positions, the time doesn't matter (they can slip) but do they look fluid and comfortable.

The Bench Press has very little to do with strength, after about 15 reps the most important attribute is stamina.

The jumps do indicate explosion, but the most important thing is to get a look at the guys up close, have they been working and how comfortable are they.

The combine has a place but it is way overhyped, as others have said the smart teams compare it to film. I say the smartest team see's through it and just use it to have a look up close.

Still remember hearing someone think it was Bill Walsh's son say that Bill ignored Jerry's 40, but saw someone run between 10-30 yards as fast as anyone he'd seen before and saw elite acceleration that would translate onto the field

It's a good way to compare people you already like. As Mike Mayock usually says...if you expect a guy to be fast and he runs fast then no big deal. If you expect a guy to be fast and he runs slow then you go back to the tape and see if you should be concerned(no)

It is a good way to project though. If a guy is raw combine numbers show that there's something there to play with. Where teams get in trouble is drafting those kids early. Potential is great, you want to draft a kid who can get better and better but you want there to be a baseline of talent and tape already.

We've seen our "speed" draft in 2012 and how wonderful that turned out. 40 time isn't everything but you want to see your pass rushers post an impressive 10 yard split as it shows they have a pretty good get off. You want to see good 3 cone and SS numbers from them because it shows they can move quickly.

Basically use the combine as a reinforcement or eye opening for guys maybe you didn't have graded as highly but not as the ultimate evaluation. If a guy puts up insane numbers and you had him ranked as a 5th rounder on your board....take another look to see if you missed something but don't automatically move him to a 2nd round grade without reviewing the tape again or checking his off the field stuff.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Davenport played well enough in his power 5 outings. Something like 3.5 or 4 sacks in his 5 games. Senior Bowl is going to be huge for him.

I didn't realize the A&M tape I was first looking at with him was from 2016, he definitely looks better on all the stuff I've seen from 2017 so I'm excited to see what he can do at the senior bowl.

I'd still be hesitant to draft him with our pick just because he's still such a project but if we manage to trade down and other guys are gone I'd be ok with him being the pick if he shows up at the senior bowl.

The more I see out of Landry the more I want him..which probably means he'll have himself a hell of a Senior Bowl and go before our pick :(

Originally posted by genus49:

I didn't realize the A&M tape I was first looking at with him was from 2016, he definitely looks better on all the stuff I've seen from 2017 so I'm excited to see what he can do at the senior bowl.

I'd still be hesitant to draft him with our pick just because he's still such a project but if we manage to trade down and other guys are gone I'd be ok with him being the pick if he shows up at the senior bowl.

The more I see out of Landry the more I want him..which probably means he'll have himself a hell of a Senior Bowl and go before our pick :(

Davenport seems like a prospect 3-4 teams would drool over. Since Leo is playing wide 9 in space I think Landry might be the better fit here.

I'm no scout and just going off prototypes with that but right now I prefer Landry.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Davenport seems like a prospect 3-4 teams would drool over. Since Leo is playing wide 9 in space I think Landry might be the better fit here.

I'm no scout and just going off prototypes with that but right now I prefer Landry.

I think Davenport can fit great in any scheme. Speed and ridiculous length in an edge rusher play well everywhere.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Davenport seems like a prospect 3-4 teams would drool over. Since Leo is playing wide 9 in space I think Landry might be the better fit here.

I'm no scout and just going off prototypes with that but right now I prefer Landry.

Landry wouldn't crack LEO for years, because teams would run all over him. He's a Nickel rusher day one, and maybe a future SAM in base, we have to work out if that's enough, probably is but depends what else is there.

Davenport is all on Senior Bowl and then interviews, there's a reason he had to play that level of competition, now we need to know if he's ready to step up in the pro's.