Worst 5 Drafts in Last 10 Years

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by English:
But
Sorry but limiting it to that year appears to be your view not the writers, unless I miss something. And if a team had drafted Jerry Rice that year but not played him, do you not think that the long term impact of that pick would have been included? Of course it would.

The writer explicitly states as much when qualifying the drafts as poor using the metrics of the amount of primary starters drafted and total games played. Not sure what you're not following in the article.

The 2012 draft class has combined for just eight career NFL starts (no starts coming during their rookie seasons); no team's draft class outside of the 2014 draft has produced fewer total starts.

Judging it that way avoids taking drafting back in time into account. Anyway, he makes a point about career starts as opposed to rookie starts, and thus is not limiting it to one year.

A draft can only be assessed on the value added to the team. By players, draft picks, trades for picks, trades for players. No other method has any point.

I don't think you're following what I'm saying, which is he's basing the draft on the players drafted that year not just their contributions for one single year. The players Baalke drafted that year had basically zero impact on the team at any point after they were drafted, which is why the writer explains it was one of the worst drafts in the last ten years. Trades, etc. don't matter because the draft is dealing with players that were taken in 2012 and nothing else.

What can you say, the draft is a crap shoot with an illusion of control. Personally, I evaluate GM's on roster management. And the draft is only a part of that equation. 49ers are very fortunate to have Baalke, Period.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by English:

Do we have to go through this yet again?

You are writing off players because the previous coaches didn't give them playing time or appropriate opportunities. Carradine, Dial, Patton and McDonald will in all probability contribute bit time this year. Reid, with better individual coaching is likely to be fine but hard to see how this one counts against the standard of drafting.

The following year only "wasn't much better" if you are just interested in putting down Baalke.

You speaking on on probabilities while I speak on facts up to this point, of course anyone can turn in around but what they have done (or haven't done) so far does matter.

Also lol at Reid receiving better individual coaching, Donatell is one of the best secondary coaches in the business.

Of course you think that Donatell is one of the best secondary coaches now that he's no longer on the 49ers coaching staff....

Originally posted by susweel:

well the following year wasn't much better



1(18). Eric Reid, Safety, LSU - good player but concussion problems
2(40). Cornellius "Tank" Carradine, Defensive End, Florida State - so far he's a bust
2(55). Vance McDonald, Tight End, Rice - big time bust
3(88). Corey Lemonier, Outside Linebacker, Auburn - bust
4(128). Quinton Patton, Wide Receiver, Louisiana Tech - back up caliber player
4(131). Marcus Lattimore, Running Back, South Carolina - epic waste of pick
5(157). Quinton Dial, Defensive Lineman, Alabama - decent rotational player
6(180). Nick Moody, Linebacker, Florida State - special teams only player
7(237). B.J. Daniels, Quarterback, South Florida - cut
7(246). Carter Bykowski, Offensive Tackle, Iowa State - cut
7(252). Marcus Cooper, Defensive Back, Rutgers- cut

I read this post before seeing who posted it and I knew you had to culprit....lol

Originally posted by Geeked:
What can you say, the draft is a crap shoot with an illusion of control. Personally, I evaluate GM's on roster management. And the draft is only a part of that equation. 49ers are very fortunate to have Baalke, Period.

Good call man!

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by English:
Do we have to go through this yet again?

You are writing off players because the previous coaches didn't give them playing time or appropriate opportunities. Carradine, Dial, Patton and McDonald will in all probability contribute bit time this year. Reid, with better individual coaching is likely to be fine but hard to see how this one counts against the standard of drafting.

The following year only "wasn't much better" if you are just interested in putting down Baalke.

You speaking on on probabilities while I speak on facts up to this point, of course anyone can turn in around but what they have done (or haven't done) so far does matter.

Also lol at Reid receiving better individual coaching, Donatell is one of the best secondary coaches in the business.

Of course you think that Donatell is one of the best secondary coaches now that he's no longer on the 49ers coaching staff....

Originally posted by susweel:
well the following year wasn't much better



1(18). Eric Reid, Safety, LSU - good player but concussion problems
2(40). Cornellius "Tank" Carradine, Defensive End, Florida State - so far he's a bust
2(55). Vance McDonald, Tight End, Rice - big time bust
3(88). Corey Lemonier, Outside Linebacker, Auburn - bust
4(128). Quinton Patton, Wide Receiver, Louisiana Tech - back up caliber player
4(131). Marcus Lattimore, Running Back, South Carolina - epic waste of pick
5(157). Quinton Dial, Defensive Lineman, Alabama - decent rotational player
6(180). Nick Moody, Linebacker, Florida State - special teams only player
7(237). B.J. Daniels, Quarterback, South Florida - cut
7(246). Carter Bykowski, Offensive Tackle, Iowa State - cut
7(252). Marcus Cooper, Defensive Back, Rutgers- cut

I read this post before seeing who posted it and I knew you had to culprit....lol

Was any of it no true ?

