Why WR? Trade up

I have read a ton of reports saying more or less that the 9ers are going to draft Armstead out of Oregon... or the best WR on the board... OR... trade up and grab a WR. I don't really understand this logic. In Armstead's case... he hasn't really produced a ton in his college career and I personally think he is a reach at 15. In terms of WR... why did the 9ers in Smith to such a large FA deal if they didn't expect that both Smith and Boldin would carry the WR spots this season and next? I know Bolden isn't getting any younger, but he is still very, very productive and that productivity might even go up with Smith on the opposite side of the field. So it begs the question, why draft a WR in the top half of the first? Are the 9ers going to open things up with 3 WRs regularly on the field? With Vernon Davis and Bush do they not have a ton of weapons for Kaep?

When you look at the names the 9ers have lost this offseason and the holes they left and what the team has to back fill, WR seems pretty far down the list. To me they have only depth players on the interior of the OL (especially with the loss of Iupati). The middle of their D lost McDonald, Borland and Willis... and leading into the draft you have to consider J. Smith in there too. I know they have drafted DBs early in the last two drafts, but neither guy is really a CB and they lost both their starters. Other than Brock I feel that their CBs are depth guys at best.

I think the 9ers need to target guys that can fill holes immediately. WR is deep in this draft and can be found later. This draft appears to be weak at ILB... so if they target somebody I feel it should be DL, OL, and CB. With all the guys the 9ers drafted last year that were 'redshirted' I feel that they have a ton of depth already... I personally think they should target and maybe move up. With that said I feel strongly that the 9ers should trade up and try to land G/T Brandon Scherff with the idea that they could keep him inside and move him to T in a couple of seasons (Hyde running behind Davis and Scherff could bring a lot of headaches). If Trae Waynes (CB) drops past the 8th or 9th spot the 9ers should definitely trade up and get him. The only knock on him is he is light... he'll put on weight for sure with his frame and he hits like a ton. Danny Shelton (NT) is the other guy I think the 9ers should target (it is certainly possible that one of these three drops to 15, but I doubt it). Shelton is huge... He could play nose in the 9ers 3-4. He is a great athlete for his size and was very active in the offensive backfield last year. The 9ers desperately need to retool the middle of their D which used to be the strength of the entire team (Smith, Willis, Borland, McDonald all gone). I see Shelton as the kind of player to allow the 9ers to remain a top run defender for years... and if Justin Smith comes back... the D line would continue to be the class of the team.

I think in part it has been because we have been looking for a number one receiver since TO. Boldin is amazing, but well past his prime and likely done soon. Crabs was solid, but no where near a number one guy. Smith is good, but once again not a number one guy. If you see a receiver who you believe can be a top guy in the league it is worth it. AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Dez all make their teams offense go. If you put a top guy like that with Kaepernick our offense becomes 1000x more dangerous.

WR has also been one of our biggest issues stopping us just short of winning the Superbowl while Harbaugh was here. Seattle has had nothing to fear from us on the outside, which has caused some big issues for us when playing them.

I agree that our talent has depleted a bit on defense, but I also think Balke has a much better eye for talent on defense than on offense. I would trust a late D pick by Balke to make an impact much more than a late pick on offense. If he sees one WR that is cant miss and can be had than I trust him to use those late picks to bring in contributors on the defensive side.

Originally posted by hohbie:

I think in part it has been because we have been looking for a number one receiver since TO. Boldin is amazing, but well past his prime and likely done soon. Crabs was solid, but no where near a number one guy. Smith is good, but once again not a number one guy. If you see a receiver who you believe can be a top guy in the league it is worth it. AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Dez all make their teams offense go. If you put a top guy like that with Kaepernick our offense becomes 1000x more dangerous.

WR has also been one of our biggest issues stopping us just short of winning the Superbowl while Harbaugh was here. Seattle has had nothing to fear from us on the outside, which has caused some big issues for us when playing them.

I agree that our talent has depleted a bit on defense, but I also think Balke has a much better eye for talent on defense than on offense. I would trust a late D pick by Balke to make an impact much more than a late pick on offense. If he sees one WR that is cant miss and can be had than I trust him to use those late picks to bring in contributors on the defensive side.

