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MadDog49er Best Player Available Top 100 Board Tuesday May 6

No offense but I think its pretty crazy that you downgrade Bridgewater because of a 20 wonderlic as opposed to his awful pro day. 20 isnt great but it certainly isnt stupid level and I think its overrated anyway. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly scored a 15 and they seemed to do enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

I think the bigger isssue with Bridgewater is without question the Pro Day. He was nervous and erratic and the lack of arm strength really showed. It is this, and not some wonderlic, that will likely push him into round 2.
As for Kelvin Benjamin, did you watch his film?

The vague, speculative stuff about his work ethic I can almost understand. But to question his movement skills? He ran a 4.61 at 240 pounds, and his 20-yard shuttle was only .13 seconds off the time posted by Mike Evans. He also consistently ran by and around Louchiez Purifoy and a few other talented Florida DBs, not to mention everyone else who tried to cover him this past year (Bashaud Breeland included).

Curious as to where you're seeing such a lack of movement skills that it would render him a backup TE.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
No offense but I think its pretty crazy that you downgrade Bridgewater because of a 20 wonderlic as opposed to his awful pro day. 20 isnt great but it certainly isnt stupid level and I think its overrated anyway. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly scored a 15 and they seemed to do enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

I think the bigger isssue with Bridgewater is without question the Pro Day. He was nervous and erratic and the lack of arm strength really showed. It is this, and not some wonderlic, that will likely push him into round 2.

Agreed. The Wonderlic is essentially useless.

Terry Bradshaw, Randall Cunningham, and Steve McNair scored 15 as well.

Donovan McNabb scored 14.
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Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
No offense but I think its pretty crazy that you downgrade Bridgewater because of a 20 wonderlic as opposed to his awful pro day. 20 isnt great but it certainly isnt stupid level and I think its overrated anyway. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly scored a 15 and they seemed to do enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

I think the bigger isssue with Bridgewater is without question the Pro Day. He was nervous and erratic and the lack of arm strength really showed. It is this, and not some wonderlic, that will likely push him into round 2.

Agreed. The Wonderlic is essentially useless.

Terry Bradshaw, Randall Cunningham, and Steve McNair scored 15 as well.

Donovan McNabb scored 14.

The Wonderlic isn't useless, but it's also not definitive. Any QB measurement will have it's outliers that outperform or underperform their numbers. There's a reason why aptitude tests such as the Wonderlic exist and have value as one measurement out of many to determine potential success or failure.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by yoshi:
I admire your decisiveness revealed by not putting Kelvin Benjamin in even top 100. This isn't a sarcasm. Honestly I still cannot completely remove this lazy lady from my wish list.
Have a nice dream.


I don't like Benjamin at all, and think he will be one of the great overhyped busts in the draft. He simply cannot move well enough on the field to play WR in the NFL, and will be converted to TE in a few years. I could be completely 100% wrong, but feel very strong in my opinion that he is going to struggle. I have a 5th round grade on him, simply on the concept that he could become a serviceable backup TE with red zone ability at the next level.

Benjamin's not the fastest WR, but he did play for a quality program and had success. He's got good size, excellent wingspan and hands, moderate speed, and the ability to use his body and wingspan to win matchups against DBs and LBs.

His weaknesses in cutting and changing direction appear to be flaws that could be corrected through the right coaching.

I can understand why he might not be rated as a top ten pick, but most have him ranked as a late first rounder. Personally, I would consider him in the late second, early third, if he's still available.

So, how much of your harsh, 5th round ranking is influenced by what appears to be interest by the Niner's?

You setting this up so you can be--surprise, surprise--hyper-critical of Baalke if the Niners take this guy even in the second or third rounds?
[ Edited by oldninerdude on May 7, 2014 at 10:21 AM ]
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by yoshi:
I admire your decisiveness revealed by not putting Kelvin Benjamin in even top 100. This isn't a sarcasm. Honestly I still cannot completely remove this lazy lady from my wish list.
Have a nice dream.


I don't like Benjamin at all, and think he will be one of the great overhyped busts in the draft. He simply cannot move well enough on the field to play WR in the NFL, and will be converted to TE in a few years. I could be completely 100% wrong, but feel very strong in my opinion that he is going to struggle. I have a 5th round grade on him, simply on the concept that he could become a serviceable backup TE with red zone ability at the next level.

Benjamin's not the fastest WR, but he did play for a quality program and had success. He's got good size, excellent wingspan and hands, moderate speed, and the ability to use his body and wingspan to win matchups against DBs and LBs.

His weaknesses in cutting and changing direction appear to be flaws that could be corrected through the right coaching.

I can understand why he might not be rated as a top ten pick, but most have him ranked as a late first rounder. Personally, I would consider him in the late second, early third, if he's still available.

So, how much of your harsh, 5th round ranking is influenced by what appears to be interest by the Niner's?

You setting this up so you can be--surprise, surprise--hyper-critical of Baalke if the Niners take this guy even in the second or third rounds?

Benjamin is just such a weird athlete. He's not quick enough (I'd argue) for his size to be as big a factor in the NFL as it was in college. Really the question we need to be asking for the next 4-5 years is which receiver presents the biggest challenge to Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas?

