BIG TRADE mock..

Originally posted by MrMrMEanerMister:
I realize this but without the QB it's highly unlikely those defenses are enough to pull it off which is the point in me highlighting the 3 teams I mentioned.

Exactly and we did not win it all. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

You're making my case for me. Justin Smith was a free agent addition. Baalke, myself and most great GM's included are not going to give a top 10 1st round pick for him. Especially when you have holes to fill and need guys from the draft that are young and cheap to build your team around.

This is why Justin made sense and Wilkerson does not. Baalke is not going to give up our #7 overall for Wilkerson.

Why do you think all the best teams do not do this? Broncos, Pats, etc.. It's not sustainable whatsoever and quite frankly not smart.

Every QB is a risk from the draft. I didn't say he was a sure thing or guaranteed star. I said you can't be afraid to make a move for a top prospect and early 1st round QB just because he COULD not work out. That's not why you don't try. It's the most important position in football to try for. I also said that I am not as anxious to skip on yet another top rated, early 1st round prospect out of CAL and the local area only to see him go somewhere else and be a star or succeed.

We do not have the luxury of combining drafts and selecting our own prospects. All we can do is rank the ones we have in front of us and if there should be 1 or 2 top rated 1st round prospects valued where we are slotted than we make our move. So him being slightly less valuable or ranked than last years is not something you should focus on too much. He and Wentz are still the best available and should be considered as such.

If you want this team to win we need to draft a top rated rookie QB and go for the big prize that awards us the best chance for the longest period of time.

"What if"... What if my aunt had a d*** she'd be my uncle.. You can what if all day but the fact is until we solidify the most important position in football we'll just be circumventing the real issue forever.

Wilkerson even had a supporting cast on defense in NY and they are still not even close to a super bowl contender.

a lot of what ifs come with Goff too tho..now wait bc it seems very realistic and about to happen..Kap stays..do you still take Goff in your eyes..? or only if he walks..are you a big Goff fan and think hes going to be great..? I'm trying to understand

so now I literally just got an update the 49ers wont trade Kap unless they are blown away..so now my guess is they don't take a QB..right..? so now would you trade the 7th pick for Wilkerson and the 20th..?

Originally posted by jersey49er:
a lot of what ifs come with Goff too tho..now wait bc it seems very realistic and about to happen..Kap stays..do you still take Goff in your eyes..? or only if he walks..are you a big Goff fan and think hes going to be great..? I'm trying to understand

But if you must what if, do so on the most important position where value is greater.

Risk vs reward.

QB is too important, we so rarely get this chance in the top 10, and on a guy from CAL once again. I'm not prepared to be the fool for another decade by passing on the hometown hero who looks the part only to see a franchise QB once again go elsewhere and win a ring and/or just be successful for 10-15 years.

I've been saying all along before anybody to keep Kaep. His price is low enough that we can hold onto him until a team suffers an injury to their starter or has performance issues at the position. Kaep also can take the early hits while Goff either sits for up to half the season or sooner should Goff impress by preseason.

The way I've always looked at Kaep is a safety net. If we don't get a QB in the draft we use Kaep and go that route with Chip. If we do land Goff in the draft we hold onto Kaep as long as we need him up until Week 8 (trade deadline) at the very latest.

We were offered low compensation (late 3rd) for him which is basically an early 4th. We can easily pull that by week 8 as QB's start dropping like flies to injury or lack of production which is guaranteed to happen one way or the other. So we can do no worse pick wise.

Money wise he is only TRULY on the hook for us for about half of his total contract this season. He has to play the games to get the money or at least show up. So I look at it as if we are only on the hook for about $7mil since we plan to move him no later than the deadline (week 8). By then some team will need him to keep their decent, good, or great record and playoff hopes alive or simply try and save their season.

$7 million is exactly what the Eagles are paying their back up in Daniels so why not roll with Kaep as a safety net and insurance plan until we can afford to finally let him go and be good to move on?

I like Goff a lot. I think he comes from a great school/program where he broke every single school record. Records that include everything Aaron Rodgers was able to accomplish there. Whatever the offensive style, coaches, etc.. it automatically speaks volumes.

We already passed on a good QB from CAL and I'm not prepared to allow ourselves to make that same mistake and possibly be the laughing stock of the NFL for another decade while Goff goes somewhere else and proves doubters wrong.

Goff's tape shows accuracy, hunger, vision, fluidity, desire, and his stats show a guy that almost threw 50 TD's with only about 10 INT's with no O line against much tougher competition than the likes of a guy like Wentz.

Originally posted by MrMrMEanerMister:
I like Goff a lot. I think he comes from a great school/program where he broke every single school record. Records that include everything Aaron Rodgers was able to accomplish there. Whatever the offensive style, coaches, etc.. it automatically speaks volumes.

We already passed on a good QB from CAL and I'm not prepared to allow ourselves to make that same mistake and possibly be the laughing stock of the NFL for another decade while Goff goes somewhere else and proves doubters wrong.