I concur 👌🏽, #ImtellingyouDraftCooper

I'm not certain Cooper is a can't miss guy. Particularly given the type of offense the 9ers run. Kevin White looks more the part. Size, speed, hands, vision. Neither guy benefits the run game... at all. Remember Crabtree was considered a can't miss guy. Neither White nor Cooper produced even close to Crabtree (he had like 40+ TDs in two years!). You need a passing game that hits receivers on the fly to make use of either of those two guys. I still think the 9ers are better off targeting an impact guy. If one of those WR fell to them at 15... that's different. But I'd rather see them target a player they can get on the field.

Originally posted by Micky6:

If Trae Waynes (CB) drops past the 8th or 9th spot the 9ers should definitely trade up and get him. The only knock on him is he is light... he'll put on weight for sure with his frame and he hits like a ton. .

Disagree, Waynes COD is in question given his 3 cone time. Could look to Peters or Kevin Johnson at corner as well.

Originally posted by Micky6:
I'm not certain Cooper is a can't miss guy. Particularly given the type of offense the 9ers run. Kevin White looks more the part. Size, speed, hands, vision. Neither guy benefits the run game... at all. Remember Crabtree was considered a can't miss guy. Neither White nor Cooper produced even close to Crabtree (he had like 40+ TDs in two years!). You need a passing game that hits receivers on the fly to make use of either of those two guys. I still think the 9ers are better off targeting an impact guy. If one of those WR fell to them at 15... that's different. But I'd rather see them target a player they can get on the field.

Im not sure if Cooper is or not, but I am saying if Balke did. He has said in the past that he wishes he had a chance to get OBJ last year. If he liked Cooper more than him, then he may be more apt to do it this year. Cooper or White would definitely get on the field this year, so I wouldnt worry about that. I also think Balke's eye for defensive talent late is outstanding.

I dont believe we will actually trade up far enough to get Cooper, but I would be ecstatic if we did. If I had to guess, I think we actually slide back a few picks and pick up some extra picks and end up taking either a CB or DE/OLB.

Originally posted by hohbie:
I think in part it has been because we have been looking for a number one receiver since TO. Boldin is amazing, but well past his prime and likely done soon. Crabs was solid, but no where near a number one guy. Smith is good, but once again not a number one guy. If you see a receiver who you believe can be a top guy in the league it is worth it. AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Dez all make their teams offense go. If you put a top guy like that with Kaepernick our offense becomes 1000x more dangerous.

WR has also been one of our biggest issues stopping us just short of winning the Superbowl while Harbaugh was here. Seattle has had nothing to fear from us on the outside, which has caused some big issues for us when playing them.

I agree that our talent has depleted a bit on defense, but I also think Balke has a much better eye for talent on defense than on offense. I would trust a late D pick by Balke to make an impact much more than a late pick on offense. If he sees one WR that is cant miss and can be had than I trust him to use those late picks to bring in contributors on the defensive side.

I couldn't agree with this more.

Originally posted by Micky6:
I'm not certain Cooper is a can't miss guy. Particularly given the type of offense the 9ers run. Kevin White looks more the part. Size, speed, hands, vision. Neither guy benefits the run game... at all. Remember Crabtree was considered a can't miss guy. Neither White nor Cooper produced even close to Crabtree (he had like 40+ TDs in two years!). You need a passing game that hits receivers on the fly to make use of either of those two guys. I still think the 9ers are better off targeting an impact guy. If one of those WR fell to them at 15... that's different. But I'd rather see them target a player they can get on the field.

What? He literally has no flaws, It doesn't matter what offense you run if you're #1 WR can get separation on every play it makes your QB,the o-line, and yes the run game better.

Crabtree was a product of a college system that blew up his stats, they are not even close to the same player.

Cooper was in a pro-style offense, can run every route you ask him, is plenty fast (ran a faster 40 than OBJ) is a factor on all levels of the field, and smashed the SEC for multiple seasons. There is no way he wouldn't be on the field!

To me it makes more sense to trade down.

Would love Cooper or White but don't think its worth trading up into top 5/10 with all the other needs we have.

This was a tough offseason and while we're still a pretty talented football team we're not as "stacked" as we were before.

If you think about it after comings/goings we lost

1 starting DE
1 starting ILB(though technically we lost 2 :()
1 starting CB

We have questions at ILB depth now
We have questions at corner
We have questions at OG
We can use a replacement for Anquan

That's not even taking into consideration just the team going BPA to stay ahead of other needs.

