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Chris Borland?

Originally posted by Scoots:
Bill Polian said a max of 3 games for Aldon.

If you can run a 4.3 AND diagnose the play in 1/1000 of a second you will get a tackle for a loss, if you run a 4.8 and diagnose the play in 1/1000 of a second you get a tackle for a short gain. It's not that speed is irrelevant, it's just that it's not the most relevant element of playing the position. I was a slow ILB who loved contact, but I also know that even when I did everything right there were some plays I couldn't make by just a tiny bit ... had I been 2 inches taller or with 4 inch longer arms or just a tiny bit faster I would have made that play. The 49ers have 2 ILBs who diagnose the play VERY quickly and who have good size and speed ... the standard is VERY VERY VERY high for ILB play here and Borland is smaller, shorter armed, and slower than is optimal. Anybody denying it matters at all have not played the game.

He did win defensive player of the year in the Big 10, 3rd rd pick seemed about right for him. His floor is a very good backup and special teamer and his ceiling is a Zach Thomas type of player.
I never said Borland wouldn't be a good player, just that the reason people are expressing concern is that he doesn't fit in the optimal Height/Speed windows and that does hamper his best possible performance. To repeat, I didn't say he would be bad, but I did say he can't be as good as someone taller/faster/longer armed can be. Borland's ceiling is lower to start with.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
He did win defensive player of the year in the Big 10, 3rd rd pick seemed about right for him. His floor is a very good backup and special teamer and his ceiling is a Zach Thomas type of player.

And the defensive player of the year in the SEC (a better conference than the Big 10) got a favor to be drafted in the 7th round. Why did he drop so far? Not because of his stated preferences, but because he is slow, small, and not explosive enough.

College awards often have little to nothing to do with pro performance. Who is the last Heisman winner (the best overall player in ALL the conferences together) to be a great pro?

Again, not a bad player, could be very good for the 49ers ... but his size limits him.
I posted the T-rex Trying all in fun. I read that book and am in tears within a few pages.



As for Borland many a Packer fan was pissed we got him. Rumor is the Packers had their eye on Borland and Abbrederis and in that order.

I am, as with any draft pick, in a wait and see mode. I don't place undue expectations on any rookie, nor do I downplay their abilities or potential. I prefer to wait and see what they do before forming an opinion.
lol at all the T-Rex stuff
Okay I've read this whole convoluted thread. The points boil down to this:

His strength is instinct small space quickness, causes fumbles, and hits with determination.
His weakness is he is short and short armed while also lacking speed of our starters.

Arguments for pick: Highly touted inside run stuffer, can be used in ST and Goal line situations right now plus insurance if one of the two big guys go down with injury.

Arguments against the pick: Not starting on our team ever picked too highly, unlikely to be useful in any area outside of 3 and 2 or less downs.

My point of view is this: None of our draft picks were drafted to replace a starter and none of them will. We have the most talented team in the league imo. So we drafted for depth at every position and hope some of these guys can maybe make game day squad. Borland is not ever going to replace willis or bowman but he is quality player that can actually play blitz and play either interior lb in a pinch day 1. While yes we could of got your favorite player on the board here instead, we are playing with house money and draft the for development. ILB is one of our thinnest spots and guess what we got skov too.
[ Edited by Need4Speed on Jul 14, 2014 at 8:56 PM ]
Originally posted by Scoots:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
He did win defensive player of the year in the Big 10, 3rd rd pick seemed about right for him. His floor is a very good backup and special teamer and his ceiling is a Zach Thomas type of player.

And the defensive player of the year in the SEC (a better conference than the Big 10) got a favor to be drafted in the 7th round. Why did he drop so far? Not because of his stated preferences, but because he is slow, small, and not explosive enough.

College awards often have little to nothing to do with pro performance. Who is the last Heisman winner (the best overall player in ALL the conferences together) to be a great pro?

Again, not a bad player, could be very good for the 49ers ... but his size limits him.

I feel ya with the Micheal Sam comparison, Borland was the 2nd ranked ILB according to CBS Sports and Sam was 15th. Broland tied the FBS record with the most career forced fumbles. I hope he makes some plays this year either as a ILB or special teams, all SF did was draft a good football player.

as far as Heisman winners RGIII, Newton, Palmer, George, Woodson, Sanders, Brown, Allen etc all are having or had pretty good careers
  • Phil
  • Member
  • Posts: 2,122
In the main draft thread I expressed my dislike of this pick and I was correct. He's too small, not a top NFL caliber talent (although he has an inhuman dedication to the game) and we don't have a long term spot for him. As I said Wilhoite will fill in while Bowman is out and Boreland will be a special teams player at most. We should have picked up an OL, NT or back-up QB in this spot or used the pick to move up in the first round to get a true CB. Which brings me to the Ward pick. I expressed my dislike of that pick and was pounced upon by the sharks in webzone....tisk stisk! Pretty much as I said he's too small and the majority of his skill set is at the safety position. I said teams will move their big guys to the slot and exploit this guy and that's exactly what happened. My desire was to move up in the first or second round for a true CB. His size could be overcome but his skillset is more in line for the safety position and we had already brought in Bethea (who is working out quite well). The pick made no sense to me and it still doesn't but hopefully Ward will be played as a backup safety and learn under Bethea- hopefully his confidence isn't ruined in the process while they're playing him in the slot, and I hope that stops now. Put Cox in.

