Cheers MD, thanks again for all the hard work and insight.
I can see your points for the most part on your picks. I really wanted Adams, from the 5th round down after catching on to him late last season. Just seemed to be a great fit for SAM or maybe even the LEO positions.
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MadDog49er Draft Analysis for the Class of 2017
Apr 30, 2017 at 12:31 AM
- KezarLivin
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Apr 30, 2017 at 12:33 AM
- PacTiger
- Member
- Posts: 30,146
Originally posted by AB81Rules:Originally posted by JBrack:Originally posted by AB81Rules:No disrespect but saying Williams quit because of his sisters death is a red flag is a bit harsh IMO.
Yeah that rubbed me wrong too. I didn't care for that judgmental comment. I actually saw a special on that and he could just never get over the fact that it wasn't his fault. He thought he could have done more somehow. She was misdiagnosed at the hospital as being severely dehydrated. She was actually having heart attacks and later died. Meanwhile he is becoming a success and all he can think about is his sister and he starts to feel guilty about his success. He finally learned how to cope and accept the fact it wasn't his fault and thats what healed him and troubled him. Very touching story!
If he had just quit like Anthony Davis did, then came back, and quit again, then ok, but not because his sister died. I agree with you JBrack.
He was kicked out of uconn because he used a stolen credit card. Just before he was kicked out he was also accused of shoplifting. This kid seems to have an emotional unbalance. Quitting football because of his sisters death can be viewed several different ways when you take into account everything about him.
Apr 30, 2017 at 2:53 AM
- flynhayn15
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,687
One thing people hated about Baalke was that he drafted the best player available on his board like you, which means that if player who he had given a higher grade to, fell to a later round, (cough, cough Robinson) he would take him even if that position was just addressed the round before. He would do this regardless even if a player at a position of need that fit our system was also there and whom might have also made a questionable decision during the draft process. (Cough, cough, Dak)
Shanahan or Lynch said in the post draft press conference, that they wanted Beathard and Williams and they predetermined they were gonna take them late 3rd early 4th if they were there. It's a strategy I don't necessarily agree with, (I would have loved to grab Lawson and rolled the dice that the others would still be available) but Shanahan told us, if you see someone you want, you go get them. Adam Peters also said that was the biggest lesson he learned from Elway, when he over payed to trade up and draft Lynch last year. So I guess it's something we will have to deal with and get used to for at least the next 6 years on draft day.
Shanahan or Lynch said in the post draft press conference, that they wanted Beathard and Williams and they predetermined they were gonna take them late 3rd early 4th if they were there. It's a strategy I don't necessarily agree with, (I would have loved to grab Lawson and rolled the dice that the others would still be available) but Shanahan told us, if you see someone you want, you go get them. Adam Peters also said that was the biggest lesson he learned from Elway, when he over payed to trade up and draft Lynch last year. So I guess it's something we will have to deal with and get used to for at least the next 6 years on draft day.
[ Edited by flynhayn15 on Apr 30, 2017 at 3:00 AM ]
Apr 30, 2017 at 3:32 AM
- mayo49
- Veteran
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Thanks, Mad.
Apr 30, 2017 at 5:13 AM
- footballxpaul
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,468
Originally posted by JBrack:
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
No disrespect but saying Williams quit because of his sisters death is a red flag is a bit harsh IMO.
Yeah that rubbed me wrong too. I didn't care for that judgmental comment. I actually saw a special on that and he could just never get over the fact that it wasn't his fault. He thought he could have done more somehow. She was misdiagnosed at the hospital as being severely dehydrated. She was actually having heart attacks and later died. Meanwhile he is becoming a success and all he can think about is his sister and he starts to feel guilty about his success. He finally learned how to cope and accept the fact it wasn't his fault and thats what healed him and troubled him. Very touching story!
damn, ya how the he'll is anyone counting that as a red flag? Not only md but NFL network/ESPN been saying the same thing
Apr 30, 2017 at 6:03 AM
- miked1978
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- Posts: 11,062
Good write up. I dont agree with everything but cheers regardless.
Apr 30, 2017 at 6:35 AM
- MadDog49er
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 19,368
Originally posted by MrCrab49ers:
MadDog I usually agree on most of your posts, but I have to disagree on some of your assessments on these guys. Can't have choir boys as a team.
I love the Foster, Williams and Taylor picks. With these picks, 49ers are interested team to watch again
As for Beathard, I'm sure many said the same on Brady. You just never know, QB tough to evaluate this late.
Overall, I'm happy with the draft plus added 2nd and 3rd round next year. So, far, I'm impressed on the first draft of this new regime. Go 49ers!!!
Agreed that you don't need to fill a roster for Mother Teresa's, but you do want your leaders to exhibit maturity and solid judgment. Foster lacks both right now. Bowman can help, and that's why he should remain as the MLB.
Apr 30, 2017 at 6:37 AM
- MadDog49er
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 19,368
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
No disrespect but saying Williams quit because of his sisters death is a red flag is a bit harsh IMO.
It is part of the equation when evaluating. I think he is a good kid.