Goff's tape shows accuracy, hunger, vision, fluidity, desire, and his stats show a guy that almost threw 50 TD's with only about 10 INT's with no O line against much tougher competition than the likes of a guy like Wentz.

So you wanted Rodgers instead of Smith..? bc I wont lie I wanted Smith..but everything he was dealt the years he was here made it hard to succeed..i doubt Rodgers would have..dont you think Rodgers is as good as he is bc he sat behind Favre and didn't play..but main thing I'm saying is with Kap supposedly staying I don't think the 49ers take a QB with the 7 pick..and bc they wont my question is would you trade the 7 pick for Wilkerson and the 20th ?

I didn't have the in depth football knowledge concerning the NFL as a whole or college prospects as I do now. At that point in my life I was more focused on college, girls, girls again, racing my car, partying, etc..

I had what analysts told me more so than forming my own opinion or caring to. At the time I just wanted whoever would help the team so I just put it in the hands choosing and hoped for the best. I would have been fine with either or even a great player at another position which was dumb because we needed QB but that's just the train of thought and effort I had back then towards football and the 49ers.

So many variables when considering the whole Smith/Rodgers scenario. It's difficult to gauge. I feel Rodgers may have done slightly to considerably better but could have been great. I wouldn't say he couldn't have when regarding a great QB that's for sure.

I think sitting QB's does help but with the new rules the league has set in place that give the refs more power to control the game and make game changing decisions I feel it lines up perfectly with the business side of things and the wanting to have 1st round QB's in the game for all the reasons I listed. That's why I think it just hasn't happened since. Teams share money so they share decision making and all abide by those rules to make sure everyone is pulling their weight to bring money and interest in.

I still say the smartest thing to do is take Goff.

To make this work let's pretend someone trades up to #1 and offers a zillion future first round picks... selects Goff, then the Browns grab Wentz.

I would then be willing to consider the Wilkerson trade depending on who goes between picks #3 and #6. However I'd try to get a little more compensation so hopefully we could use it to move back up far enough to come back for Ronnie Stanley (#9 with the Bucs) should he go that far to help our QB, Hyde and any WR's we field. We could trade our #20 + # 37 and move up to #9, grab Stanley if he is there, then have a great RT this year and Staley's future replacement to help our QB. Take a QB or two between rounds 2-7 depending on who and what kind of value, then get ready to draft a QB next season. Imight even try and sign Fitz in this scenario to a 1-2yr deal if he can meet us somewhere in the middle.

Originally posted by MrMrMEanerMister:
I didn't have the in depth football knowledge concerning the NFL as a whole or college prospects as I do now. At that point in my life I was more focused on college, girls, girls again, racing my car, partying, etc..

I had what analysts told me more so than forming my own opinion or caring to. At the time I just wanted whoever would help the team so I just put it in the hands choosing and hoped for the best. I would have been fine with either or even a great player at another position which was dumb because we needed QB but that's just the train of thought and effort I had back then towards football and the 49ers.

So many variables when considering the whole Smith/Rodgers scenario. It's difficult to gauge. I feel Rodgers may have done slightly to considerably better but could have been great. I wouldn't say he couldn't have when regarding a great QB that's for sure.

I think sitting QB's does help but with the new rules the league has set in place that give the refs more power to control the game and make game changing decisions I feel it lines up perfectly with the business side of things and the wanting to have 1st round QB's in the game for all the reasons I listed. That's why I think it just hasn't happened since. Teams share money so they share decision making and all abide by those rules to make sure everyone is pulling their weight to bring money and interest in.

I still say the smartest thing to do is take Goff.

To make this work let's pretend someone trades up to #1 and offers a zillion future first round picks... selects Goff, then the Browns grab Wentz.

I would then be willing to consider the Wilkerson trade depending on who goes between picks #3 and #6. However I'd try to get a little more compensation so hopefully we could use it to move back up far enough to come back for Ronnie Stanley (#9 with the Bucs) should he go that far to help our QB, Hyde and any WR's we field. We could trade our #20 + # 37 and move up to #9, grab Stanley if he is there, then have a great RT this year and Staley's future replacement to help our QB. Take a QB or two between rounds 2-7 depending on who and what kind of value, then get ready to draft a QB next season. Imight even try and sign Fitz in this scenario to a 1-2yr deal if he can meet us somewhere in the middle.

the last scenario you suggested would be difficult bc 1 of either Tunsil,Bosa,Ramsey,Buckner, or Myles falls right in the 49ers lap..and to me they are the 5 best players in this draft..it would be tough for any trade then..

Yeah that's true but if it was Wentz I'd prefer we stay put and select him as well.

#7 is the perfect stay put or get compensation spot this year so I prefer not to trade like I said originally but if we did or had to that's what I'd do. Try and at least grab Stanley at #9 if he gets there.

But this was just me going along with your scenario of trading Kaep + #7 for Wilkerson + #20

Originally posted by MrMrMEanerMister:
no.

We need a franchise QB. QB is far more important than a d lineman. We could have Wilk PLUS Justin Smith back in his prime and it wouldn't be better than taking 1 of the 2 only top QB prospects in this draft. If we don't fix our QB situation and get a real QB for 10-15 years we are just spinning our tires and wasting our time as a team and fan base.

