Trade Down?

Originally posted by gold49digger:
Do people want to trade down to get more picks or because people think no one is worthy of the 2nd pick?

Mix of both and because the highest rated defensive players outside of Garrett are 3-4 DEs which we don't need (Allen, Thomas).

It feels like a rough draft to have the #2 pick, because there's only one elite player at a valuable position in this draft and that's Myles Garrett. There are elite RBs, DTs, and safeties, but those aren't premier positions. There isn't an elite QB, but there are 3-4 very good ones who will likely go in the first round. The Browns are in great position to take Garrett at #1 and either Trubisky/Kizer at 12 or Watson/Mahomes at the end of the first round.

There are some guys who will be available after round 1 who aren't that far behind these QBs and should prevent teams from reaching too much (Mahomes, Webb, Peterman, Kaaya). There are also options in free agency and plenty of promising QBs in next year's draft. I don't get the sense that teams are going to trade up to the top 5 out of desperation for a QB. I think we'll take Trubisky or Kizer at 2 out of need and an inability to pull off a decent trade even though I'd rather see us trade down and pick up a 2nd round pick or future 1st.

At this point in the 2011 offseason Cam Newton was considered a top 20 pick, not a guarantee No. 1 overall. Best player rated in that draft was Von Miller. He wound up going 2nd.

Sound familiar?

In my opinion, Deshaun Watson will end up going No 1. He is a winner, all the college records etc. he is going to come into the combine and workouts and flat out impress everyone - he is high character and a fantastic athlete and a winner. Hugh Jackson is an offensive guy. Watson is going to be his pick.

I'm not saying Watson will be Newton or anything. But history shows you don't pass on the best QB prospect at No. 1. And Watson will emerge as the No. 1 prospect.

So here we are at 2. We can take Garrett. Or we can leverage Garrett for a boatload of picks. And there will be multiple teams willing to make that deal. I'd be fine drafting Garrett as our LEO. I'd be fine leveraging him for the next few years.

I prefer to do that. Garrett will be gone #1. I wish we could get him. But he will likely be gone. He would help this team the most. I think the dropoff between #1 - #2 is big this year. At least for what this team needs.

I would not mind trading back to #8 - #12 or so and stock piling more picks.

Originally posted by midrdan:
At this point in the 2011 offseason Cam Newton was considered a top 20 pick, not a guarantee No. 1 overall. Best player rated in that draft was Von Miller. He wound up going 2nd.

Sound familiar?

In my opinion, Deshaun Watson will end up going No 1. He is a winner, all the college records etc. he is going to come into the combine and workouts and flat out impress everyone - he is high character and a fantastic athlete and a winner. Hugh Jackson is an offensive guy. Watson is going to be his pick.

I'm not saying Watson will be Newton or anything. But history shows you don't pass on the best QB prospect at No. 1. And Watson will emerge as the No. 1 prospect.

So here we are at 2. We can take Garrett. Or we can leverage Garrett for a boatload of picks. And there will be multiple teams willing to make that deal. I'd be fine drafting Garrett as our LEO. I'd be fine leveraging him for the next few years.

Watson is going to be the 3rd or 4th QB taken.

He's nothing like Newton. Newton was ranked 11th on CBS primarily due to character concerns. Draft analysts are not privy to team interviews. Newton obviously alleviated many of the character concerns when he met with the Panthers, so you're left with a 6'5 250 QB with the best physical tools of any QB prospect ever coming off a season where he put up an absurd 182.0 passer rating and won a national championship. On talent alone, Newton was always in the running for the #1 pick -- it was just a matter of how much different analysts penalized him for taking money to go to school and if they blamed him or his dad.

Watson is a little undersized, has a good, but not great arm, doesn't see the field particularly well from the pocket, and makes a ton of bad decisions/reads which result in interceptions. He doesn't have the near physical talent of Kizer and Mahomes, let alone Cam Newton. He's been compared to a slower, shorter, less accurate Marcus Mariota which is a valid comparison. Guys like that don't go #1, especially when there is a dominant edge rusher in the same class. If we want Garrett to fall to #2, either Trubisky or Kizer have to blow teams away at the combine and in team interviews.