A) Beckham
B) Cooks
C) Lee
D) Benjamin
E) Other
[ Edited by bzborow1 on May 7, 2014 at 2:35 PM ]
Interesting that Stanford's David Yankey is missing from your 100... oversight? or just don't like him?
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Interesting that Stanford's David Yankey is missing from your 100... oversight? or just don't like him?

That is interesting. Everyone has been dropping him on their boards recently. Last time I checked on CBS draft scout they had him around 140.
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
As for Kelvin Benjamin, did you watch his film?

The vague, speculative stuff about his work ethic I can almost understand. But to question his movement skills? He ran a 4.61 at 240 pounds, and his 20-yard shuttle was only .13 seconds off the time posted by Mike Evans. He also consistently ran by and around Louchiez Purifoy and a few other talented Florida DBs, not to mention everyone else who tried to cover him this past year (Bashaud Breeland included).

Curious as to where you're seeing such a lack of movement skills that it would render him a backup TE.

I know it's just one game, but his Florida tape was great. And he blew past Purifoy a time or two.
People say he's not a deep threat but he average 18+ yards per game and came through with crucial catches all season. I'm not draft analyst but outside of his weight (would prefer if he was closer to 230), I really don't understand how he's fallen so far on so may draft boards.

I feel like I'm the only one, but I'd love it if we drafted him at 30 or, if we trade back, early in the 2nd round. I think he'd help with a lot of our RZ issues.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
No offense but I think its pretty crazy that you downgrade Bridgewater because of a 20 wonderlic as opposed to his awful pro day. 20 isnt great but it certainly isnt stupid level and I think its overrated anyway. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly scored a 15 and they seemed to do enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

I think the bigger isssue with Bridgewater is without question the Pro Day. He was nervous and erratic and the lack of arm strength really showed. It is this, and not some wonderlic, that will likely push him into round 2.

To add to this, I don't think his Wonderlic surprised anyone. Peyton Manning is the perfect example of a player who has a brilliant football mind without having a high Wonderlic. Bridgewater will have to convince teams he will put the time in to learning the game like Manning did and continues to do and then the Wonderlic isn't an issue. Having said that, Manning's dedication to football is pretty unique, but I think Bridgewater will put in a lot of time watching tape and learning to read defenses. He clearly put in some time doing this in college. No one thought Bridgewater would blow the Wonderlic out of the water but his pro day was terrible and unexpected.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Interesting that Stanford's David Yankey is missing from your 100... oversight? or just don't like him?

That name makes me want to vomit. I've been railing on him all season long. He used to be one of the 2 or 3 most overrated players in the draft IMO.

Big lower-body strength issues.
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Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Charley Casserly raised this point last night on NFLN with regard to the Clowney vs. Mack debate...

Imagine Jadeveon Clowney playing in the MAC.

If Houston drafts Clowney and stands him up on the outside in their 3-4, he will be an absolute force immediately. 13.5 sacks as a sophomore in the SEC is nothing to sneeze at, and he was already getting doubled and chipped consistently then. The way teams schemed around him this year was unlike anything I've ever seen in college football.

Is this true that teams were scheming around Clowney? If that's true that could be a big reason for his lack of production. Clowney was impressive his first couple years.

I do agree that Mack who was very productive is also a big risk because he played in a much weaker division.

Clowney's attitude concerns me. If it's true teams were scheming around him or that we had some injury issues, it would be pretty scary to have him opposite JJ Watt.
Originally posted by CornellU49er:
You have Robinson a little higher than most and listed him among the Niner's potential picks at #30. He seems to be getting less attention than most of the other potential 1st and 2nd round receivers in this class. I'm curious to hear your evaluation of him.

Terrific competitor, never quits, very athletic, with explosiveness. Doesn't have deep speed, but will go across the middle, will outjump CB's, and fight for balls. Was stuck in PSU hell this past year, and had shaky QB play around him, but still produced at a high level.

Has a lot of grit and heart....and is only 20 years old.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
That is interesting. Everyone has been dropping him on their boards recently. Last time I checked on CBS draft scout they had him around 140.

Don't like him. Simply unathletic to play at a high level in the NFL. Posted really slow forty time at combine, combined with not much strength in the press. Slow and weak not the characteristics you want at guard. Thought he was a bit overrated at Stanford.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Benjamin's not the fastest WR, but he did play for a quality program and had success. He's got good size, excellent wingspan and hands, moderate speed, and the ability to use his body and wingspan to win matchups against DBs and LBs.

His weaknesses in cutting and changing direction appear to be flaws that could be corrected through the right coaching.

I can understand why he might not be rated as a top ten pick, but most have him ranked as a late first rounder. Personally, I would consider him in the late second, early third, if he's still available.

So, how much of your harsh, 5th round ranking is influenced by what appears to be interest by the Niner's?

You setting this up so you can be--surprise, surprise--hyper-critical of Baalke if the Niners take this guy even in the second or third rounds?

Whatever team picks him will receive my scorn. I don't see the team looking at him. Nothing more than a plodding WR who runs sloppy routes, which you can get away with in college, but not in the NFL.