Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:Williams was just 1 of 4 different receivers that had 90 yards in that game...didn't even lead the team in yards (Leggett) or TD's (Walk-on WR Renfro).
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:Would Watson and Clemson won the National Championship without Mike Williams? My guess is they wouldn't have.. Deshaun Watson was a phenomenal college QB, but I was way more impressed with him last year than this year.. Not because he wasn't good this year, but he seemed to rely on Mike Williams a lot and the 50/50 balls in 2016... More TD passes -- More INTs... He ran way more in 2015, probably because there wasn't Mike Williams..
Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Without Williams, Watson would've thrown twice as many interceptions. Williams bailed Watson out all season long with his erratic accuracy, hard to miss Williams, but Watson did it plenty. Deshaun Watson probably wouldn't even be in 1st round discussion without Mike Williams
Watson also put up even better numbers without Williams a year ago.
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Mike Williams (WR Clemson)
Mar 19, 2017 at 1:00 PM
- jcs
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Mar 19, 2017 at 3:06 PM
- 49erInTheMidwest
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Originally posted by jcs:Do they win without Mike Williams though? Do the pick plays work if they aren't playing over top Mike Williams on the other side of the field in fear of him winning the jump ball?? Do they make it down the field without Mike Williams Mossing dudes on jump balls?
Williams was just 1 of 4 different receivers that had 90 yards in that game...didn't even lead the team in yards (Leggett) or TD's (Walk-on WR Renfro).
Mar 19, 2017 at 3:09 PM
- jcs
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Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Do they win without Mike Williams though? Do the pick plays work if they aren't playing over top Mike Williams on the other side of the field in fear of him winning the jump ball?? Do they make it down the field without Mike Williams Mossing dudes on jump balls?
They would have beat Alabama in 15 without Williams if their Special Teams did their job. Williams is a good WR but he wasn't irreplaceable on that team, 2015 proves that.
Mar 19, 2017 at 3:16 PM
- 49erInTheMidwest
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:I'm not saying he was solely relying on him? But did they win over Bama in 2016 without the evident threat Williams provided?? He threw the ball almost 100 times more in 2016, the offense as a whole relied on the pass game more because of Mike Williams.. Other guys put up big numbers because of Mike Williams pulling safeties over the top... Watson threw more picks because he didn't go to the single covered guys enough, also he looked less accurate last season? I'm not saying Watson is bad.. in fact I said I was more impressed with him 2 seasons ago?
Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Would Watson and Clemson won the National Championship without Mike Williams? My guess is they wouldn't have.. Deshaun Watson was a phenomenal college QB, but I was way more impressed with him last year than this year.. Not because he wasn't good this year, but he seemed to rely on Mike Williams a lot and the 50/50 balls in 2016... More TD passes -- More INTs... He ran way more in 2015, probably because there wasn't Mike Williams..
None of what you wrote changes the fact that Watson had both a higher QB rating and a higher YPA without Williams out there on the field, so its not like Watson was solely reliant on him and would have been crap otherwise.
Mar 19, 2017 at 3:18 PM
- 49erInTheMidwest
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Originally posted by jcs:But they didn't.. and I certainly don't believe they would have in 16 without him, go watch the game again and tell me who the biggest difference maker on their offense was.. If you don't answer with Mike Williams, you're lying to yourself.
They would have beat Alabama in 15 without Williams if their Special Teams did their job. Williams is a good WR but he wasn't irreplaceable on that team, 2015 proves that.
Mar 19, 2017 at 4:08 PM
- jcs
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Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Originally posted by jcs:But they didn't.. and I certainly don't believe they would have in 16 without him, go watch the game again and tell me who the biggest difference maker on their offense was.. If you don't answer with Mike Williams, you're lying to yourself.
They would have beat Alabama in 15 without Williams if their Special Teams did their job. Williams is a good WR but he wasn't irreplaceable on that team, 2015 proves that.
Biggest difference maker on offense in that game was Deshaun Watson.
[ Edited by jcs on Mar 19, 2017 at 4:08 PM ]
Mar 19, 2017 at 10:59 PM
- LVJay
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
One note. Prior to thinking this thru, i was definitely not in favor of Williams as our #1 pick . I was a Solomon, or Allen , or foster guy, realizing those guys all were KING KONG at their position in college. And they almost certainly all will excel in the pros . We should be happy with any one of them. No argument from me. I was one of those guys. Also considered Fournette, not Adams, and a couple others in top 10. But when i thot it thru, which guy , if any , could make those around him better, especially 6 guys around him, then i started rethinking that #2 pick. As noted, virtually nobody from 2-6 or 2-8 is going to get his full draft value. Just isn;t the level of IMPACT players as last yr...and being hacked off over getting screwed wth our #2 pick in the draft, I looked at it from different ways. Won't mention the others i thot about but this one, how does he impact the other players on the team....that really surprised me, and in short order thru in my vote for Williams. No offense to fans of the other 2 WRs, but after i re-watched all the U tube i could stand on Williams, i came away very definitely in favor of making him our guy.
Helluva deal if Cleve blows up tho, and afraid he won't make it to #12, takes Watson at #1. There would be some celebrating around here i suspect. Nonetheless, i am counting on Cleve to go Myles...and hoping we go Williams.
That's ultimately what it came down to it for me as well. How much more is Fournette going to give you over Hyde? Hooker/Adams over Ward? Thomas over Armstead/Blair? We have 3 glaring needs where we litetally, have no players there.