We will not trade Myles if Cleve goes Watson. If we did it would have to be something so painful no one woud do it.

Switch 1st rd pick this yr plus we get their #2 and #3 this yr.

Then we get their #1,2 and 3 picks in 2018

then we get their #1,2 and 3 picks in 2019 also

Even then....i would still be recluctant to take the trade. You gotta have IMPACT players at OLB, DE, NT, CB, if you want to succeed. .

Originally posted by midrdan:

At this point in the 2011 offseason Cam Newton was considered a top 20 pick, not a guarantee No. 1 overall. Best player rated in that draft was Von Miller. He wound up going 2nd.

Sound familiar?

In my opinion, Deshaun Watson will end up going No 1. He is a winner, all the college records etc. he is going to come into the combine and workouts and flat out impress everyone - he is high character and a fantastic athlete and a winner. Hugh Jackson is an offensive guy. Watson is going to be his pick.

I'm not saying Watson will be Newton or anything. But history shows you don't pass on the best QB prospect at No. 1. And Watson will emerge as the No. 1 prospect.

So here we are at 2. We can take Garrett. Or we can leverage Garrett for a boatload of picks. And there will be multiple teams willing to make that deal. I'd be fine drafting Garrett as our LEO. I'd be fine leveraging him for the next few years.

Hope you are right. If myles falls to us John would, hopefully, grab him in 5 seconds.

I would totally trade myles G if he's there at 2 for the titans 2 1st round picks...

Corey davis will be amazing in a WCO. Pair him with takk in the 1st and haason reddick in the 2nd...

Or Malik hooker, a shut down #1 cb, and Ingram in FA


But if not the titans, take myles G

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by midrdan:

At this point in the 2011 offseason Cam Newton was considered a top 20 pick, not a guarantee No. 1 overall. Best player rated in that draft was Von Miller. He wound up going 2nd.

Sound familiar?

In my opinion, Deshaun Watson will end up going No 1. He is a winner, all the college records etc. he is going to come into the combine and workouts and flat out impress everyone - he is high character and a fantastic athlete and a winner. Hugh Jackson is an offensive guy. Watson is going to be his pick.

I'm not saying Watson will be Newton or anything. But history shows you don't pass on the best QB prospect at No. 1. And Watson will emerge as the No. 1 prospect.

So here we are at 2. We can take Garrett. Or we can leverage Garrett for a boatload of picks. And there will be multiple teams willing to make that deal. I'd be fine drafting Garrett as our LEO. I'd be fine leveraging him for the next few years.

Watson is going to be the 3rd or 4th QB taken.

He's nothing like Newton. Newton was ranked 11th on CBS primarily due to character concerns. Draft analysts are not privy to team interviews. Newton obviously alleviated many of the character concerns when he met with the Panthers, so you're left with a 6'5 250 QB with the best physical tools of any QB prospect ever coming off a season where he put up an absurd 182.0 passer rating and won a national championship. On talent alone, Newton was always in the running for the #1 pick -- it was just a matter of how much different analysts penalized him for taking money to go to school and if they blamed him or his dad.

Watson is a little undersized, has a good, but not great arm, doesn't see the field particularly well from the pocket, and makes a ton of bad decisions/reads which result in interceptions. He doesn't have the near physical talent of Kizer and Mahomes, let alone Cam Newton. He's been compared to a slower, shorter, less accurate Marcus Mariota which is a valid comparison. Guys like that don't go #1, especially when there is a dominant edge rusher in the same class. If we want Garrett to fall to #2, either Trubisky or Kizer have to blow teams away at the combine and in team interviews.

Newton played only one year. Great year, yes, but the tape on him was limited. He was not known as a pocket passer. His drawbacks at the time: not proficient in the pocket or making the right reads, accuracy was inconsistent, footwork sloppy.

So basically you're saying his 2 inches (Watson is 6'3") and 30 pounds make him worthy of No 1. overall but Watson - with the more distinguished college career and stats every bit as good - is going to be taken behind three other guys in a weak class.

