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30th Pick: Whoa! Both Brandin Cooks and AND Jason Verrett are available. What do you do?

30th Pick: Whoa! Both Brandin Cooks and AND Jason Verrett are available. What do you do?

  • buck
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
True. If the team wants to anchor their center position,....

That is one gargantuan IF.
  • buck
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:
It's not just you. He really does not play to his timed speed. He's obviously not slow. He is overall a decently fast player, likely in the mid-to-upper 4.4 range on the field, but he is a lot like AJ Jenkins in the sense he simply does not have that breakaway-leave-the-defenders-in-the-dust speed that players like Watkins, Moncrief, and Bryant have. Those players timed in the low 4.4s, but on the field you can tell they are faster. I'd take the first two in that list over Cooks.

Was the problem with Jenkins that he did not have break-away-leave-the-defenders-in-the-dust speed?

I think that Cooks is fast enough to stretch the field, and even more importantly he would be an actual threat--not just a decoy.

Cooks has more experience running a complete route tree than either Moncrief or Bryant.

I have nothing against Moncrief or Bryant, but in the last two years, Cooks really did have excellent production.
His lack of playing speed did seem to impact his ability to play football.

Cooks, Brandin--25 games, 195 receptions, 2881 yards, 21 TDs. Average of 14.77 yards a catch and 115.24 yards a game.
Moncrief, Donte 26 games, 125 receptions, 1917 yards, 16 TDs. Average of 15.34 yards a catch and 73.73 yards a game.
Bryant, Martavis--23 games, 52 receptions, 1133 yards, 11 TDs. Average of 21.79 yards a catch and 49.26 yards a game.

Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
It's not just you. He really does not play to his timed speed. He's obviously not slow. He is overall a decently fast player, likely in the mid-to-upper 4.4 range on the field, but he is a lot like AJ Jenkins in the sense he simply does not have that breakaway-leave-the-defenders-in-the-dust speed that players like Watkins, Moncrief, and Bryant have. Those players timed in the low 4.4s, but on the field you can tell they are faster. I'd take the first two in that list over Cooks.

Was the problem with Jenkins that he did not have break-away-leave-the-defenders-in-the-dust speed?

I think that Cooks is fast enough to stretch the field, and even more importantly he would be an actual threat--not just a decoy.

Cooks has more experience running a complete route tree than either Moncrief or Bryant.

I have nothing against Moncrief or Bryant, but in the last two years, Cooks really did have excellent production.
His lack of playing speed did seem to impact his ability to play football.

Cooks, Brandin--25 games, 195 receptions, 2881 yards, 21 TDs. Average of 14.77 yards a catch and 115.24 yards a game.
Moncrief, Donte 26 games, 125 receptions, 1917 yards, 16 TDs. Average of 15.34 yards a catch and 73.73 yards a game.
Bryant, Martavis--23 games, 52 receptions, 1133 yards, 11 TDs. Average of 21.79 yards a catch and 49.26 yards a game.


Just look at Martavis Bryant's stats, almost 22 yards per catch, considerably more than Cooks, that is indicative of a deep threat wideout.

Just to give you an idea how impressive that is, in the NFL last season, for all WRs with over 1,000 receiving yards, the highest average yards/catch is 18.9 yards which was chalked up by Josh Gordon who incidentally was also the No. 1 WR leading in total yards with 1,646 yards.
[ Edited by Rascal on May 1, 2014 at 3:36 AM ]
  • buck
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Originally posted by Rascal:
Just look at Martavis Bryant's stats, almost 22 yards per catch, considerably more than Cooks, that is indicative of a deep threat wideout.

Just to give you an idea how impressive that is, in the NFL last season, for all WRs with over 1,000 receiving yards, the highest average yards/catch is 18.9 yards which was chalked up by Josh Gordon who incidentally was also the No. 1 WR leading in total yards with 1,646 yards.

I have nothing against Bryant and his average per catch is very good. It is impressive. However, comparing what he did in college to the receivers in the NFL with over 1,000 yards receiving, and Josh Gordon in particular, does not seem to a very apt comparison.

Other than is yards per catch, his stats are not that impressive when compared to Cook's.
My guess is that Cooks has a better overall game, that Cooks will adapt to the NFL quicker, and that Cooks is fast enough to stretch the field.

But, I will admit that I am hardly an expert.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Timdiz:
Is it me or does Cooks doesn't really look all that fast on tape? I haven't a single play where's taken he's taken a bomb to the house. I know he was one of the fastest at the combine, but his game speed isn't all that impressive to me.

Combine = 4.33.

Game speed = 4.50.

Totally overrated guy.

Not a fan either, rather have OBJ if we're gonna go small receiver. I personally hope we land either Matthews or Moncrief.
Originally posted by buck:
I have nothing against Bryant and his average per catch is very good. It is impressive. However, comparing what he did in college to the receivers in the NFL with over 1,000 yards receiving, and Josh Gordon in particular, does not seem to a very apt comparison.

Other than is yards per catch, his stats are not that impressive when compared to Cook's.
My guess is that Cooks has a better overall game, that Cooks will adapt to the NFL quicker, and that Cooks is fast enough to stretch the field.

But, I will admit that I am hardly an expert.