We need to CURE this team not cover its symptoms.

I believe the poster said Wilkerson plus the 20th pick for the 7th, not just a straight up trade, which is a good deal, especially if you nail the pick at 20. However, the this is only a good deal if you sign Wilkerson to a long term contract, else you will have to franchise him again next year. There is no guarantee that Goff will become a franchise QB for us, he has the potential, but until that happens-RG III started off like gangbusters but caved, so did a lot of others. Wilkerson is proven at least. Coupled with a LB (in or out) and the front seven will make leaps as well as make the secondary rise up. Then the rest of the draft can be dedicated to offense.

49ers TRADE Colin Kaepernick, ( restructures to go to NY ) the number 7 pick and a 5th round pick to the Jets for Muhammed Wilkerson the number 20 pick and number 51 pick.

I agree IF we went this route (which we won't) then you sign him long term of course. Goff is not proven but a very good prospect and one of very few at this point. Teams need QB. It's no secret it's the most important thing to a team. Especially in a league catering to the offense and passing game in particular.


Just read the rest of my previous posts for more info.

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by MrMrMEanerMister:
no.

We need a franchise QB. QB is far more important than a d lineman. We could have Wilk PLUS Justin Smith back in his prime and it wouldn't be better than taking 1 of the 2 only top QB prospects in this draft. If we don't fix our QB situation and get a real QB for 10-15 years we are just spinning our tires and wasting our time as a team and fan base.

We need to CURE this team not cover its symptoms.

I believe the poster said Wilkerson plus the 20th pick for the 7th, not just a straight up trade, which is a good deal, especially if you nail the pick at 20. However, the this is only a good deal if you sign Wilkerson to a long term contract, else you will have to franchise him again next year. There is no guarantee that Goff will become a franchise QB for us, he has the potential, but until that happens-RG III started off like gangbusters but caved, so did a lot of others. Wilkerson is proven at least. Coupled with a LB (in or out) and the front seven will make leaps as well as make the secondary rise up. Then the rest of the draft can be dedicated to offense.

I couldn't agree anymore..i feel its a risk taking a rookie QB and kind of a joke if you expect a lot out of him fast..with Wilkerson he automatically makes every player and position better..

Originally posted by MrMrMEanerMister:

49ers TRADE Colin Kaepernick, ( restructures to go to NY ) the number 7 pick and a 5th round pick to the Jets for Muhammed Wilkerson the number 20 pick and number 51 pick.

I agree IF we went this route (which we won't) then you sign him long term of course. Goff is not proven but a very good prospect and one of very few at this point. Teams need QB. It's no secret it's the most important thing to a team. Especially in a league catering to the offense and passing game in particular.


Just read the rest of my previous posts for more info.

I understand your point of view very clearly..the fact is we all want whats best and to win..we all don't exactly know what that is..thanks for the great opinions and convo..

I'm just saying Wilkerson was on a team stacked with defenders and where did they go without a real QB?

Originally posted by MrMrMEanerMister:
I'm just saying Wilkerson was on a team stacked with defenders and where did they go without a real QB?

yeah they went nowhere fast..i just think its a little crazy your talking like if the 49ers pass on Goff hes going to be an all pro like Rodgers bc they both went to Cal..i understand your obviously a fan..as am I but Rodgers is a top 10 QB to ever play the game..and another thing..if Goff is taken hes not walking into such a great opportunity considering the 49ers are not the best..so he will probably struggle and the defense will carry him..

D Line doesn't control the game otherwise the Texans would be serious Super Bowl contenders every season.

- Goff comes from a good college program.
- Faced top competition.
- Had very little O Line help
- Had nearly 50 TD's in one season with only 13 INT's
- Throwing Percentage has ONLY increased every year (60.3% in '13 ---- 62.1% in '14 ---- 64.5% in '15)
- Passing Yards has ONLY increased every year (3508 yards in '13 ---- 3973 yards in '14 ---- 4719 yards in '15)
- Average yards per play has ONLY increased ever year (6.6yds in '13 ---- 7.8yds in '14 ---- 8.9yds in '15)
- TD's have ONLY increased every year (18td's in '13 ---- 35td's in '14 ---- 43td's in '15)
- Passer Rating has ONLY increased every year (123.2 in '13 ---- 147.6 in '14 ---- 161.3 in '15)
- INT's STAY hovering at an average of 10 per year (10 int's in '13 ---- 7 int's in '14 ---- 13 int's in '15)
- Ideal height at 6'4
- Is a #2 Punter in emergency scenario (avg's over 40yds per punt ---- Can punt up to 50 yds)
- Is another local kid like Rodgers in '05 (From Novato, CA and I'd rather select him than pass on another top prospect CAL kid)


Prospects like him turn franchises around. We draft him and grab a couple free agents like Jahri Evans and Stefen Wisniewski to help keep him safe. Grab a dependable WR like Anquan Boldin and Marques Colston for redzone help. Of course we only need to target these kind of free agents if we don't pick up enough help for him in the draft.