Ivanm05's V-Day Mock Plan to Fall in Love With

Ivan...like your draft a lot. Love going two top DL with the first two picks. Not so crazy about your FA's:

- Doesn't make good sense to keep a 41-yr old K counting the better part of $4M against the cap. Some excellent college K's coming out, I'd draft one of 'em.

- You'd keep Boone (agree with that), AD's returning and you'd spend considerable $$ on Osemele. He's a good player, but after what Staley had to say about Trenton Brown, I think we need better depth. It's plausible Brown can win the RT job, in which case they'd likely kick AD inside to play RG. Sign a reliable vet or two for better quality depth.

- Don't see why you'd sign Winston...he's nowhere near the top10-15 OT's. If I'm signing an OT, it'd be someone like Barksdale. Instead, I'd draft a couple of college studs who can play multiple positions and groom them for the future.

- I like Josh Norman, but he'll be expensive. I'd rather put my money on a couple of vet DL who'll upgrade that position group while Buckner and Butler learn. The stronger the DL gets, the more it benefits the pass rushers and secondary. And...Cedric Thornton's not the answer. Not with the likes of Malik Jackson, Olivier Vernon & Co. likely being available.

- RG III. No thanks. I'd rather draft Dak Prescott if Kap sticks around...if not I'd still draft him, but sign a different vet, maybe Case Keenum or Chase Daniel.

I will give you an A- for effort, but want to play devils advocate on a few of your thought processes.

Nick Bellore- He is signed and is a special team ace that made the pro bowl in 2014. Makes no sense to cut, trying to improve not go backwards
Wilhoite- He is a RFA so technically the team cannot cut him, if the team does not sign him to a RFA tender he becomes a free agent, so he is not cut, cutting is when one takes a cap hit because they are under contract
Corey Lemonoir- While he has underperformed, his contract amount is small, and one cannot cut Brooks, Lemonoir and lose Aldon Smith. Pass rush is needed. They need to cut Brooks and build a fire under Lemonoir.
Dawson- the 49ers will be horrible next season. Why pay a 40 plus year old kicker 4 million??? draft a kicker for the future and lower cap number.

Draft- No way they take two DL in rounds 1 and 2 after going DL first round last year.

Originally posted by ivanm05:
Yeah all the big names are going to be tagged. That's what I told everyone last time. Buckner is a Defensive End and Butler is a Defensive Tackle. How is that overkill? You would have a starting rotation of Buckner, Butler and Armstead. With Williams and Dial rotating in. We have zero depth a long the dline. Outside of Dial and maybe TJE, who do you really have. Tank is moving to OLB.

And I'm sorry but please go down this list and tell me where Nassib is:
http://www.drafttek.com/2016-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-34-Outside-LBs-2016-Draft.asp

here's some more on nassib: " It would benefit Nassib if he spends his free time working some linebacker skills. If he's unable to add bulk, he'll be looking at a potential move to outside linebacker in a 3-4 alignment."

I'm not being unrealistic for thinking this.

And I'm not getting bent out of shape. I just think it's funny.

And as far as loading up on the dline and oline. With chip's offense you guys do realize the defense is going to be on the field way, way more. Like twice as much as last season. We need a deeper rotation to keep the defense durable and fresh, let alone efficient. And our O-line was so atrocious last year, that by the end of the year our 7th round pick was our bright spot. I'm sorry but I'll take as many quality offensive linemen as I can and let Chip figure out who stays and who goes.

That list is trash...it has Scooby Wright and Kevin Dodd as OLB lol. Nassib is a 4-3 DE that's where he fits not a 3-4 OLB.

Butler plays all over the line and is similar to Wilk IMO. I don't see the point in having our first two picks be DL it's a 3 man front and your taking snaps away from all the rookies which isn't good....one or the other Butler or Buckner would be great!

Actually your wrong about being on the field twice as much...someone broke it down and based off all our defensive snaps last year vs Philly's it worked out to 2.6 more snaps a game.

So you want to take a s**t ton of OL just to have too cut some of them or lose them on the practice squad when we could have pick another position to develop? That makes ZERO sense.