We shall see ... my money is on this kid being taken No 1 overall.

All I know is I saw Watson go to two championship games, keep calm and drive the ball 80 yards to score on the most nfl calibur college defense (look how many bama players will be 1st round picks). sound like any qb we know???

Watson is a winner, I would be more comfortable with taking him than Trubisky or Kizer.

I would oly take Mahomes in round 2

Webb in round 3

Kaaya in round 4.

Originally posted by gold49digger:
Do people want to trade down to get more picks or because people think no one is worthy of the 2nd pick?

If Myles is gone.....move back

If Garrett is gone I have been a huge fan of trading out of that #2 pick.

HOWEVER...

The intent of the trade down should be to gain the capital necessary to trade back into the back half of the first round.

Ex:

49ers trade down to 9 with Cincy. Pick up an extra 2, 3 and 5/6. Pick your guy at 9...then trade back into the 1st round using your own 2nd, one of you 4ths and the 6th you got from Cincy.

You end up with 2 1sts
the 2nd rd pick from Cincy
2 3rds (one from Cincy)
1 4th
3 5ths
2 6ths

Something like that I think is highly feasible in the case Garrett is chosen #1 overall.

Originally posted by midrdan:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by midrdan:

At this point in the 2011 offseason Cam Newton was considered a top 20 pick, not a guarantee No. 1 overall. Best player rated in that draft was Von Miller. He wound up going 2nd.

Sound familiar?

In my opinion, Deshaun Watson will end up going No 1. He is a winner, all the college records etc. he is going to come into the combine and workouts and flat out impress everyone - he is high character and a fantastic athlete and a winner. Hugh Jackson is an offensive guy. Watson is going to be his pick.

I'm not saying Watson will be Newton or anything. But history shows you don't pass on the best QB prospect at No. 1. And Watson will emerge as the No. 1 prospect.

So here we are at 2. We can take Garrett. Or we can leverage Garrett for a boatload of picks. And there will be multiple teams willing to make that deal. I'd be fine drafting Garrett as our LEO. I'd be fine leveraging him for the next few years.

Watson is going to be the 3rd or 4th QB taken.

He's nothing like Newton. Newton was ranked 11th on CBS primarily due to character concerns. Draft analysts are not privy to team interviews. Newton obviously alleviated many of the character concerns when he met with the Panthers, so you're left with a 6'5 250 QB with the best physical tools of any QB prospect ever coming off a season where he put up an absurd 182.0 passer rating and won a national championship. On talent alone, Newton was always in the running for the #1 pick -- it was just a matter of how much different analysts penalized him for taking money to go to school and if they blamed him or his dad.

Watson is a little undersized, has a good, but not great arm, doesn't see the field particularly well from the pocket, and makes a ton of bad decisions/reads which result in interceptions. He doesn't have the near physical talent of Kizer and Mahomes, let alone Cam Newton. He's been compared to a slower, shorter, less accurate Marcus Mariota which is a valid comparison. Guys like that don't go #1, especially when there is a dominant edge rusher in the same class. If we want Garrett to fall to #2, either Trubisky or Kizer have to blow teams away at the combine and in team interviews.

Newton played only one year. Great year, yes, but the tape on him was limited. He was not known as a pocket passer. His drawbacks at the time: not proficient in the pocket or making the right reads, accuracy was inconsistent, footwork sloppy.

So basically you're saying his 2 inches (Watson is 6'3") and 30 pounds make him worthy of No 1. overall but Watson - with the more distinguished college career and stats every bit as good - is going to be taken behind three other guys in a weak class.

We shall see ... my money is on this kid being taken No 1 overall.

I don't think Watson is 6'3 220 so it's really a difference of 2.5-3" and 35-40 pounds to go along with Newton having a much stronger arm coming out of college. That's a massive difference.

Trubisky put up better stats this year than Watson (by far if you pull out the hurricane game). Kizer is 2-3" taller, ~20 pounds heavier, with a much better arm and was as efficient this year (pulling out the hurricane game) with far less talent around him. Mahomes is also bigger with way more arm talent than Watson. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Watson get drafted in the 25-35 range.