Originally posted by Micky6:
I have read a ton of reports saying more or less that the 9ers are going to draft Armstead out of Oregon... or the best WR on the board... OR... trade up and grab a WR. I don't really understand this logic. In Armstead's case... he hasn't really produced a ton in his college career and I personally think he is a reach at 15. In terms of WR... why did the 9ers in Smith to such a large FA deal if they didn't expect that both Smith and Boldin would carry the WR spots this season and next? I know Bolden isn't getting any younger, but he is still very, very productive and that productivity might even go up with Smith on the opposite side of the field. So it begs the question, why draft a WR in the top half of the first? Are the 9ers going to open things up with 3 WRs regularly on the field? With Vernon Davis and Bush do they not have a ton of weapons for Kaep?

When you look at the names the 9ers have lost this offseason and the holes they left and what the team has to back fill, WR seems pretty far down the list. To me they have only depth players on the interior of the OL (especially with the loss of Iupati). The middle of their D lost McDonald, Borland and Willis... and leading into the draft you have to consider J. Smith in there too. I know they have drafted DBs early in the last two drafts, but neither guy is really a CB and they lost both their starters. Other than Brock I feel that their CBs are depth guys at best.

I think the 9ers need to target guys that can fill holes immediately. WR is deep in this draft and can be found later. This draft appears to be weak at ILB... so if they target somebody I feel it should be DL, OL, and CB. With all the guys the 9ers drafted last year that were 'redshirted' I feel that they have a ton of depth already... I personally think they should target and maybe move up. With that said I feel strongly that the 9ers should trade up and try to land G/T Brandon Scherff with the idea that they could keep him inside and move him to T in a couple of seasons (Hyde running behind Davis and Scherff could bring a lot of headaches). If Trae Waynes (CB) drops past the 8th or 9th spot the 9ers should definitely trade up and get him. The only knock on him is he is light... he'll put on weight for sure with his frame and he hits like a ton. Danny Shelton (NT) is the other guy I think the 9ers should target (it is certainly possible that one of these three drops to 15, but I doubt it). Shelton is huge... He could play nose in the 9ers 3-4. He is a great athlete for his size and was very active in the offensive backfield last year. The 9ers desperately need to retool the middle of their D which used to be the strength of the entire team (Smith, Willis, Borland, McDonald all gone). I see Shelton as the kind of player to allow the 9ers to remain a top run defender for years... and if Justin Smith comes back... the D line would continue to be the class of the team.

1st Smith is not a #1 WR and has had over 50 catches once in his career (he was 2nd in the league in dropped balls). He's a deep-threat (best in the game) and is a solid #2. They will not be paying a 36 yr old Boldin $6+ million next season and most likely we move on from him, so who does that leave us with? Smith,Patton,Ellington....that's a horrible WR corp that no team's defense will be worried about. They will continue to stack the box, our o-line will have to pass-protect longer (more sacks),and the defense will be on the field more because we STILL can't convert 3rd-down plays.

SF has not been in a position to grab a great play maker at WR for the past couple seasons, that's why everyone is talking about it. Baalke has drafted a WR once in the first 3 rounds since being the GM, thus not really worrying about the position in the draft...that needs to change. I think we can safely say that Kap is not a QB (at this point) that makes WRs better,but good WRs make him better.

Also what has Baalke been great at drafting? The positions that you think we need help at CB,DL,LB etc.....he has found value for those positions multiple times, please tell me what he's found for WRs in the draft?? Our two starting WRs weren't even drafted by SF lol.

I'm sooooo tired of hearing "oh this draft is deep at WR" let's wait until the later rounds because that's worked out so many times smh....when's the last time we developed a WR from the later rounds??

Why do you think all of the current CBs on the roster are just depth players?? Reser/Acker haven't even played yet because of injury and DJ looked promising. Why can't Martin, Pears, Looney, or Thomas take over the one spot we have open on the line? Thomas was drafted to take Iupati's spot, Baalke even stated that. I don't want our 3rd round lineman sitting the bench or possibly a rookie at 15....that is counterproductive.

Move up for a play maker that can help our o-line,running game, and Kap! I'd rather have a top WR on a rookie contract than a OG on a rookie contract as well.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
1st Smith is not a #1 WR and has had over 50 catches once in his career (he was 2nd in the league in dropped balls). He's a deep-threat (best in the game) and is a solid #2. They will not be paying a 36 yr old Boldin $6+ million next season and most likely we move on from him, so who does that leave us with? Smith,Patton,Ellington....that's a horrible WR corp that no team's defense will be worried about. They will continue to stack the box, our o-line will have to pass-protect longer (more sacks),and the defense will be on the field more because we STILL can't convert 3rd-down plays.

