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What player in the 2014 draft is most like Percy Harvin, Desean Jackson or Tavon Austin?

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
It's between 6-10 pounds for every inch and higher when you're talking professional athletes who put on more muscle mass than the average person. Definitely not only 4 pounds. For women it's roughly 5 pounds per inch. LOL Hilton is not more solid than Archer. Give Archer another couple inches and he's packing on 15 more pounds at least.

Oh and Benjamin isn't fat just because he's 240 lol. By that logic, Calvin Johnson is fat as well. Benjamin is fat with a gut because his body fat % is high.

The reason for this is that athletes tend to have higher BMI's because of their extra muscle. Larger players can gain more weight per inch and maintain their BMI.

Archer's BMI at 5'8 173 is 26.3.

Hilton's BMI at 5'10 183 is also 26.3.

BMI seemed like the fairest comparison but if you just care about how thick someone is (divide weight by height), it's less than 5 pounds per inch for guys Archer and Hilton's size. It's common sense that if you scale someone up who is larger, it adds more weight per inch than scaling someone up who is smaller and it really has nothing to do with whether or not they are an athlete, but athletes tend to be larger.

Taller, heavier players can gain more weight per inch with maintaining their BMI (6'5 330 is the same BMI as 6'6 338), but there are no positions where a player would be expected to gain 10 pounds per inch. I've heard concern with Benjamin gaining weight and no longer being able to play WR - I don't think he is too heavy but it was an example to show you can't just scale players down at 10 pounds per inch.
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
It's between 6-10 pounds for every inch and higher when you're talking professional athletes who put on more muscle mass than the average person. Definitely not only 4 pounds. For women it's roughly 5 pounds per inch. LOL Hilton is not more solid than Archer. Give Archer another couple inches and he's packing on 15 more pounds at least.

Oh and Benjamin isn't fat just because he's 240 lol. By that logic, Calvin Johnson is fat as well. Benjamin is fat with a gut because his body fat % is high.

The reason for this is that athletes tend to have higher BMI's because of their extra muscle. Larger players can gain more weight per inch and maintain their BMI.

Archer's BMI at 5'8 173 is 26.3.

Hilton's BMI at 5'10 183 is also 26.3.

BMI seemed like the fairest comparison but if you just care about how thick someone is (divide weight by height), it's less than 5 pounds per inch for guys Archer and Hilton's size. It's common sense that if you scale someone up who is larger, it adds more weight per inch than scaling someone up who is smaller and it really has nothing to do with whether or not they are an athlete, but athletes tend to be larger.

Taller, heavier players can gain more weight per inch with maintaining their BMI (6'5 330 is the same BMI as 6'6 338), but there are no positions where a player would be expected to gain 10 pounds per inch. I've heard concern with Benjamin gaining weight and no longer being able to play WR - I don't think he is too heavy but it was an example to show you can't just scale players down at 10 pounds per inch.

I said roughly 10 pounds per inch originally just to give a picture of around where Archer would be if he were a couple inches taller. That number was too large, you're right. For the average male, it's about 6 pounds for every inch. For more muscularly fit individuals, another couple inches will pack on some more pounds than the average person. It's probably somewhere around 7-8 more pounds.

There's also a lot of other factors like body frame, bone density, width, etc. that go into how much weight someone would add. A wider person has more potential to add on muscle mass with growth in height than a more narrow person. That's one reason why BMI is a very useless measurement. All it does is factor in mass and height. Also by it's standards, many professional athletes are overweight.
Brandin Cooks is like Percy Harvin with his size strength and athleticism but lacks Harvin's elusiveness and return ability.
Dri Archer seems like a faster and more athletic Tavon Austin with his size speed and quick bursts.
De'Anthony Thomas is the closest to Desean Jackson as a returner but not close as a receiver.

So when I compare all that together the 1 player I hope we get is Dri Archer.
But Brandin Cooks and De'Anthony Thomas would be great too.
The question is how do you classify Dri Archer apart from his special teams impressive kick return ability ? Didn't be play both RB and WR for Kent State ? So, do you grade/judge him as a RB or WR ? If you look at his clips, he can probably do both actually.
Stephon Tuitt
Originally posted by KaeperVICK_7:
Just think! When Percy Harvin was traded to the Seahawks before last years draft the Niners were in trade talks with the Vikings for him.

During the same draft it was reported that the Niners wanted to trade up to around #16 to get Tavon Austin before the Rams traded up to #8 to get him.

And just recently the Niners were trying to get Desean Jackson to sign with them after he was released from the Eagles but the Redskins signed him 1st.

So in light of all those events I ask this question to see what player in the 2014 draft is most like 1, 2 or all 3 of these players as a returner, wide receiver and scatback.