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by susweel:
well the following year wasn't much better



1(18). Eric Reid, Safety, LSU - good player but concussion problems
2(40). Cornellius "Tank" Carradine, Defensive End, Florida State - so far he's a bust
2(55). Vance McDonald, Tight End, Rice - big time bust
3(88). Corey Lemonier, Outside Linebacker, Auburn - bust
4(128). Quinton Patton, Wide Receiver, Louisiana Tech - back up caliber player
4(131). Marcus Lattimore, Running Back, South Carolina - epic waste of pick
5(157). Quinton Dial, Defensive Lineman, Alabama - decent rotational player
6(180). Nick Moody, Linebacker, Florida State - special teams only player
7(237). B.J. Daniels, Quarterback, South Florida - cut
7(246). Carter Bykowski, Offensive Tackle, Iowa State - cut
7(252). Marcus Cooper, Defensive Back, Rutgers- cut

Sadly this has been pretty accurate so far. I think Tank will break out a be a decent players. All those top picks and we haven't seen any major production except for Reid. Tank hasn't really played much and McDonald has pretty much failed every opportunity he has been given. These guys really need to shine this year. the 2012 draft was god awful

Susweel is VERY Right. Balke has Gone down the pooper as a drafter. Balke did good in 2010 and 2011 but after that has been an EPIC Failure. He aquired the most picks since then fine but what the hell has he done with those picks? All ACL team. Well memo to Trent, this is the NFL which means NOT FOR LONG if you keep drafting for "The Future" Well the Future may not ever get there and now the 49ers are in a HUGE Roster turnover because Balke cannot Draft For POOP.

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by susweel:
well the following year wasn't much better



1(18). Eric Reid, Safety, LSU - good player but concussion problems
2(40). Cornellius "Tank" Carradine, Defensive End, Florida State - so far he's a bust
2(55). Vance McDonald, Tight End, Rice - big time bust
3(88). Corey Lemonier, Outside Linebacker, Auburn - bust
4(128). Quinton Patton, Wide Receiver, Louisiana Tech - back up caliber player
4(131). Marcus Lattimore, Running Back, South Carolina - epic waste of pick
5(157). Quinton Dial, Defensive Lineman, Alabama - decent rotational player
6(180). Nick Moody, Linebacker, Florida State - special teams only player
7(237). B.J. Daniels, Quarterback, South Florida - cut
7(246). Carter Bykowski, Offensive Tackle, Iowa State - cut
7(252). Marcus Cooper, Defensive Back, Rutgers- cut

Sadly this has been pretty accurate so far. I think Tank will break out a be a decent players. All those top picks and we haven't seen any major production except for Reid. Tank hasn't really played much and McDonald has pretty much failed every opportunity he has been given. These guys really need to shine this year. the 2012 draft was god awful

Susweel is VERY Right. Balke has Gone down the pooper as a drafter. Balke did good in 2010 and 2011 but after that has been an EPIC Failure. He aquired the most picks since then fine but what the hell has he done with those picks? All ACL team. Well memo to Trent, this is the NFL which means NOT FOR LONG if you keep drafting for "The Future" Well the Future may not ever get there and now the 49ers are in a HUGE Roster turnover because Balke cannot Draft For POOP.

Explain to me how "a HUGE roster turnover" has to do with Baalke's drafting, i.e(retirement and free agency)

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Explain to me how "a HUGE roster turnover" has to do with Baalke's drafting, i.e(retirement and free agency)

are you serious????? losing both starting CBs and NOT DRAFTING one???????? Losing Willis and Boreland both ILB and NOT DRAFTING ONE????????? Are you serious???????

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Explain to me how "a HUGE roster turnover" has to do with Baalke's drafting, i.e(retirement and free agency)

are you serious????? losing both starting CBs and NOT DRAFTING one???????? Losing Willis and Boreland both ILB and NOT DRAFTING ONE????????? Are you serious???????

He had already drafted the corners. Weren't you concentrating? ILBs could be covered and had relatively low value this draft.

He doesn't draft to plug gaps. He drafts for the future.

By the way, most people here can read lower case. Unnecessary capitalisation just looks as though you are trying to be offensive.

This is 2015, three years after that draft. Three years after the fact is a good length of time to evaluate a draft. At least one of your first few picks should be looking to really help your team this year. We have zero guys from that draft to help this team now. If you can't see that point and how that draft is bad idk what else to say.

This years draft questions.
As far as the CB's go I don't think taking a TE in the 4th round was a better choice than finding a backup CB anywhere throughout the draft. We have 8 TE on the roster and will prob keep three. I don't think we have ONE CB on the roster that has started more than a full season, it's a pretty big question mark as to how well they will perform. He did take a SS in Tartt that he will prob turn into a nickcle back lol. Trents obsession with safeties is real. 2-3-6 Big Safety D.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by English:
Do we have to go through this yet again?

