The "drafting a QB late" folly.

Originally posted by tatdwolf49:

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Want tha Alabama quarterback Jake Coker in tha 5th or 6th round think after everything he shown he could be a real gem ...

We can just wait to sign him as an UDFA

Thats IF he would wanna sign with us ...

Qb starving team that runs a qb friendly system, we should be favorites for any undrafted qb. Just have to have our sights on the one chip really wants and go all out

The first round is a crap shoot also. I think one of the overlooked factors of drafting a qb is where he is drafted and the system and team he is put in. If lets say a qb goes to a team like last years niners, even some of the successful ones may have faltered. Wilson is okay, but he is backed by a tremendous D which has given him time to develop and not be forced.

A good example was Plunket. Who knows how some of those other QBs might have done with the right team. Remember Elvis Grbac. He did pretty good with the niners ad did not want to wait, he wanted his moment now, but faltered when he left. Alex Smith sucked big time, but resurected into a decent QB when he got Harbaugh and then Reid. What if he went to QB hell Cleveland?

Some people don't have then talent, but you got to wonder for some if they would have been successful if they went elsewhere. Foles name was mentioned, but he has somewhat disappear after leaving the Eagles and Chip. One thing you cannot measure is the it factor, which is hard to measure. I believe Kelly will go after a QB if they are right for the niners at position 7, if he feels certain players are not worth it and does not take one, the fans should not be surprised. Of course some will feel butt hurt cause the niners did not listen to them.

How far back are you going? Joes not on list

Tony Romo

Originally posted by Butter:

Originally posted by Rascal:
Great post! I said it from day one, if we are serious about drafting the next franchise QB, we cannot afford to mess around but to take a legit prospect in the 1st. I am even reluctant about the 2nd if I am being honest simply because I don't like the idea of settling. Kap was a 2nd rounder, I just don't want any excuse if the guy turns out to be trash. Let's put our best foot forward and go for the guy we want.

That would make a lot of sense if this team had any semblance of an oline. General consensus from many Zone fans is that the Oline needs at least 3 starters added to this roster. I think many of us hope they fill some of those holes in FA, but this roster needs to fill some holes with premier picks before they target QB in a weak class.

It makes sense period. There is never a time where it doesn't make sense. When you can get a franchise QB, you don't say, wait until we have an O-line or a defense, or good coaching, etc. Often times when you have one or two of those things, you tend not to have a shot at a franchise QB and you are stuck somewhere between playoff participant, but never making a serious run and mediocrity. Regardless of what people may feel about Wentz, Lynch, or Goff, they re all legit first round QBs. I don't care what Kelly thinks he can do with Colin Kaepernick. For any guy to look that bad five years into his career, gives me no confidence at all in his abilities to turn it around. Can he be good again? Perhaps. But I am not betting on it. I can't see any other way to go besides QB at number 7 overall.

Chip Kelly has done some nice things with Sam Bradford and Nick Foles and if you are goal is to hover around 9-7/11-5 a maybe get a playoff win or two over the next five years, have at it.

Originally posted by jedediahyork:

The same can be said about finding a "franchise" QB. That's all it really is when drafting a QB. Vince Young and JaMarcus Russel are two very recent picks that come to mind.

At least by building a decent team through the draft you have a shot every year at winning, even with a serviceable QB. A serviceable QB can be found in FA, or via trade... you're not limited to rolling the dice in the draft, especially in weak draft classes.

I have to agree with you on this. If you have a good o line, running, good defense, and good coaches you can win a decent QB. I've seen that formula work too many times for it to be false...

I wouldn't be upset if we used a 3rd rounder on a QB, it makes sense to have talent at QB, because after Steve got hurt against the Cards back in the day, we had to wait forever for Garcia to settle into his role, and plugged in guys like Rick Mirer and Steve Stenstrom , HOPING they would work out , Christ we were even trying to get Jeff Hostetler out of retirement at one point ...we cant go back to a bare cupboard again , and struggle mightily because of it

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jedediahyork:
The same can be said about finding a "franchise" QB. That's all it really is when drafting a QB.

At least by building a decent team through the draft you have a shot every year at winning, even with a serviceable QB. A serviceable QB can be found in FA, or via trade... you're not limited to rolling the dice in the draft, especially in weak draft classes.

But you really don't. Without a QB you're basically just spinning your wheels. Look at the Rams and Texans. Its a QB driven league, either you have "the guy" or you are looking for him. Because otherwise you just hope that everything works out just right so you can take a couple swings at the playoffs before you have to tear the team apart.

Meanwhile teams like New England, Pittsburgh and Green Bay have had massive roster turnover but always have that puncher's chance at winning it all due to their exceptional quarterbacks.