Please use facts. Thank you!

Closest Comparisons:


* Percy Harvin - Odell Beckham (LSU), Austin Franklin (NMSU)
* DeSean Jackson - Paul Richardson (Colorado), Jalen Saunders (Oklahoma)
* Tavon Austin - Dri Archer (Kent State)

Note: I don't believe Cooks compares to any of these players. At 5-10 190, he's bigger than Austin but more compactly built than the others. He also is nowhere near the dynamic return men that any of those players are.
Originally posted by Rascal:
The question is how do you classify Dri Archer apart from his special teams impressive kick return ability ? Didn't be play both RB and WR for Kent State ? So, do you grade/judge him as a RB or WR ? If you look at his clips, he can probably do both actually.

I would classify Dri Archer as a change of pace specialty RB. I classify him as that because you can place him almost anywhere on the field and he would be special and make the running game fast paced with his speed, quickness and elusiveness from that of Frank Gore and Marcus Lattimore's bust through the hole grind you up style of running. The way I can see it is having him in different spots on the field periodically to give defenses different looks. I can see having him in the backfield with the Read-Option, in two back sets, in the slot catching short passes for long gains, having him in motion across the back of the O-Line receiving hand-offs from Colin Kaepernick, on reverses, sweeps, screen plays and on fakes of them all. With his speed, quickness and elusiveness added to the Niners beastly O-Line he would threaten the second level of any defense on almost every play and give defenses nightmares in the game and in preparation for the game. Not to mention the fact that his presence alone would open up the passing game. However he wouldn't be the only answer for the Niners passing game that still has a need for a deep threat and Red-Zone target. Add a deep threat like WR's Marqise Lee and Donte Moncrief and a Red-Zone target like WR's Mike Evans and Brandon Coleman and we would be nearly unstoppable on offense.
[ Edited by KaeperVICK_7 on Apr 19, 2014 at 5:23 PM ]
Allen Robinson
Originally posted by KaeperVICK_7:
Originally posted by Rascal:
The question is how do you classify Dri Archer apart from his special teams impressive kick return ability ? Didn't be play both RB and WR for Kent State ? So, do you grade/judge him as a RB or WR ? If you look at his clips, he can probably do both actually.

I would classify Dri Archer as a change of pace specialty RB. I classify him as that because you can place him almost anywhere on the field and he would be special and make the running game fast paced with his speed, quickness and elusiveness from that of Frank Gore and Marcus Lattimore's bust through the hole grind you up style of running. The way I can see it is having him in different spots on the field periodically to give defenses different looks. I can see having him in the backfield with the Read-Option, in two back sets, in the slot catching short passes for long gains, having him in motion across the back of the O-Line receiving hand-offs from Colin Kaepernick, on reverses, sweeps, screen plays and on fakes of them all. With his speed, quickness and elusiveness added to the Niners beastly O-Line he would threaten the second level of any defense on almost every play and give defenses nightmares in the game and in preparation for the game. Not to mention the fact that his presence alone would open up the passing game. However he wouldn't be the only answer for the Niners passing game that still has a need for a deep threat and Red-Zone target. Add a deep threat like WR's Marqise Lee and Donte Moncrief and a Red-Zone target like WR's Mike Evans and Brandon Coleman and we would be nearly unstoppable on offense.

I can't agree more. The only thing I would say is I would like to add Lache Seastrunk to pair up with Lattimore as the dynamic backfield going into the future. Other than that, my choice of deep threat WR would be Martavis Bryant. I don't think you need to be small to be fast, Bryant is both fast and big. As for additional red zone targets, Mike Evans will be too costly in my opinion, Brandon Coleman could be a bargain and should worth a slight gamble who can be had in the lower rounds.
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by KaeperVICK_7:
Originally posted by Rascal:
The question is how do you classify Dri Archer apart from his special teams impressive kick return ability ? Didn't be play both RB and WR for Kent State ? So, do you grade/judge him as a RB or WR ? If you look at his clips, he can probably do both actually.

I would classify Dri Archer as a change of pace specialty RB. I classify him as that because you can place him almost anywhere on the field and he would be special and make the running game fast paced with his speed, quickness and elusiveness from that of Frank Gore and Marcus Lattimore's bust through the hole grind you up style of running. The way I can see it is having him in different spots on the field periodically to give defenses different looks. I can see having him in the backfield with the Read-Option, in two back sets, in the slot catching short passes for long gains, having him in motion across the back of the O-Line receiving hand-offs from Colin Kaepernick, on reverses, sweeps, screen plays and on fakes of them all. With his speed, quickness and elusiveness added to the Niners beastly O-Line he would threaten the second level of any defense on almost every play and give defenses nightmares in the game and in preparation for the game. Not to mention the fact that his presence alone would open up the passing game. However he wouldn't be the only answer for the Niners passing game that still has a need for a deep threat and Red-Zone target. Add a deep threat like WR's Marqise Lee and Donte Moncrief and a Red-Zone target like WR's Mike Evans and Brandon Coleman and we would be nearly unstoppable on offense.

