Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson - Legit alternative to Jared Goff in 2017?

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Well I guess by your rules then, David Carr didn't sit and learn, OK moving on.

I mean you brought up a comparison that really didn't compare to Rogers situation (like we brought up) at all...big difference in letting a rookie sit for a couple years before he takes the team over vs starting day one for 5 years then becoming a backup

Originally posted by genus49:
Matt Ryan sucks?

We would've won at least 2 superbowls with Matt Ryan in the last 5 season IMO. Matt Ryan may not be Tom Brady but he's far from sucking.

I don't agree with that at all. I think he's a choker whose stats got inflated by having one of the best supporting casts in the history of football.

I think Andy Dalton is a bad-to-mediocre QB, but I'd take him over Matt Ryan (barely).

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by genus49:

Matt Ryan sucks?

We would've won at least 2 superbowls with Matt Ryan in the last 5 season IMO. Matt Ryan may not be Tom Brady but he's far from sucking.

I don't agree with that at all. I think he's a choker whose stats got inflated by having one of the best supporting casts in the history of football.

I think Andy Dalton is a bad-to-mediocre QB, but I'd take him over Matt Ryan (barely).

Disagree...I think Matt Ryan is a fine QB. He's had no defense or OL for most of his career and he's been very accurate despite that line.

http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2014/8/2/5948513/how-good-is-matt-ryans-accuracy

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Disagree...I think Matt Ryan is a fine QB. He's had no defense or OL for most of his career and he's been very accurate despite that line.

http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2014/8/2/5948513/how-good-is-matt-ryans-accuracy

His OL provided a very good running game for most of his career.

And when you have Roddy White (in his prime), Julio Jones and Tony Gonzales to throw to, you're going to look a hell of a lot better than you really are. He's been up there with Steve Young, Kurt Warner & Peyton Manning for most spoiled QBs of all time.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

His OL provided a very good running game for most of his career.

And when you have Roddy White (in his prime), Julio Jones and Tony Gonzales to throw to, you're going to look a hell of a lot better than you really are. He's been up there with Steve Young, Kurt Warner & Peyton Manning for most spoiled QBs of all time.

No doubt it helps having some playmakers to throw too but he still has to get the ball to them accurately and he's been very good at that.

They've been okay at running the ball but horrible at pass blocking and that defense has been trash. He's much better than you give him credit for. But it's your opionion all good

If a qb can't stay healthy he's no good. I strongly question whether a 6'2 210 pound scrambling qb can take the NFL beating. I know he throws the ball in college but NFL offenses and defenses are alot more complex. He's going to take off more and every time he does it's a ticking time bomb. Vick couldn't stay healthy even as a vet who learned to hang in the pocket, Griffen hasn't. The track record is not very great for guys of his size and skill set. Wilson is a little jitterbug and his pocket elusiveness spares him. He'll be a top 3 pick and we should be in the 7-9 range so I really don't think we'll have the option of taking him but I'd pass.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
If a qb can't stay healthy he's no good. I strongly question whether a 6'2 210 pound scrambling qb can take the NFL beating. I know he throws the ball in college but NFL offenses and defenses are alot more complex. He's going to take off more and every time he does it's a ticking time bomb. Vick couldn't stay healthy even as a vet who learned to hang in the pocket, Griffen hasn't. The track record is not very great for guys of his size and skill set. Wilson is a little jitterbug and his pocket elusiveness spares him. He'll be a top 3 pick and we should be in the 7-9 range so I really don't think we'll have the option of taking him but I'd pass.

Why can't he play like Wilson? you act like that's all he did last year was take off out of the pocket, but a lot of those run plays (especially the title game) were designed runs and when he did scramble he was looking down field to throw. He wasn't taking stupid hits like RG3 always does either.

Mariota played last year at 215 at 6-4 which makes him thinner than a 6-2 210 Watson IMHO....I don't see why Watson couldn't throw on a couple more lbs with a full NFL off season anyway. If we have a chance at getting him you don't pass it up no way. In chip's system he's be a monster.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
If a qb can't stay healthy he's no good. I strongly question whether a 6'2 210 pound scrambling qb can take the NFL beating. I know he throws the ball in college but NFL offenses and defenses are alot more complex. He's going to take off more and every time he does it's a ticking time bomb. Vick couldn't stay healthy even as a vet who learned to hang in the pocket, Griffen hasn't. The track record is not very great for guys of his size and skill set. Wilson is a little jitterbug and his pocket elusiveness spares him. He'll be a top 3 pick and we should be in the 7-9 range so I really don't think we'll have the option of taking him but I'd pass.