Apr 30, 2017 at 6:42 AM
- MadDog49er
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 19,368
A lot of people are cheering for Joe Williams and so am I. To put i perspective, I had Williams as my number 9 best back. He was the 11th back taken. So, I wasn't marking him as the 19th or 29th. I like the kid and talent.
At the same time, when a player quits on a team, regardless of the circumstances, a team has to ask the question if he will repeat the action a second time. That is a red flag. It is not a mark on his character. Red flags can include injury concerns, a chronic knee problem, and more.
At the same time, when a player quits on a team, regardless of the circumstances, a team has to ask the question if he will repeat the action a second time. That is a red flag. It is not a mark on his character. Red flags can include injury concerns, a chronic knee problem, and more.
Apr 30, 2017 at 6:46 AM
- Sourball
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,279
As always, look forward to, and enjoy your take on things MadDog
As for the troubled players, free agency brought in all high character guys plus our small core of solid talent we kept that should show these guys how to be pros and toe the line.
We could have really used a fiery Charles Haley type to wake up the team last year. Remember Charles Haleys meltdown when we lost to the Raiders and then Raider Ronnie Lott had to go to the 49ers locker room and calm him down? Last years team was sleepwalking through the season and.nobody on the team seemed to have the fire to wake them
Foster- He says Willis's greatness is his goal? If I were Lynch I would get PW around him to mentor the guy.
(Too bad Gore isn't still here to take Williams under his wing).
With multiple holes in the team, there is no way to fill all the needs in one off season so I'm hoping this is the core and next year will bring FQB, stud WR and pass rusher to plug into a solid nucleus.
JMO
What is your take on the UDFAs? Any diamonds there?
As for the troubled players, free agency brought in all high character guys plus our small core of solid talent we kept that should show these guys how to be pros and toe the line.
We could have really used a fiery Charles Haley type to wake up the team last year. Remember Charles Haleys meltdown when we lost to the Raiders and then Raider Ronnie Lott had to go to the 49ers locker room and calm him down? Last years team was sleepwalking through the season and.nobody on the team seemed to have the fire to wake them
Foster- He says Willis's greatness is his goal? If I were Lynch I would get PW around him to mentor the guy.
(Too bad Gore isn't still here to take Williams under his wing).
With multiple holes in the team, there is no way to fill all the needs in one off season so I'm hoping this is the core and next year will bring FQB, stud WR and pass rusher to plug into a solid nucleus.
JMO
What is your take on the UDFAs? Any diamonds there?
[ Edited by Sourball on Apr 30, 2017 at 6:53 AM ]
Apr 30, 2017 at 6:56 AM
- 49erBigMac
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,148
Originally posted by MadDog49er:Agreed that you don't need to fill a roster for Mother Teresa's, but you do want your leaders to exhibit maturity and solid judgment. Foster lacks both right now. Bowman can help, and that's why he should remain as the MLB.
Great work this draft season as always MD, I too was surprised how we manipulated the 4th round which ended up having a lot of talent in. I think it really could have been a A+ slam dunk but there are question marks.
I think Foster has the perfect role model in Bowman, and I bet Willis will be in his ear as well, taking the extra picks gained next year into account it's an A- from me.
Apr 30, 2017 at 7:00 AM
- Cisco0623
- Veteran
- Posts: 11,086
Honest evaluations.
Overall I like what they did, especially round 1.
Thomas may be redundant and it was totally unsexy after drafting AA and buckner last year, but he is better than both of them coming out. This kid is super high character with a non stop motor and I see him getting even bigger.
Foster is a big gamble because you can tell he has a good heart, but is immature. I don't see Aldon issues tho. I'm more worried about him being with the wrong crowd etc. That being said he has massive potential and easily loves football. I hope the new regime has a culture in place that helps him thrive.
CJ is a whatever to me because we weren't looking for a FQB here. He's a 3rd string project for Kyle. At best he is a solid backup or better for a wco and at worst he's a dud. Not a big gamble to me, lots of potential with zero risk.
Almost all other guys are decent players that could help contribute first year. If we get 3 starters and 2 other regular contributors (special teams etc) easily a solid draft.
Let's see what his coaching staff can do!
That first round really setupnourndefense with an ice foundation. If AA finally makes good progress this year we are in for a treat with this young talented front. I can see Buckner, thomas, foster all pushing each other. That's what we need.
Overall I like what they did, especially round 1.
Thomas may be redundant and it was totally unsexy after drafting AA and buckner last year, but he is better than both of them coming out. This kid is super high character with a non stop motor and I see him getting even bigger.
Foster is a big gamble because you can tell he has a good heart, but is immature. I don't see Aldon issues tho. I'm more worried about him being with the wrong crowd etc. That being said he has massive potential and easily loves football. I hope the new regime has a culture in place that helps him thrive.
CJ is a whatever to me because we weren't looking for a FQB here. He's a 3rd string project for Kyle. At best he is a solid backup or better for a wco and at worst he's a dud. Not a big gamble to me, lots of potential with zero risk.