I can't agree more. The only thing I would say is I would like to add Lache Seastrunk to pair up with Lattimore as the dynamic backfield going into the future. Other than that, my choice of deep threat WR would be Martavis Bryant. I don't think you need to be small to be fast, Bryant is both fast and big. As for additional red zone targets, Mike Evans will be too costly in my opinion, Brandon Coleman could be a bargain and should worth a slight gamble who can be had in the lower rounds.
I agree. Or maybe even another grind you up RB like Carlos Hyde or Terrance West. With that said, the only reason I would hesitate on getting 6'3 3/4" WR Martavis Bryant as a deep threat is the fact that he's not a good route runner, has inconsistent hands and is prone to making wide open drops. Besides WR Donte Moncrief is faster, is a better route runner though not that much better, has more consistent hands and at 6'2 3/8" is almost as big as WR Martavis Bryant
[ Edited by KaeperVICK_7 on Apr 23, 2014 at 11:18 AM ]
Originally posted by KaeperVICK_7:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by KaeperVICK_7:
Originally posted by Rascal:
The question is how do you classify Dri Archer apart from his special teams impressive kick return ability ? Didn't be play both RB and WR for Kent State ? So, do you grade/judge him as a RB or WR ? If you look at his clips, he can probably do both actually.

I would classify Dri Archer as a change of pace specialty RB. I classify him as that because you can place him almost anywhere on the field and he would be special and make the running game fast paced with his speed, quickness and elusiveness from that of Frank Gore and Marcus Lattimore's bust through the hole grind you up style of running. The way I can see it is having him in different spots on the field periodically to give defenses different looks. I can see having him in the backfield with the Read-Option, in two back sets, in the slot catching short passes for long gains, having him in motion across the back of the O-Line receiving hand-offs from Colin Kaepernick, on reverses, sweeps, screen plays and on fakes of them all. With his speed, quickness and elusiveness added to the Niners beastly O-Line he would threaten the second level of any defense on almost every play and give defenses nightmares in the game and in preparation for the game. Not to mention the fact that his presence alone would open up the passing game. However he wouldn't be the only answer for the Niners passing game that still has a need for a deep threat and Red-Zone target. Add a deep threat like WR's Marqise Lee and Donte Moncrief and a Red-Zone target like WR's Mike Evans and Brandon Coleman and we would be nearly unstoppable on offense.

I can't agree more. The only thing I would say is I would like to add Lache Seastrunk to pair up with Lattimore as the dynamic backfield going into the future. Other than that, my choice of deep threat WR would be Martavis Bryant. I don't think you need to be small to be fast, Bryant is both fast and big. As for additional red zone targets, Mike Evans will be too costly in my opinion, Brandon Coleman could be a bargain and should worth a slight gamble who can be had in the lower rounds.
I agree. Or maybe even another grind you up RB like Carlos Hyde or Terrance West. With that said, the only reason I would hesitate on getting 6'3 3/4" WR Martavis Bryant as a deep threat is the fact that he's not a good route runner, has inconsistent hands and is prone to making wide open drops. Besides WR Donte Moncrief is faster, is a better route runner though not that much better, has more consistent hands and at 6'2 3/8" is almost as big as WR Martavis Bryant

How do you view Jordan Matthews ? Good route runner and very consistent. The guy has huge hands at 10 3/8".
paul richardson very, very similar to desean jackson
[ Edited by sf_nicoya on Apr 23, 2014 at 2:14 PM ]
Dri Arsher is a poor mans chris johnson
Originally posted by KaeperVICK_7:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by KaeperVICK_7:
Originally posted by Rascal:
The question is how do you classify Dri Archer apart from his special teams impressive kick return ability ? Didn't be play both RB and WR for Kent State ? So, do you grade/judge him as a RB or WR ? If you look at his clips, he can probably do both actually.