Why can't he play like Wilson? you act like that's all he did last year was take off out of the pocket, but a lot of those run plays (especially the title game) were designed runs and when he did scramble he was looking down field to throw. He wasn't taking stupid hits like RG3 always does either.

Mariota played last year at 215 at 6-4 which makes him thinner than a 6-2 210 Watson IMHO....I don't see why Watson couldn't throw on a couple more lbs with a full NFL off season anyway. If we have a chance at getting him you don't pass it up no way. In chip's system he's be a monster.

I agree with all of this, but I don't know that the Mariota comparison helps, since that guy got hurt.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I agree with all of this, but I don't know that the Mariota comparison helps, since that guy got hurt.

That OL was horrible...he didn't get hurt running around and scrambling he got hurt in the pocket



also got hurt on a dirty play by the phins...nothing to do with scrambling.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I agree with all of this, but I don't know that the Mariota comparison helps, since that guy got hurt.

That OL was horrible...he didn't get hurt running around and scrambling he got hurt in the pocket



also got hurt on a dirty play by the phins...nothing to do with scrambling.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that this strengthens your point. If a QB has protection in the pocket, due to the rules of the game, and he gets hurt in the pocket, doesn't it stand to reason that he could be at additional risk of injury when he escapes the pocket and forfeits that protection? I'm not anticipating where he would get hurt; I'm just saying the likelihood increases, and Mariota wasn't exactly an ironman at his height and weight. That's certainly not definitive evidence that he WILL get hurt again or that Watson WILL be injury prone in the NFL. I'm just saying that Mariota's career thus far hasn't provided a great example of skinny QBs avoiding injury.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that this strengthens your point. If a QB has protection in the pocket, due to the rules of the game, and he gets hurt in the pocket, doesn't it stand to reason that he could be at additional risk of injury when he escapes the pocket and forfeits that protection? I'm not anticipating where he would get hurt; I'm just saying the likelihood increases, and Mariota wasn't exactly an ironman at his height and weight. That's certainly not definitive evidence that he WILL get hurt again or that Watson WILL be injury prone in the NFL. I'm just saying that Mariota's career thus far hasn't provided a great example of skinny QBs avoiding injury.

Maybe your misunderstanding why I brought up Marcus....the previous poster's complaint is Watson is too small to be running around and scrambling (even though he does much much more than that). Marcus is around the same weight and never got hurt while scrambling, but because the OL didn't pickup a blitz and the phins went low on him (which can and does happen to QBs big and small).

Sure the bigger you are the more you should be able to withstand, but Big Ben missed 4 games this year and Sam Bradford who's not small (6-4 230) is always getting hurt. Sometimes it's better to have a quick QB that can create time and avoid getting smashed vs a big low guy, especially since our OL is really a question mark right now (love the upside though).

I have no issue with having someone like Watson who IMO can be just like R Wilson and be a real duel threat. That's what Chip needs to get the most our of his system. If Watson continues to play like he did this past season and we have a real shot at getting him they need to do what they can to get him.

Fair enough. I want Watson, too. I'd also like to see him at 225.

Watson weighed in at 218 today at Clemson. The whole team had weigh-ins to start fall camp, and he came in at a solid 218. Looks noticeably thicker now after putting on good weight.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Fair enough. I want Watson, too. I'd also like to see him at 225.

I feel like that's not our of the realm at all...looks like he's at 218 now and he's only 20.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by genus49:
Matt Ryan sucks?

We would've won at least 2 superbowls with Matt Ryan in the last 5 season IMO. Matt Ryan may not be Tom Brady but he's far from sucking.

I don't agree with that at all. I think he's a choker whose stats got inflated by having one of the best supporting casts in the history of football.

I think Andy Dalton is a bad-to-mediocre QB, but I'd take him over Matt Ryan (barely).

Disagree...I think Matt Ryan is a fine QB. He's had no defense or OL for most of his career and he's been very accurate despite that line.

http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2014/8/2/5948513/how-good-is-matt-ryans-accuracy

Matt Ryan was a legit ass QB. I don't think he's that elite now, but man, that boy can sling a football