Almost all other guys are decent players that could help contribute first year. If we get 3 starters and 2 other regular contributors (special teams etc) easily a solid draft.
Let's see what his coaching staff can do!
That first round really setupnourndefense with an ice foundation. If AA finally makes good progress this year we are in for a treat with this young talented front. I can see Buckner, thomas, foster all pushing each other. That's what we need.
Apr 30, 2017 at 7:00 AM
- 49erBigMac
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,148
Originally posted by flynhayn15:One thing people hated about Baalke was that he drafted the best player available on his board like you, which means that if player who he had given a higher grade to, fell to a later round, (cough, cough Robinson) he would take him even if that position was just addressed the round before. He would do this regardless even if a player at a position of need that fit our system was also there and whom might have also made a questionable decision during the draft process. (Cough, cough, Dak)
Shanahan or Lynch said in the post draft press conference, that they wanted Beathard and Williams and they predetermined they were gonna take them late 3rd early 4th if they were there. It's a strategy I don't necessarily agree with, (I would have loved to grab Lawson and rolled the dice that the others would still be available) but Shanahan told us, if you see someone you want, you go get them. Adam Peters also said that was the biggest lesson he learned from Elway, when he over payed to trade up and draft Lynch last year. So I guess it's something we will have to deal with and get used to for at least the next 6 years on draft day.
Great points, we all like value, but at the end of the day it only matters if you miss and there were high rated players who you pass on who succeed.
Example if Peterman pans out and Beathard doesn't they'll be questions.
I quite like the approach of getting your guys. I'll drink the Kool Aid for now
Apr 30, 2017 at 7:06 AM
- tohara3
- Veteran
- Posts: 28,604
Nice evaluations MadDog49er agree with the B grade. Very solid 1st 3 picks to start the draft
Apr 30, 2017 at 7:12 AM
- Karma
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,165
A couple thoughts:
1. I appreciate your attempt to look at the draft as objectively as possible. As fans, we tend to think every pick is going to be the greatest to ever play the position and we ignore potential pitfalls.
2. I am actually more worried about the Thomas pick than the Foster one. I have/had high hopes for Buckner, AA, Blair, Tank, and Dial to be more effective in the new 4-3 alignment so it seems like Thomas just creates a log jam. Foster has the elite athleticism and instinct combo that makes for a great linebacker. Yes, he showed some immaturity but Lynch did his due diligence. Also, the MLB is often the leader of the defensive, but not always. For now we have Bow to do that and Foster can be mentored. If he eventually takes over for Bow but he is not the "leader" it is just as easy for a safety or down lineman to take that role.
3. You are right to call Williams past a red flag. Mental health is a serious concern. It doesn't mean the kid isn't worth drafting or has "character" issues, but it does mean he has the potential to struggle with stress or challenges. Hopefully the team has counselors on retainer and the kid can continue to process his grief and guilt.
4. Your criticism of Beathard, and to a lesser extend Colbert, echos my concerns at the time, but I had another thought. In the past we have seen players drafted based on outstanding measurables. The thought was we could coach these raw freaks up to be studs. I think Beathard and Colbert were selected because they demonstrated leadership and IQ on the field. They might be guys who know the game and can excel if given the opportunity to outwork the competition. I am not sure either will pan out, but it is an interesting idea.
Overall, I am pleased with this draft. I love the Foster and Williams picks the most, but the chance to watch these guys develop and surprise is exciting. Thanks again for all the work you do on this board!
1. I appreciate your attempt to look at the draft as objectively as possible. As fans, we tend to think every pick is going to be the greatest to ever play the position and we ignore potential pitfalls.
2. I am actually more worried about the Thomas pick than the Foster one. I have/had high hopes for Buckner, AA, Blair, Tank, and Dial to be more effective in the new 4-3 alignment so it seems like Thomas just creates a log jam. Foster has the elite athleticism and instinct combo that makes for a great linebacker. Yes, he showed some immaturity but Lynch did his due diligence. Also, the MLB is often the leader of the defensive, but not always. For now we have Bow to do that and Foster can be mentored. If he eventually takes over for Bow but he is not the "leader" it is just as easy for a safety or down lineman to take that role.
3. You are right to call Williams past a red flag. Mental health is a serious concern. It doesn't mean the kid isn't worth drafting or has "character" issues, but it does mean he has the potential to struggle with stress or challenges. Hopefully the team has counselors on retainer and the kid can continue to process his grief and guilt.
4. Your criticism of Beathard, and to a lesser extend Colbert, echos my concerns at the time, but I had another thought. In the past we have seen players drafted based on outstanding measurables. The thought was we could coach these raw freaks up to be studs. I think Beathard and Colbert were selected because they demonstrated leadership and IQ on the field. They might be guys who know the game and can excel if given the opportunity to outwork the competition. I am not sure either will pan out, but it is an interesting idea.
Overall, I am pleased with this draft. I love the Foster and Williams picks the most, but the chance to watch these guys develop and surprise is exciting. Thanks again for all the work you do on this board!