Also as far as your wacky FA goes, I get it your just compensation for the last mock. I don't think you have to go from one extreme to the other. I don't see us landing top FAs (especially on defense) If we can get two of the names you mentioned I will be pumped....and I'm not gonna go into RG3

regardless it's your mock you can do whatever you want

Originally posted by ivanm05:
Well I didn't have them in my first one either and everyone thought I should have had a much better haul with our salary cap. And I'm sorry but I would like to think that if we're using up our salary cap that it would be for really good players not just adding decent players for the sake of filling up the cap. That was the idea behind adding Norman and Jeffrey.

Thats why I had minimal siginings with my other mock. But that wasn't realistic either.

Andf there's nothing wrong with Jackson but everyone wants him and I don't see how he's better than anything can address in the draft. Besides, Broncos are already in talks to resign him.

He's a very good pass rushing DE which is something Dial lacks big time.

As far as the Broncos resigning him this is what has been reported:

The Broncos have not done the same with fellow free agent Brock Osweiler, a tactic taken "out of respect" for Peyton Manning, per Klis. Klis does clarify that "not enough progress has been made" at this point to prevent Jackson from testing the open market, where the 26-year-old could strike it filthy rich. Klis expects the Broncos to use the franchise tag on free agent OLB Von Miller.

He'd be dumb to not test FA.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
That list is trash...it has Scooby Wright and Kevin Dodd as OLB lol. Nassib is a 4-3 DE that's where he fits not a 3-4 OLB.

Butler plays all over the line and is similar to Wilk IMO. I don't see the point in having our first two picks be DL it's a 3 man front and your taking snaps away from all the rookies which isn't good....one or the other Butler or Buckner would be great!

Actually your wrong about being on the field twice as much...someone broke it down and based off all our defensive snaps last year vs Philly's it worked out to 2.6 more snaps a game.

So you want to take a s**t ton of OL just to have too cut some of them or lose them on the practice squad when we could have pick another position to develop? That makes ZERO sense.

Also as far as your wacky FA goes, I get it your just compensation for the last mock. I don't think you have to go from one extreme to the other. I don't see us landing top FAs (especially on defense) If we can get two of the names you mentioned I will be pumped....and I'm not gonna go into RG3

regardless it's your mock you can do whatever you want

When I look at Nassib. I see his size. His frame. His wingspan. His athleticism. And I see an OLB. 6-7, 272. If you remember, Aldon Smith too was projected as a 4-3 End coming out of MIssouri. I'm not saying Nassib is Smith by any stretch of the imagination but his measurables are intriguing for a 3-4 OLB. But it's all a matter of opinion of course. He may very well flourish as a 4-3 end. But i'm not crazy for thinking he could be a 3-4 OLB.

And heres the profile on Aldon coming out: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/aldon-smith?id=2495487

With respect to Butler and Buckner. I have no problem taking two high picks on D-line. Right behind O-line it's our weakest spot. We had to blitz and manipulate pressure just to get a pass rush. I don't know about you but I want to go back to the days with Fangio when all we had to do was rush three to get pressure on the QB. Buckner and Butler would be a great start towards doing that. And when you say they would be taking away time from rookies... I don't feel that. I feel like they would be taking a decent chunk of the snaps, peppering in Williams and Dial.

And where do you have me taking a s**t ton of linemen. I only have us drafting one in Drango and picking two up in Free Agency, while resigning Boone. Is that a s**t ton? I think that sounds just about fair. Make it a competition for gods sake. Let the best rotation make it. And if by consequence we have to cut two of our late OL draft picks from last year, so be it. I don't see the big issue.

And I concur with you on FA.. If we can sign one really good player, or two quality guys, alright. But even then, I don't see it. I had us picking up low radar guys that have some upside in my last mock and everyone was disappointed. But in reality, most of Baalke's FA signings have been in that category, whether they pan out or not.

With respects to RGIII, I think he's been given a bad rep. I think a lot of that had to do with his owner babying him and protecting him. But lets not forget the player that he was/still could be. If youre looking at QB's that would be ideal for chips system its RG3 A, and Colin Kaepernick B. I think he's a lot more accurate than Kap. This guy is a Heisman Winning, 2nd overall pick QB that took his team to the playoffs when he was healthy. When it comes to the locker room stuff, i think he's matured and learned from sitting out a year. I would like to see what he would look like in Chip's system. He wouldn't be expensive either.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Ivan...like your draft a lot. Love going two top DL with the first two picks. Not so crazy about your FA's:

- Doesn't make good sense to keep a 41-yr old K counting the better part of $4M against the cap. Some excellent college K's coming out, I'd draft one of 'em.