I liked the Lynch pick, defended his so called "off field" issues and attitude. Didn't like the Hyde pick but thank god we picked him up since Hunter was injured but if Hunter wasn't injured the pick would make no sense and they obviously didn't know Hunter was going to be injured so..... Still not sure about the Thomas pick- how many of the injured players we've picked are up and playing and making contributions? Perhaps we should hold off this strategy in 2015? Didn't like the Ellington pick because I wanted a WR in the second round (CB in the first). I really thought this team, since Crabtree will probably walk, should have gone after Jordan Mathews, Allen Robinson or Cody Latimer. Even if Crabtree walks or not, now that we picked Ellington, I don't see him being much more than a 3rd WR and with Boldin aging we're going to have issues at the WR position in 2015 if we don't resign Crabs. 2014 was the year to address this with the loaded WR draft. The Borland pick had a hand in messing this up. I think we're all going to realize the 2014 draft wasn't as "genius" as some of us made it out to be. I still have a chip on my shoulder from all the back handed insults thrown my way on draft day....Hopefully Hyde ends up being the next Gore and hopefully Ward excels at the safety position (whenever that would be?) and hopefully Thomas comes in and kicks tail all over the place and hopefully I'm wrong about Ellington being a good no3 WR at best but unfortunately I don't think i was wrong about the Ward/Borland picks. Oh well.
Originally posted by Phil:
In the main draft thread I expressed my dislike of this pick and I was correct. He's too small, not a top NFL caliber talent (although he has an inhuman dedication to the game) and we don't have a long term spot for him. As I said Wilhoite will fill in while Bowman is out and Boreland will be a special teams player at most. We should have picked up an OL, NT or back-up QB in this spot or used the pick to move up in the first round to get a true CB. Which brings me to the Ward pick. I expressed my dislike of that pick and was pounced upon by the sharks in webzone....tisk stisk! Pretty much as I said he's too small and the majority of his skill set is at the safety position. I said teams will move their big guys to the slot and exploit this guy and that's exactly what happened. My desire was to move up in the first or second round for a true CB. His size could be overcome but his skillset is more in line for the safety position and we had already brought in Bethea (who is working out quite well). The pick made no sense to me and it still doesn't but hopefully Ward will be played as a backup safety and learn under Bethea- hopefully his confidence isn't ruined in the process while they're playing him in the slot, and I hope that stops now. Put Cox in.

I liked the Lynch pick, defended his so called "off field" issues and attitude. Didn't like the Hyde pick but thank god we picked him up since Hunter was injured but if Hunter wasn't injured the pick would make no sense and they obviously didn't know Hunter was going to be injured so..... Still not sure about the Thomas pick- how many of the injured players we've picked are up and playing and making contributions? Perhaps we should hold off this strategy in 2015? Didn't like the Ellington pick because I wanted a WR in the second round (CB in the first). I really thought this team, since Crabtree will probably walk, should have gone after Jordan Mathews, Allen Robinson or Cody Latimer. Even if Crabtree walks or not, now that we picked Ellington, I don't see him being much more than a 3rd WR and with Boldin aging we're going to have issues at the WR position in 2015 if we don't resign Crabs. 2014 was the year to address this with the loaded WR draft. The Borland pick had a hand in messing this up. I think we're all going to realize the 2014 draft wasn't as "genius" as some of us made it out to be. I still have a chip on my shoulder from all the back handed insults thrown my way on draft day....Hopefully Hyde ends up being the next Gore and hopefully Ward excels at the safety position (whenever that would be?) and hopefully Thomas comes in and kicks tail all over the place and hopefully I'm wrong about Ellington being a good no3 WR at best but unfortunately I don't think i was wrong about the Ward/Borland picks. Oh well.