I think the point I was trying to make is yards/catch is something you need to hone in on a bit more if you are looking for a vertical deep threat wideout. Cooks may run better routes, but as for his stats you will also need to take into account Bryant wasn't Clemson's No. 1 receiver cos that was Sammy Watkins as we all know, so naturally he was targeted most with 101 receptions. If you look at Bryant's 2012 stats, he might only had 10 receptions, but his yards/catch was even higher at over 30 yards. The problem I have with Cooks is like some others have mentioned is he doesn't play his 40 speed, at least that's what he looks to me on tape. 22 yards per catch is pretty high, I admit I am yet to look through the college football stats, but I think is considered high. So, like I said, if we are after a guy who can stretch the field, Bryant is definitely one of such candidates. Another prospect I like is Paul Richardson with 16.2 yards per catch.
Trade up to #31 with some of our other picks and grab both.
Turn in the draft card with both of their names on it. Shhh Roger Goodell will never know
Trade up and get BOTH!!!
  • buck
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Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by buck:
I have nothing against Bryant and his average per catch is very good. It is impressive. However, comparing what he did in college to the receivers in the NFL with over 1,000 yards receiving, and Josh Gordon in particular, does not seem to a very apt comparison.

Other than is yards per catch, his stats are not that impressive when compared to Cook's.
My guess is that Cooks has a better overall game, that Cooks will adapt to the NFL quicker, and that Cooks is fast enough to stretch the field.

But, I will admit that I am hardly an expert.

I think the point I was trying to make is yards/catch is something you need to hone in on a bit more if you are looking for a vertical deep threat wideout. Cooks may run better routes, but as for his stats you will also need to take into account Bryant wasn't Clemson's No. 1 receiver cos that was Sammy Watkins as we all know, so naturally he was targeted most with 101 receptions. If you look at Bryant's 2012 stats, he might only had 10 receptions, but his yards/catch was even higher at over 30 yards. The problem I have with Cooks is like some others have mentioned is he doesn't play his 40 speed, at least that's what he looks to me on tape. 22 yards per catch is pretty high, I admit I am yet to look through the college football stats, but I think is considered high. So, like I said, if we are after a guy who can stretch the field, Bryant is definitely one of such candidates. Another prospect I like is Paul Richardson with 16.2 yards per catch.

The fact that Bryant was not the number one receiver at Clemson can cut both ways.

The defenses could have focused on Watson and not on Bryant. We do not what the results would have been, if Bryant have been the primary receiver at Clemson. Maybe, he would have blossomed. Maybe, he would have been shut down. We do not know.

But, we do know that Cooks was the number one receiver at Oregon St, and that Cooks was not shut down.

I think that Cooks is fast enough to stretch the field.

I would not mind drafting Bryant. As I said I have no problem with him. I think that he has potential.
I think that we could get him in third, maybe the second round.
[ Edited by buck on May 1, 2014 at 7:04 AM ]
Originally posted by buck:
The fact that Bryant was not the number one receiver at Clemson can cut both ways.

The defenses could have focused on Watson and not on Bryant. We do not what the results would have been, if Bryant have been the primary receiver at Clemson. Maybe, he would have blossomed. Maybe, he would have been shut down. We do not know.

But, we do know that Cooks was the number one receiver at Oregon St, and that Cooks was not shut down.

I think that Cooks is fast enough to stretch the field.

I would not mind drafting Bryant. As I said I have no problem with him. I think that he has potential.
I think that we could get him in third, maybe the second round.

If both Cooks and Bryant can stretch the field in the context of a deep threat wideout which we have been discussing here, then I would rather take a top corner in the 1st, then may be Bryant or Richardson as we also discussed in the Beckham thread as that deep threat WR. But, I would also take a 2nd WR as a red zone target in the mid rounds such as a Brandon Coleman in late 3rd or 4th.
Originally posted by bigwads:
Originally posted by Timdiz:
Is it me or does Cooks doesn't really look all that fast on tape? I haven't a single play where's taken he's taken a bomb to the house. I know he was one of the fastest at the combine, but his game speed isn't all that impressive to me.

Except he's always open...not a coincidence.

No dog in this fight, but this all the way. The 40-yard dash has got to be the most overrated metric in all of pro sports. Fast guys are a dime a dozen. Guys that can run proper routes and catch the freaking ball are far more valuable.

For every Larry Fitzgerald or Anquan Boldin I can name 20 "burners" that aren't worth a damn come game day.
Originally posted by Rascal:
you will also need to take into account Bryant wasn't Clemson's No. 1 receiver cos that was Sammy Watkins

I was going to say this as well. Its hard to judge Cooks/Moncrief/Bryant because of the 3, Bryant is the only #2 receiver, so he probably got a lot of 1:1 coverage with Watkins being doubled on the other side.
  • buck
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If we are given the choice between Brandin Cooks and Jason Verrett, I am not sure who we should, or would, take.

This draft just has me
Originally posted by buck:
If we are given the choice between Brandin Cooks and Jason Verrett, I am not sure who we should, or would, take.

This draft just has me

The problem is the chances are you will probably have to trade up to get Cooks according to most analysts and mock drafts. Mike Mayock even believes 6 WRs will go in the 1st and the first four are widely regarded to be Watkins, Evans, Beckham and Cooks. As for Jason Verrett ? Hmm, may be not. The question is how many CBs will go before the 30th ? Will say 5 CBs all be gone before the 30th, namely Gilbert, Roby, Dennard, Fuller and Verrett ? I think there is a very good chance one of those 5 will be available at 30th, may be not Gilbert, may be not Dennard, but one of the other 3 perhaps and I am fine with that.