1) Edge Rusher, but Myles Garrett is going #1, so 2) LB, and Foster could be the guy and we just met with him, and 3) ZWR, where we litetally have a full vacancy there unless you're banking on Eric Rogers CFL and DeAndre Smelter's knees.
And this position, like Gore and the jumbo packages in Harbaugh's offense, make the whole WCO go outside of QB and his C. We've got a good C now, serviceable QB and now let's complete the WR group with Mike Williams, Pierre Garcon, Jeremy Kerley, Goodwin and Robinson...throw in McDonald, Juice and Hyde into the passing game and look for Hoyer to have a career year.
Drop in Kirk Cousins or Nathan Peterman next year (or the year after).
If No Garrett, then I'm hoping Williams, and if Williams isn't there, then Davis. We haven't had luck in drafting a top notch WR since forever and a day. I hope we go WR if Garrett goes to Browns. The rest of the picks can go all defense for all I care. I just wish we'd finally get our WR, which previous regimes epically failed to do in the past.
Mar 19, 2017 at 11:09 PM
- LVJay
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Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Originally posted by jcs:But they didn't.. and I certainly don't believe they would have in 16 without him, go watch the game again and tell me who the biggest difference maker on their offense was.. If you don't answer with Mike Williams, you're lying to yourself.
They would have beat Alabama in 15 without Williams if their Special Teams did their job. Williams is a good WR but he wasn't irreplaceable on that team, 2015 proves that.
Biggest difference maker on offense in that game was Deshaun Watson.
This is truth for sure. DW was spreading that ball around and tearing Saban / Bama's defense a new hole... because the QB didn't choke in the biggest spotlight, everyone else prospered.
On the same token tho, Clemson doesn't even make it to OT and loses w/out Williams in the game. If you ask Bama's D which WR they would want out of the game, I'm pretty sure they all say Williams. The other guys are good as well, but there's enough film to speculate the benefits for other WRs had much to do with Bama focusing on Williams quite a bit.
Mar 19, 2017 at 11:11 PM
- Zachary
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I love me some Clemson receivers but I'm expecting him to drop a few spots lower than expected and a team like the packers trading up for him and we are all like f*ckkkkk they are gonna be beast with that QB WR combo
Mar 20, 2017 at 12:02 AM
- 49erInTheMidwest
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Originally posted by LVJay:Watson played a damn near flawless game, but majority of his pass were within ten yards of the line of scrimmage. A lot of screens, quick-cutting routes, pick plays, or hitches.. and a lot of them were off the mark but catchable and his WRs made nice grabs. He threw a real nice corner route early on (Probably his best throw of the game). Also had some solid back shoulder throws, but again.. I think his WRs made great plays on all but 1 of them, 1 he threw was perfect. Also had a nice seam ball between three guys. And a couple of nice runs. Mike Williams bailed him out on deep balls, drew 2 huge pass interference calls (One in the endzone or he would have caught it and the corner on him knew it) and made 3 spectacular catches. Drew a safety over the top of him all game and kept the Bama Defense from sitting on the short routes all game, when they tried -- they ran a Fast-Fox play and faked to Williams and both corners flew at him and left Deshaun with a nice open window for a 15 yard gain before the safety could get there. Both played really well, one because he didn't make mistakes (Almost got picked by Reuben Foster, was trying to force to MW and didn't see him) - DW. The other because he made big plays via deeper routes than the other WRs, he wasn't catching slants and ins like Renfrow, and because he kept the Bama defense honest. - MW.
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Originally posted by jcs:But they didn't.. and I certainly don't believe they would have in 16 without him, go watch the game again and tell me who the biggest difference maker on their offense was.. If you don't answer with Mike Williams, you're lying to yourself.
They would have beat Alabama in 15 without Williams if their Special Teams did their job. Williams is a good WR but he wasn't irreplaceable on that team, 2015 proves that.
Biggest difference maker on offense in that game was Deshaun Watson.
This is truth for sure. DW was spreading that ball around and tearing Saban / Bama's defense a new hole... because the QB didn't choke in the biggest spotlight, everyone else prospered.
On the same token tho, Clemson doesn't even make it to OT and loses w/out Williams in the game. If you ask Bama's D which WR they would want out of the game, I'm pretty sure they all say Williams. The other guys are good as well, but there's enough film to speculate the benefits for other WRs had much to do with Bama focusing on Williams quite a bit.
My opinion. Both really showed out, Watson didn't turn the ball over which was most important for me on his part.. Williams showed off what he's did all year and that's add versatility to Clemson's offense.
Mar 20, 2017 at 2:26 PM
- LVJay
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Good points 49erInTheMidwest. I hope we're able to draft at least one of them (preferably MW)...
Mar 27, 2017 at 8:58 AM
- NCommand
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Want. Still want.
Mar 27, 2017 at 11:13 AM
- 49erInTheMidwest
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Originally posted by NCommand:I'm with ya.
Want. Still want.
Mar 28, 2017 at 7:57 AM
- TheXFactor
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Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Originally posted by NCommand:I'm with ya.
Want. Still want.
same, he would be awesome in red and gold!
Mar 29, 2017 at 6:39 AM
- NYniner85
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Mike Williams didn't score any touchdowns in four games against PFF's top DB prospects. https://t.co/8SzlWsHYUz
— Pro Football Focus (@PFF) March 29, 2017