SF has not been in a position to grab a great play maker at WR for the past couple seasons, that's why everyone is talking about it. Baalke has drafted a WR once in the first 3 rounds since being the GM, thus not really worrying about the position in the draft...that needs to change. I think we can safely say that Kap is not a QB (at this point) that makes WRs better,but good WRs make him better.

Also what has Baalke been great at drafting? The positions that you think we need help at CB,DL,LB etc.....he has found value for those positions multiple times, please tell me what he's found for WRs in the draft?? Our two starting WRs weren't even drafted by SF lol.

I'm sooooo tired of hearing "oh this draft is deep at WR" let's wait until the later rounds because that's worked out so many times smh....when's the last time we developed a WR from the later rounds??

Why do you think all of the current CBs all the roster are depth players?? Reser/Acker haven't even played yet because of injury and DJ looked promising. Why can't Martin, Pears, Looney, or Thomas take over the one spot we have open on the line? Thomas was drafted to take Iupati's spot, Baalke even stated that. I don't want our 3rd round lineman sitting the bench or possibly a rookie at 15....that is counterproductive.

Move up for a play maker that can help our o-line,running game, and Kap! I'd rather have a top WR on a rookie contract than a OG on a rookie contract as well.

I 1000% agree with this part. Top WRs are not easy to get (contrary to what some draft gurus believe). They are pretty rare and I think we are looking for more than a serviceable guy.

Originally posted by hohbie:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
1st Smith is not a #1 WR and has had over 50 catches once in his career (he was 2nd in the league in dropped balls). He's a deep-threat (best in the game) and is a solid #2. They will not be paying a 36 yr old Boldin $6+ million next season and most likely we move on from him, so who does that leave us with? Smith,Patton,Ellington....that's a horrible WR corp that no team's defense will be worried about. They will continue to stack the box, our o-line will have to pass-protect longer (more sacks),and the defense will be on the field more because we STILL can't convert 3rd-down plays.

SF has not been in a position to grab a great play maker at WR for the past couple seasons, that's why everyone is talking about it. Baalke has drafted a WR once in the first 3 rounds since being the GM, thus not really worrying about the position in the draft...that needs to change. I think we can safely say that Kap is not a QB (at this point) that makes WRs better,but good WRs make him better.

Also what has Baalke been great at drafting? The positions that you think we need help at CB,DL,LB etc.....he has found value for those positions multiple times, please tell me what he's found for WRs in the draft?? Our two starting WRs weren't even drafted by SF lol.

I'm sooooo tired of hearing "oh this draft is deep at WR" let's wait until the later rounds because that's worked out so many times smh....when's the last time we developed a WR from the later rounds??

Why do you think all of the current CBs all the roster are depth players?? Reser/Acker haven't even played yet because of injury and DJ looked promising. Why can't Martin, Pears, Looney, or Thomas take over the one spot we have open on the line? Thomas was drafted to take Iupati's spot, Baalke even stated that. I don't want our 3rd round lineman sitting the bench or possibly a rookie at 15....that is counterproductive.

Move up for a play maker that can help our o-line,running game, and Kap! I'd rather have a top WR on a rookie contract than a OG on a rookie contract as well.

I 1000% agree with this part. Top WRs are not easy to get (contrary to what some draft gurus believe). They are pretty rare and I think we are looking for more than a serviceable guy.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by hohbie:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
1st Smith is not a #1 WR and has had over 50 catches once in his career (he was 2nd in the league in dropped balls). He's a deep-threat (best in the game) and is a solid #2. They will not be paying a 36 yr old Boldin $6+ million next season and most likely we move on from him, so who does that leave us with? Smith,Patton,Ellington....that's a horrible WR corp that no team's defense will be worried about. They will continue to stack the box, our o-line will have to pass-protect longer (more sacks),and the defense will be on the field more because we STILL can't convert 3rd-down plays.

SF has not been in a position to grab a great play maker at WR for the past couple seasons, that's why everyone is talking about it. Baalke has drafted a WR once in the first 3 rounds since being the GM, thus not really worrying about the position in the draft...that needs to change. I think we can safely say that Kap is not a QB (at this point) that makes WRs better,but good WRs make him better.

Also what has Baalke been great at drafting? The positions that you think we need help at CB,DL,LB etc.....he has found value for those positions multiple times, please tell me what he's found for WRs in the draft?? Our two starting WRs weren't even drafted by SF lol.

I'm sooooo tired of hearing "oh this draft is deep at WR" let's wait until the later rounds because that's worked out so many times smh....when's the last time we developed a WR from the later rounds??