Even if hunter didn't get hurt, I'm glad we grabbed Hyde. Hunter is going to be a FA next year and James is a bust. It is WAY to early to write off Borland and Ward. There is no point in whining about a rookie not replacing a solid backup inside linebacker. Just because he didn't replace Wilhoite in the first four games of his career, does not mean he is confined to special teams.
Originally posted by Phil:
In the main draft thread I expressed my dislike of this pick and I was correct. He's too small, not a top NFL caliber talent (although he has an inhuman dedication to the game) and we don't have a long term spot for him. As I said Wilhoite will fill in while Bowman is out and Boreland will be a special teams player at most. We should have picked up an OL, NT or back-up QB in this spot or used the pick to move up in the first round to get a true CB. Which brings me to the Ward pick. I expressed my dislike of that pick and was pounced upon by the sharks in webzone....tisk stisk! Pretty much as I said he's too small and the majority of his skill set is at the safety position. I said teams will move their big guys to the slot and exploit this guy and that's exactly what happened. My desire was to move up in the first or second round for a true CB. His size could be overcome but his skillset is more in line for the safety position and we had already brought in Bethea (who is working out quite well). The pick made no sense to me and it still doesn't but hopefully Ward will be played as a backup safety and learn under Bethea- hopefully his confidence isn't ruined in the process while they're playing him in the slot, and I hope that stops now. Put Cox in.

I liked the Lynch pick, defended his so called "off field" issues and attitude. Didn't like the Hyde pick but thank god we picked him up since Hunter was injured but if Hunter wasn't injured the pick would make no sense and they obviously didn't know Hunter was going to be injured so..... Still not sure about the Thomas pick- how many of the injured players we've picked are up and playing and making contributions? Perhaps we should hold off this strategy in 2015? Didn't like the Ellington pick because I wanted a WR in the second round (CB in the first). I really thought this team, since Crabtree will probably walk, should have gone after Jordan Mathews, Allen Robinson or Cody Latimer. Even if Crabtree walks or not, now that we picked Ellington, I don't see him being much more than a 3rd WR and with Boldin aging we're going to have issues at the WR position in 2015 if we don't resign Crabs. 2014 was the year to address this with the loaded WR draft. The Borland pick had a hand in messing this up. I think we're all going to realize the 2014 draft wasn't as "genius" as some of us made it out to be. I still have a chip on my shoulder from all the back handed insults thrown my way on draft day....Hopefully Hyde ends up being the next Gore and hopefully Ward excels at the safety position (whenever that would be?) and hopefully Thomas comes in and kicks tail all over the place and hopefully I'm wrong about Ellington being a good no3 WR at best but unfortunately I don't think i was wrong about the Ward/Borland picks. Oh well.
Agree with almost everything you wrote, even the bitterness expressed at your treatment, if it was as bad as you say. If it helps, I wasn't one of those who gave you a hard time, since I shared most of the same sentiments. However, I do feel, now that these guys are on the team, they should be given some time to develop. You sometimes have to wonder though, that with all that football knowledge and experience, and supposed acumen, that GM's and coaches have (not just on the 9'ers), that they can misfire as badly as some do; even the best (Walsh made some mistakes as well).
Four weeks into the season.. I'd say you guys are jumping the gun on "internet forum" redemption.
Originally posted by Scoots:
Nobody is questioning Borlands mind or heart. The issue is his speed, height and length limit the fringe plays he can make. He can kill them when he can get there but his ability to get there isn't optimal and on this team, like on VERY few teams in NFL history the standard for ILB play is extraordinarily high.

Don't agree Scoots! Many of the criticisms of Borland were said of Bowman during his draft year and he's only an inch shorter than NaVorro. From his draft profile (just a few things that stood out to me):

  • At prep school (HS) Borland lettered in Football, Basketball, Track and Field and Tennis.
  • Good leaper.
  • Quick to fill downhill (see goal-line play vs. Ohio State when he stuck RB Carlos Hyde in the hole and drove him back).

Not sure he's going to be in the Willis Bowman league, but not many are. We have the best MLBs in the NFL and it's hard to judge fairly against them.
  • xcfan
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,785
borland is short but he has a body that can play. it's not his size that's the problem--it's his speed and suddenness. he's a quick reactor, so his slowness really only shows in the open field. i think he'll become an asset in the future. he aint luke kueckly.

as for the ward pick, you can see that he's a player without a position. he will never be big and stout enough to be a starting safety. he doesn't move like a natural corner, but i think he's far from a finished product at the slot. he may be able to learn quite a bit, and become a tough guy for receivers to deal with. but, who knows if that will happen. baalke's been known to get beer goggles for a player, while the rest of us are going, "huh?' aj jenkins.
Way too early to pass judgment.

Based on how he played in college and since he's already on the team, I feel he'll need some coaching and he'll be fine.

How good??

But like dtg_niner said - Many panned the Bowman pick and he turned out damn good.

Only time will tell.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He will fill the spot while Bowman is recovering. He's super instinctive. A bowling ball. A tackling machine. Very underestimated. A great pick IMO.

Had to bump this. Lots of folks have knocked you from time to time, myself included. You were on it with Borland.