- You'd keep Boone (agree with that), AD's returning and you'd spend considerable $$ on Osemele. He's a good player, but after what Staley had to say about Trenton Brown, I think we need better depth. It's plausible Brown can win the RT job, in which case they'd likely kick AD inside to play RG. Sign a reliable vet or two for better quality depth.

- Don't see why you'd sign Winston...he's nowhere near the top10-15 OT's. If I'm signing an OT, it'd be someone like Barksdale. Instead, I'd draft a couple of college studs who can play multiple positions and groom them for the future.

- I like Josh Norman, but he'll be expensive. I'd rather put my money on a couple of vet DL who'll upgrade that position group while Buckner and Butler learn. The stronger the DL gets, the more it benefits the pass rushers and secondary. And...Cedric Thornton's not the answer. Not with the likes of Malik Jackson, Olivier Vernon & Co. likely being available.

- RG III. No thanks. I'd rather draft Dak Prescott if Kap sticks around...if not I'd still draft him, but sign a different vet, maybe Case Keenum or Chase Daniel.

Thanks, Corva. Yeah I just want to get back to having a nasty front seven. I think going DL with at least one of our first two picks is the way to go.

My thinking with Dawson is that the biggest thing for this team is to win games and reestablish a winning culture. Kicking has become such an important part of the game, that I feel having a surefire kicker is a tremendous asset. With so many games being decided on 3 points or less, I think 4 mil isn't too much for a dependable kicker.

And Winston, my idea with him would just be for veteran depth. Just as a backup. Sort of what Pears was suppose to be for us this year.

Originally posted by ivanm05:
Yeah all the big names are going to be tagged. That's what I told everyone last time. Buckner is a Defensive End and Butler is a Defensive Tackle. How is that overkill? You would have a starting rotation of Buckner, Butler and Armstead. With Williams and Dial rotating in. We have zero depth a long the dline. Outside of Dial and maybe TJE, who do you really have. Tank is moving to OLB.

And I'm sorry but please go down this list and tell me where Nassib is:
http://www.drafttek.com/2016-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-34-Outside-LBs-2016-Draft.asp

here's some more on nassib: " It would benefit Nassib if he spends his free time working some linebacker skills. If he's unable to add bulk, he'll be looking at a potential move to outside linebacker in a 3-4 alignment."

I'm not being unrealistic for thinking this.

And I'm not getting bent out of shape. I just think it's funny.

And as far as loading up on the dline and oline. With chip's offense you guys do realize the defense is going to be on the field way, way more. Like twice as much as last season. We need a deeper rotation to keep the defense durable and fresh, let alone efficient. And our O-line was so atrocious last year, that by the end of the year our 7th round pick was our bright spot. I'm sorry but I'll take as many quality offensive linemen as I can and let Chip figure out who stays and who goes.

I like quality in the trenches but with a re-signed Ian Williams, drafted Buckner and available Dial as well as Armstead a pick for another DT in round 2 is a waste of resources. TJE is a solid backup as well (but not more).
In your scenario, Williams will man the Nose, AA at LDE, Dial/Buckner at RDE. Butler would be a rotational guy, especially for Williams or AA I think. Now, assuming we will play a lot in nickel formation when we presumably pull a d-lineman, your move becomes waste of resources times waste of resources.

Wait, you even want to add Cedric Thornton to the mix???

Originally posted by communist:
I like quality in the trenches but with a re-signed Ian Williams, drafted Buckner and available Dial as well as Armstead a pick for another DT in round 2 is a waste of resources. TJE is a solid backup as well (but not more).
In your scenario, Williams will man the Nose, AA at LDE, Dial/Buckner at RDE. Butler would be a rotational guy, especially for Williams or AA I think. Now, assuming we will play a lot in nickel formation when we presumably pull a d-lineman, your move becomes waste of resources times waste of resources.

Wait, you even want to add Cedric Thornton to the mix???

I would take Thornton over TJE. And I like Williams. But also for a certain price. I Have Butler manning the nose with Williams rotating in. Well at least thats how it would eventually pan out. Maybe not initially because Butler's a rookie. Like I said I like Williams but I'm not sure i would pay him an extensive amount of money. He's serviceable but nothing outstanding.