Why do you think all of the current CBs all the roster are depth players?? Reser/Acker haven't even played yet because of injury and DJ looked promising. Why can't Martin, Pears, Looney, or Thomas take over the one spot we have open on the line? Thomas was drafted to take Iupati's spot, Baalke even stated that. I don't want our 3rd round lineman sitting the bench or possibly a rookie at 15....that is counterproductive.

Move up for a play maker that can help our o-line,running game, and Kap! I'd rather have a top WR on a rookie contract than a OG on a rookie contract as well.

I 1000% agree with this part. Top WRs are not easy to get (contrary to what some draft gurus believe). They are pretty rare and I think we are looking for more than a serviceable guy.

I agree with this...+1

With that said the first receiver taken isnt always the best. I am looking at the past drafts for funsies and here is what I think. I only use 1st round receivers when deciding if they are busts.

2014 1st: Sammie Watkins (#4 Bills)
2014 Best: Odell Beckham (#12 Giants)
-Cant really tell who will be the best here yet, but that's my opinion right now.
-Honorable mentions: Evans (#7), Cooks (#20), Benjamin (#28), Matthews (#42) all look good so far.
-Busts: None so far

2013 1st: Tavon Austin (#8 Rams)
2013 Best: Keenan Allen (#76 Chargers)
-Honorable mentions: Not really anyone blowing people away yet. Hopkins (#27), Patterson (#29) showed flashes but nothing great yet.
-Busts: I think Austin has been a bust but still has a chance.

2012 1st: Justin Blackmon (#5 Jaguars)
2012 Best: Alshon Jeffrey (#45 Bears)
-Honorable mentions: TY Hilton (#92), Floyd (#13)
-Busts: Blackmon, Jenkins (#30)

2011 1st: AJ Green (#4 Bengals)
2011 Best: AJ Green (#4 Bengals)
-Honorable mentions: Julio Jones (#6), Torrey Smith (#58), Randall Cobb (#64),
-Busts: Jonathon Baldwin (#26)

2010 1st: Demaryius Thomas (#22 Broncos)
2010 Best: Dez Bryant (#24 Cowboys)
-Honorable mention: Thomas, Decker (#87), Antonio Brown (#195), Emmanuel Sanders (#82)
-Busts: None

2009 1st: Darrius Heyward Bey (#7 Raiders)
2009 Best: Jeremy Maclin (#19 Eagles) or Julian Edelman (#232 Patriots)
-Honorable mentions: Crabtree (#10), Wallace (#84), Harvin (#22)
-Busts: Nicks (#29), Britt (#30)

2008 1st: Donnie Avery (#33 Rams)
2008 Best: Jordy Nelson (#36 Packers)
-Honorable mentions: Desean Jackson (#49)
-Busts: No 1st round receivers selected

2007 1st: Calvin Johnson (#2 Lions)
2007 Best: Calvin Johnson (#2 Lions)
-Honorable mentions: Bowe (#23)
-Busts: Ginn (#9), Meachem (#23), Davis (#30), Gonzalez (#32)

2006 1st: Santonio Holmes (#25 Steelers)
2006 Best: Brandon Marshall (#119 Broncos)
-Honorable mentions: Marques Colston (#252)
-Busts: None

2005 1st: Braylon Edwards (#3 Browns)
2005 Best: Roddy White (#27 Falcons)
-Honorable mentions: Vincent Jackson (#61)
-Busts: Williamson (#7), Williams (#10), Jones (#21), Clayton (#22)

2004 1st: Larry Fitzgerald (#3 Cardinals)
2004 Best: Larry Fitzgerald (#3 Cardinals)
-Honorable mentions: None really
-Busts: Williams (#7), Williams (#9), Woods (#31)

After looking at this maybe I dont want Cooper as much. Haha

Originally posted by genus49:

To me it makes more sense to trade down.

Would love Cooper or White but don't think its worth trading up into top 5/10 with all the other needs we have.

This was a tough offseason and while we're still a pretty talented football team we're not as "stacked" as we were before.

If you think about it after comings/goings we lost

1 starting DE
1 starting ILB(though technically we lost 2 :()
1 starting CB

We have questions at ILB depth now
We have questions at corner
We have questions at OG
We can use a replacement for Anquan

That's not even taking into consideration just the team going BPA to stay ahead of other needs.

Agreed. Trade down and grab an extra second. Then you take OL, CB, WR, or DL with your first 3 picks.