I would classify Dri Archer as a change of pace specialty RB. I classify him as that because you can place him almost anywhere on the field and he would be special and make the running game fast paced with his speed, quickness and elusiveness from that of Frank Gore and Marcus Lattimore's bust through the hole grind you up style of running. The way I can see it is having him in different spots on the field periodically to give defenses different looks. I can see having him in the backfield with the Read-Option, in two back sets, in the slot catching short passes for long gains, having him in motion across the back of the O-Line receiving hand-offs from Colin Kaepernick, on reverses, sweeps, screen plays and on fakes of them all. With his speed, quickness and elusiveness added to the Niners beastly O-Line he would threaten the second level of any defense on almost every play and give defenses nightmares in the game and in preparation for the game. Not to mention the fact that his presence alone would open up the passing game. However he wouldn't be the only answer for the Niners passing game that still has a need for a deep threat and Red-Zone target. Add a deep threat like WR's Marqise Lee and Donte Moncrief and a Red-Zone target like WR's Mike Evans and Brandon Coleman and we would be nearly unstoppable on offense.

I can't agree more. The only thing I would say is I would like to add Lache Seastrunk to pair up with Lattimore as the dynamic backfield going into the future. Other than that, my choice of deep threat WR would be Martavis Bryant. I don't think you need to be small to be fast, Bryant is both fast and big. As for additional red zone targets, Mike Evans will be too costly in my opinion, Brandon Coleman could be a bargain and should worth a slight gamble who can be had in the lower rounds.
I agree. Or maybe even another grind you up RB like Carlos Hyde or Terrance West. With that said, the only reason I would hesitate on getting 6'3 3/4" WR Martavis Bryant as a deep threat is the fact that he's not a good route runner, has inconsistent hands and is prone to making wide open drops. Besides WR Donte Moncrief is faster, is a better route runner though not that much better, has more consistent hands and at 6'2 3/8" is almost as big as WR Martavis Bryant

I have been having a rethink on my WR picks. Given Kap's lack of progression reads and accuracy at times, we might want to consider a guy who really can get separation, I have gone through the film again, I believe that person could well be Paul Richardson. One, he is fast, two he is not exactly that small at 6' although somewhat light, but three his run after the catch is something else. What's your view on the guy ?
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by KaeperVICK_7:
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by KaeperVICK_7:
Originally posted by Rascal:
The question is how do you classify Dri Archer apart from his special teams impressive kick return ability ? Didn't be play both RB and WR for Kent State ? So, do you grade/judge him as a RB or WR ? If you look at his clips, he can probably do both actually.

I would classify Dri Archer as a change of pace specialty RB. I classify him as that because you can place him almost anywhere on the field and he would be special and make the running game fast paced with his speed, quickness and elusiveness from that of Frank Gore and Marcus Lattimore's bust through the hole grind you up style of running. The way I can see it is having him in different spots on the field periodically to give defenses different looks. I can see having him in the backfield with the Read-Option, in two back sets, in the slot catching short passes for long gains, having him in motion across the back of the O-Line receiving hand-offs from Colin Kaepernick, on reverses, sweeps, screen plays and on fakes of them all. With his speed, quickness and elusiveness added to the Niners beastly O-Line he would threaten the second level of any defense on almost every play and give defenses nightmares in the game and in preparation for the game. Not to mention the fact that his presence alone would open up the passing game. However he wouldn't be the only answer for the Niners passing game that still has a need for a deep threat and Red-Zone target. Add a deep threat like WR's Marqise Lee and Donte Moncrief and a Red-Zone target like WR's Mike Evans and Brandon Coleman and we would be nearly unstoppable on offense.

I can't agree more. The only thing I would say is I would like to add Lache Seastrunk to pair up with Lattimore as the dynamic backfield going into the future. Other than that, my choice of deep threat WR would be Martavis Bryant. I don't think you need to be small to be fast, Bryant is both fast and big. As for additional red zone targets, Mike Evans will be too costly in my opinion, Brandon Coleman could be a bargain and should worth a slight gamble who can be had in the lower rounds.
I agree. Or maybe even another grind you up RB like Carlos Hyde or Terrance West. With that said, the only reason I would hesitate on getting 6'3 3/4" WR Martavis Bryant as a deep threat is the fact that he's not a good route runner, has inconsistent hands and is prone to making wide open drops. Besides WR Donte Moncrief is faster, is a better route runner though not that much better, has more consistent hands and at 6'2 3/8" is almost as big as WR Martavis Bryant

How do you view Jordan Matthews ? Good route runner and very consistent. The guy has huge hands at 10 3/8".
I view Jordan Matthews as a good possession WR because I believe he can consistently make catches anywhere on the field when you need them. I also label him as a possession WR because even though he has speed he lacks a quick burst off the snap and doesn't have the true break away speed that all deep threat WR's must have. But with that said I think Jordan Matthews is going to be a good WR. Besides his cousin is WR Jerry Rice the G.O.A.T. Who would pick against him? I don't know. I just know I won't.