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Originally posted by communist:
I like quality in the trenches but with a re-signed Ian Williams, drafted Buckner and available Dial as well as Armstead a pick for another DT in round 2 is a waste of resources. TJE is a solid backup as well (but not more).
In your scenario, Williams will man the Nose, AA at LDE, Dial/Buckner at RDE. Butler would be a rotational guy, especially for Williams or AA I think. Now, assuming we will play a lot in nickel formation when we presumably pull a d-lineman, your move becomes waste of resources times waste of resources.

Wait, you even want to add Cedric Thornton to the mix???

I would take Thornton over TJE. And I like Williams. But also for a certain price. I Have Butler manning the nose with Williams rotating in. Well at least thats how it would eventually pan out. Maybe not initially because Butler's a rookie. Like I said I like Williams but I'm not sure i would pay him an extensive amount of money. He's serviceable but nothing outstanding.

Williams is quite solid if healthy. If you don't believe me, ask our on-board-experts. However, if you retain him, you retain him at any cost. We don't need a high-class backup for him, especially if TJE is also available. I'd rather keep Dorsey for rotation with Williams and any RDE.

At the end of the day, we still have to get a good ILB (not sure if Cravens is the answer), another WR (unless you really trust an aging Boldin, an injured Smelter, Ellington and Patton, don't care about White), RB and QB could also be picked earlier than some ppl think.

IF we lose Williams and don't add any solid d-liner via FA, then I will agree with you on double-dip, especially if we are talking about a NT and a RDE, respectively.

Originally posted by ivanm05:

When I look at Nassib. I see his size. His frame. His wingspan. His athleticism. And I see an OLB. 6-7, 272. If you remember, Aldon Smith too was projected as a 4-3 End coming out of MIssouri. I'm not saying Nassib is Smith by any stretch of the imagination but his measurables are intriguing for a 3-4 OLB. But it's all a matter of opinion of course. He may very well flourish as a 4-3 end. But i'm not crazy for thinking he could be a 3-4 OLB.

And heres the profile on Aldon coming out: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/aldon-smith?id=2495487

With respect to Butler and Buckner. I have no problem taking two high picks on D-line. Right behind O-line it's our weakest spot. We had to blitz and manipulate pressure just to get a pass rush. I don't know about you but I want to go back to the days with Fangio when all we had to do was rush three to get pressure on the QB. Buckner and Butler would be a great start towards doing that. And when you say they would be taking away time from rookies... I don't feel that. I feel like they would be taking a decent chunk of the snaps, peppering in Williams and Dial.

And where do you have me taking a s**t ton of linemen. I only have us drafting one in Drango and picking two up in Free Agency, while resigning Boone. Is that a s**t ton? I think that sounds just about fair. Make it a competition for gods sake. Let the best rotation make it. And if by consequence we have to cut two of our late OL draft picks from last year, so be it. I don't see the big issue.

And I concur with you on FA.. If we can sign one really good player, or two quality guys, alright. But even then, I don't see it. I had us picking up low radar guys that have some upside in my last mock and everyone was disappointed. But in reality, most of Baalke's FA signings have been in that category, whether they pan out or not.

With respects to RGIII, I think he's been given a bad rep. I think a lot of that had to do with his owner babying him and protecting him. But lets not forget the player that he was/still could be. If youre looking at QB's that would be ideal for chips system its RG3 A, and Colin Kaepernick B. I think he's a lot more accurate than Kap. This guy is a Heisman Winning, 2nd overall pick QB that took his team to the playoffs when he was healthy. When it comes to the locker room stuff, i think he's matured and learned from sitting out a year. I would like to see what he would look like in Chip's system. He wouldn't be expensive either.

Can nassib roll out into coverage? He's never had to do that at pen st. I just don't see it and would rather have a more complete OLB. He looks like a 4-3 DE and that's where he's most comfortable.

Where is Buckner and butler playing? We have 3 spots on the DL most of the time...when does AA Williams get on the field? I don't want any of our top picks from the past two drafts sitting the bench and that will happen based on who you've drafted.

You have 13 OL on the team and we will only have 8 on the active roster...who's inactive and who's pratice squad? It's too much IMO not enough roster spots.