The Texans just went to the playoffs with 3 different QBs in one season. I wouldn't consider any of them "serviceable." Maybe Hoyer, but he was barely serviceable with the Browns. A serviceable guy is a guy that's going to play a whole season and put up decent numbers. Probably in the 15-25 rank, most likely a "game manager." Maybe 3500 yards or so, 20 or more TDs, try to limit INTs.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by tatdwolf49:

This is like tha 05 draft when we had tha 1st pick there is no clear #1 type QB to take so take a pass rusher and a QB later in tha 3rd and Coker in tha 6th

No there was, we just took the wrong one

Who's to say Aaron Rodgers Would have turn into what he did if we picked him stop crying over who we didn't pick teams miss out on great players every year ....

Originally posted by tatdwolf49:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
This is like tha 05 draft when we had tha 1st pick there is no clear #1 type QB to take so take a pass rusher and a QB later in tha 3rd and Coker in tha 6th

No there was, we just took the wrong one

Who's to say Aaron Rodgers Would have turn into what he did if we picked him stop crying over who we didn't pick teams miss out on great players every year ....

This is my point about QBs, where they land. Do they have the supporting staff. Meaning not only players, but QB coach and oc. Does the system fit him. Walsh took many players who ere marginal like Virgil Carter and made them prosper. I just see this QB class as not as talented as warrant the position you choose and would not want to reach. I will respect Kelly and Baalke though if they go after a QB, but don't see it happening with Goff, Wentz maybe, but that is to soon form him. Though Cleveland will provide otherwise.

With all the people advocating we wait until the late rounds yet again, I feel that this great thread needs to be bumped.

And I am sure people want to add Dak Prescott to the list, but I personally would like to see him do it for more than 1 season before he is acknowledged as a good QB drafted late.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

With all the people advocating we wait until the late rounds yet again, I feel that this great thread needs to be bumped.

And I am sure people want to add Dak Prescott to the list, but I personally would like to see him do it for more than 1 season before he is acknowledged as a good QB drafted late.

I'd like to see him without that offensive line, but that isn't going to happen. He's going to put up good stats for a long time with the talent surrounding him. Doesn't really matter if he's good or just average/below average - his stats will be good and if the defense holds up, they'll keep winning.

Unfortunately, we're in a position to make a good QB look bad or average right now. Kaepernick is playing alright, but just doesn't have anyone around him other than Hyde. Staley is no longer a pro bowler and the rest of the offensive line and all he receivers are trash.

Originally posted by jedediahyork:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jedediahyork:

The same can be said about finding a "franchise" QB. That's all it really is when drafting a QB.

At least by building a decent team through the draft you have a shot every year at winning, even with a serviceable QB. A serviceable QB can be found in FA, or via trade... you're not limited to rolling the dice in the draft, especially in weak draft classes.

But you really don't. Without a QB you're basically just spinning your wheels. Look at the Rams and Texans. Its a QB driven league, either you have "the guy" or you are looking for him. Because otherwise you just hope that everything works out just right so you can take a couple swings at the playoffs before you have to tear the team apart.

Meanwhile teams like New England, Pittsburgh and Green Bay have had massive roster turnover but always have that puncher's chance at winning it all due to their exceptional quarterbacks.

The Texans just went to the playoffs with 3 different QBs in one season. I wouldn't consider any of them "serviceable." Maybe Hoyer, but he was barely serviceable with the Browns. A serviceable guy is a guy that's going to play a whole season and put up decent numbers. Probably in the 15-25 rank, most likely a "game manager." Maybe 3500 yards or so, 20 or more TDs, try to limit INTs.

Originally posted by jedediahyork:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jedediahyork:

The same can be said about finding a "franchise" QB. That's all it really is when drafting a QB.

At least by building a decent team through the draft you have a shot every year at winning, even with a serviceable QB. A serviceable QB can be found in FA, or via trade... you're not limited to rolling the dice in the draft, especially in weak draft classes.

But you really don't. Without a QB you're basically just spinning your wheels. Look at the Rams and Texans. Its a QB driven league, either you have "the guy" or you are looking for him. Because otherwise you just hope that everything works out just right so you can take a couple swings at the playoffs before you have to tear the team apart.

Meanwhile teams like New England, Pittsburgh and Green Bay have had massive roster turnover but always have that puncher's chance at winning it all due to their exceptional quarterbacks.

The Texans just went to the playoffs with 3 different QBs in one season. I wouldn't consider any of them "serviceable." Maybe Hoyer, but he was barely serviceable with the Browns. A serviceable guy is a guy that's going to play a whole season and put up decent numbers. Probably in the 15-25 rank, most likely a "game manager." Maybe 3500 yards or so, 20 or more TDs, try to limit INTs.

Sounds like Kap this year with less talent.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Unfortunately, we're in a position to make a good QB look bad or average right now. Kaepernick is playing alright, but just doesn't have anyone around him other than Hyde. Staley is no longer a pro bowler and the rest of the offensive line and all he receivers are trash.

I dont agree that the O line is trash. Quite the opposite. I think it is young and developing although we need to get a better center to compete with Kilgore. The receivers may or may not be trash. Unless they do a Crabtree or we bring in replacement qb's it is hard to be sure where the problem is.