You are writing off players because the previous coaches didn't give them playing time or appropriate opportunities. Carradine, Dial, Patton and McDonald will in all probability contribute bit time this year. Reid, with better individual coaching is likely to be fine but hard to see how this one counts against the standard of drafting.

The following year only "wasn't much better" if you are just interested in putting down Baalke.

You speaking on on probabilities while I speak on facts up to this point, of course anyone can turn in around but what they have done (or haven't done) so far does matter.

Also lol at Reid receiving better individual coaching, Donatell is one of the best secondary coaches in the business.

Since you are speaking on facts :

Fact is Reid's concussion issues have no bearing on Baalke's decision to move up to take him. He had no previous history and as far as we know was not red flagged from combine medicals or private medicals given by teams upon pre draft visits.

Fact is Vance has fared well in the role he had been asked to assume to date, which is being a blocker. You cannot fault the guy for not having scored a plethora of TD's and racking up tons of yards when he is not being used in such capacity.

Fact is Vic himself said Tank's arrow was continuing to point up and he was getting better. Fact is most guys take at least a year to get back to being close to their previous form after tearing an ACL. Some find that form quickly, others take a longer. But he has continued to improve, not regress.

Fact is the previous staff refused to give the young guys much opportunity. Patton may develop into more than a backup type of situational/role player if given opportunities.

Fact is that calling Lattimore and "epic waste of a pick" is an epic overstatement. A guy with his talent level taken that late in the 4th round with a comp pick was a gamble but came with the potential of an incredibly high reward, and on a team and at a position that allowed us to stash him while he could recover. We had 11 picks, and very few roster spots available so using 2 picks on guys who would redshirt in there first year was essentially us adding 2 injured first round talents with 2nd and 4th round picks and gambling on them being able to fully recover, which given todays advances in medicine seemed like pretty good bets. Fact is most players taken that late or later don't last beyond at most a couple or a few seasons as fodder at best.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by English:
Do we have to go through this yet again?

You are writing off players because the previous coaches didn't give them playing time or appropriate opportunities. Carradine, Dial, Patton and McDonald will in all probability contribute bit time this year. Reid, with better individual coaching is likely to be fine but hard to see how this one counts against the standard of drafting.

The following year only "wasn't much better" if you are just interested in putting down Baalke.

You speaking on on probabilities while I speak on facts up to this point, of course anyone can turn in around but what they have done (or haven't done) so far does matter.

Also lol at Reid receiving better individual coaching, Donatell is one of the best secondary coaches in the business.

Since you are speaking on facts :

Fact is Reid's concussion issues have no bearing on Baalke's decision to move up to take him. He had no previous history and as far as we know was not red flagged from combine medicals or private medicals given by teams upon pre draft visits.

Fact is Vance has fared well in the role he had been asked to assume to date, which is being a blocker. You cannot fault the guy for not having scored a plethora of TD's and racking up tons of yards when he is not being used in such capacity.

Fact is Vic himself said Tank's arrow was continuing to point up and he was getting better. Fact is most guys take at least a year to get back to being close to their previous form after tearing an ACL. Some find that form quickly, others take a longer. But he has continued to improve, not regress.

Fact is the previous staff refused to give the young guys much opportunity. Patton may develop into more than a backup type of situational/role player if given opportunities.

Fact is that calling Lattimore and "epic waste of a pick" is an epic overstatement. A guy with his talent level taken that late in the 4th round with a comp pick was a gamble but came with the potential of an incredibly high reward, and on a team and at a position that allowed us to stash him while he could recover. We had 11 picks, and very few roster spots available so using 2 picks on guys who would redshirt in there first year was essentially us adding 2 injured first round talents with 2nd and 4th round picks and gambling on them being able to fully recover, which given todays advances in medicine seemed like pretty good bets. Fact is most players taken that late or later don't last beyond at most a couple or a few seasons as fodder at best.

Fact is none of those players other than Reid has done jack s**t in their careers. Now that you cannot argue.

Originally posted by susweel:
Fact is none of those players other than Reid has done jack s**t in their careers. Now that you cannot argue.

Sad but true, but too early to judge if those players will have an impact in the next couple of years. We'll have a better idea in 2016/2017 how good or bad the 2013 draft was.

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by susweel:
Fact is none of those players other than Reid has done jack s**t in their careers. Now that you cannot argue.

Sad but true, but too early to judge if those players will have an impact in the next couple of years. We'll have a better idea in 2016/2017 how good or bad the 2013 draft was.

We should have a pretty clear cut idea after this season.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Originally posted by susweel:
Fact is none of those players other than Reid has done jack s**t in their careers. Now that you cannot argue.

Sad but true, but too early to judge if those players will have an impact in the next couple of years. We'll have a better idea in 2016/2017 how good or bad the 2013 draft was.

We should have a pretty clear cut idea after this season.

Yeah, you're probably right assuming Lemonier, Patton, Dial and McDonald get more opportunities this season because of the roster turnover.