RG3 is the same thing as Kap but is injury prone it's another headache waiting to happen no thank you.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ivanm05:

Originally posted by communist:
I like quality in the trenches but with a re-signed Ian Williams, drafted Buckner and available Dial as well as Armstead a pick for another DT in round 2 is a waste of resources. TJE is a solid backup as well (but not more).
In your scenario, Williams will man the Nose, AA at LDE, Dial/Buckner at RDE. Butler would be a rotational guy, especially for Williams or AA I think. Now, assuming we will play a lot in nickel formation when we presumably pull a d-lineman, your move becomes waste of resources times waste of resources.

Wait, you even want to add Cedric Thornton to the mix???

I would take Thornton over TJE. And I like Williams. But also for a certain price. I Have Butler manning the nose with Williams rotating in. Well at least thats how it would eventually pan out. Maybe not initially because Butler's a rookie. Like I said I like Williams but I'm not sure i would pay him an extensive amount of money. He's serviceable but nothing outstanding.

Williams is quite solid if healthy. If you don't believe me, ask our on-board-experts. However, if you retain him, you retain him at any cost. We don't need a high-class backup for him, especially if TJE is also available. I'd rather keep Dorsey for rotation with Williams and any RDE.

At the end of the day, we still have to get a good ILB (not sure if Cravens is the answer), another WR (unless you really trust an aging Boldin, an injured Smelter, Ellington and Patton, don't care about White), RB and QB could also be picked earlier than some ppl think.

IF we lose Williams and don't add any solid d-liner via FA, then I will agree with you on double-dip, especially if we are talking about a NT and a RDE, respectively.

Yeah I know he's solid, but I would prefer just a nasty Nose that disrupts the pocket for the QB and is aggressive against the run. So I would definitely trade the solid NT for the nasty, disrupt one.. even if it means a 2nd round pick. And yes I agree with you on ILB. I do like cravens a lot though. I had him in my last mock as an ILB.

And as far as WR, If i had to predict, I think Baalke and Chip are going Treadwell with their first pick. Thats my gut feeling.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Can nassib roll out into coverage? He's never had to do that at pen st. I just don't see it and would rather have a more complete OLB. He looks like a 4-3 DE and that's where he's most comfortable.

Where is Buckner and butler playing? We have 3 spots on the DL most of the time...when does AA Williams get on the field? I don't want any of our top picks from the past two drafts sitting the bench and that will happen based on who you've drafted.

You have 13 OL on the team and we will only have 8 on the active roster...who's inactive and who's pratice squad? It's too much IMO not enough roster spots.

RG3 is the same thing as Kap but is injury prone it's another headache waiting to happen no thank you.

I would have Buckner and Armstead at the ends with Butler at the nose. Williams would be a rotational/backup.

And yeah that's 13 O-line men, but thats going into training camp. Yes, there'll be OL being cut... and the best players will make the rotation.

Originally posted by ivanm05:
Yeah I know he's solid, but I would prefer just a nasty Nose that disrupts the pocket for the QB and is aggressive against the run. So I would definitely trade the solid NT for the nasty, disrupt one.. even if it means a 2nd round pick. And yes I agree with you on ILB. I do like cravens a lot though. I had him in my last mock as an ILB.

And as far as WR, If i had to predict, I think Baalke and Chip are going Treadwell with their first pick. Thats my gut feeling.

I'd prefer a proven rock-solid NT at any day in the year

Originally posted by communist:
I'd prefer a proven rock-solid NT at any day in the year

Yeah haha I hear you. I know we have Dorsey too, but I wonder when he'll be back ready to go from his injury.

Originally posted by ivanm05:

I would have Buckner and Armstead at the ends with Butler at the nose. Williams would be a rotational/backup.

And yeah that's 13 O-line men, but thats going into training camp. Yes, there'll be OL being cut... and the best players will make the rotation.

Williams isn't a backup NT he's one of the best in the game man! I think butler can play 3-4 DE like Wilk...I think Buckner and butler are studs but both just doesn't do it for me with AA and Williams both starters.

Rather go in a different direction in the 1st or 2nd just my two cents.

So basically your wasting picks on OL or money in FA on possible OL getting cut? Spend that money an draft picks on players that will actually play...who's your starting OL and who you keeping?

So basically your doing this JUST for the guard position...drafting Drango, paying big cash for Osmele and Boone plus have Thomas and tiller?? That's way too much IMO.

Your gonna have your five starters (I'm guessing) Staley, Osmele, Kilgore , Boone, Davis

Who left when you have 8 active??