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The Secondary debate...how are they evaluated?

Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
I agree Gilbert is not the #1 corner (when he was bad, he was BAD!) and even with his athleticism, he doesn't warrant a #1 CB grade.

As for Dennard, I really really REALLY like him and see him as a tremendous talent. My only issue is his lack of versatility at the slot, which is why Fuller got a slightly higher grade. Also, I think we'd have to give up more draft wise for Dennard rather than Fuller, so that's why I have Fuller over Dennard.

If we snagged Dennard instead, then we would drastically need a slot guy. Possibly Purifoy/Watkins/Joyner?

Honestly I don't want to see either Fuller or Dennard playing in the slot, whatsoever. If you draft Dennard, you draft him to play him on the outside, have him man up with receivers, use his physicality to knock them off their routes and hope he progresses into a true elite #1 CB that is capable of defending on an island.

As far as slot corner goes, Verrett to me is pretty much the ideal. Joyner is a similar player but doesn't have the exact same athletic ability which allows Verrett to recover so well. He would be a good pick up in the 2nd were he still available. His approach tends to be a little different, whereas Verrett just glides across the field and simply uses his agility and coverage skills to basically shadow receivers everywhere they go, Joyner likes to be physical, beat them up a little inside, decent quickness but hips not nearly as fluid.


Beyond that, Watkins would be a nice pickup as a guy who could play the slot, in latter rounds, Vic Hampton, Nevin Lawson and Ricardo Allen are also good potential slot guys with varying degrees of ability to contribute from the get-go.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
This. People hear he's 6'0", 202 and runs a 4.35 40 and that is all they seem to hear. I see him being a solid cornerback, but not really any better than Fuller ultimately. I've liked Gilbert for a long time but still see his value as early 20's to late 1st round, no earlier than that.



I would much rather the 49ers take Verrett or Fuller then use one of their latter picks on another CB such as Watkins, and end up with two quality CB prospects than trade up for Gilbert.

For later picks, I've been hearing a ton about these 5 guys between rounds 2-5:

Loucheiz Purifoy (2nd round)
Stanley Jean-Baptiste (2nd-3rd round)
Keith McGill (3rd round)
Jaylen Watkins (3rd-4th round)
Pierre Desir (4th-5th round)

Are any of those guys a good fit for us? I know McGill/Jean-Baptiste/Desir are the "over 6'1 prototype" CBs, but does that mean they'll be good for us?
Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
For later picks, I've been hearing a ton about these 5 guys between rounds 2-5:

Loucheiz Purifoy (2nd round)
Stanley Jean-Baptiste (2nd-3rd round)
Keith McGill (3rd round)
Jaylen Watkins (3rd-4th round)
Pierre Desir (4th-5th round)

Are any of those guys a good fit for us? I know McGill/Jean-Baptiste/Desir are the "over 6'1 prototype" CBs, but does that mean they'll be good for us?

Watkins and Desir are both solid 3rd round players while Purifoy could be 4th round. Purifoy was looked at as an athlete with bad tape and then had a horrible combine. I don't think there is any chance he goes in the 2nd round anymore. Watkins is a good fit if we need a slot corner while McGill and Jean-Baptiste can be press corners. I like Phillip Gaines a lot as a developmental prospect in the 3rd-4th rounds. He's probably athletic enough to play slot corner
Originally posted by HALCIONDAZE:
Our D fense goin be weak dis year.

thanks for the input
Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
For later picks, I've been hearing a ton about these 5 guys between rounds 2-5:

Loucheiz Purifoy (2nd round)
Stanley Jean-Baptiste (2nd-3rd round)
Keith McGill (3rd round)
Jaylen Watkins (3rd-4th round)
Pierre Desir (4th-5th round)

Are any of those guys a good fit for us? I know McGill/Jean-Baptiste/Desir are the "over 6'1 prototype" CBs, but does that mean they'll be good for us?

I like Watkins, Desir, Walt Aikens, Bashaud Breeland. Not a fan of Baptiste or Purifoy.


I think Watkins would be a good fit in San Francisco either on the outside or in the slot. Desir could develop into a solid starter on the outside along with Aikens and Breeland.


Percentage of targets that were completions at various parts of the field for Fuller, Hampton, Purifoy, Baptiste and Joyner.


[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Mar 31, 2014 at 4:58 PM ]
I don't want anything to do with Roby. He's all natural ability and zero technique. His inconsistency is troubling.

As for the second-tier guys, I really like Colvin and Marcus Robertson. Those two play the ball better than most and I think they'll thrive in a high-pressure defense. They won't get beat easily and they'll quickly react to the ball.

Jean-Baptiste might be better off playing safety. I like his game though.
I looked at some scenarios where the Niners traded up and got both Fuller and Verrett, but they would have to neglect the WR upgrade to do it. I think the best option is to target Verrett early. There are other CB that can duplicate what Fuller does, but Verrett is a unique talent, IMHO.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I like Watkins, Desir, Walt Aikens, Bashaud Breeland. Not a fan of Baptiste or Purifoy.


I think Watkins would be a good fit in San Francisco either on the outside or in the slot. Desir could develop into a solid starter on the outside along with Aikens and Breeland.


Percentage of targets that were completions at various parts of the field for Fuller, Hampton, Purifoy, Baptiste and Joyner.



Where do you find these charts Phoenix?
  • buck
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Originally posted by SofaKing:
Where do you find these charts Phoenix?

CB Metrics 1

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46190/349/peshek-cb-metrics-10

CB Metrics 2

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46242/351/peshek-cb-metrics-20
Originally posted by buck:
CB Metrics 1

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46190/349/peshek-cb-metrics-10

CB Metrics 2

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46242/351/peshek-cb-metrics-20

Awesome man. Thanks
  • buck
  • Veteran
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Among the cornerbacks that we should be able to get if we wait for the draft come to us, I most want

1. Verrett
2. Pierre Desir
3. Phillip Gaines

and just to muddy the waters I would add a fourth defensive back

4. Jimmie Ward SS from Northern Illinois

Ward has cornerback-like ball skills and showed at the Senior Bowl that he can cover the slot.

Also, we have a serious need for quality depth at safety.

Among defensive backs in this draft Verrett was 2nd in passes defended per game for the last two years, Desir 3rd, Gaines 6th and Ward 8th.

These guys should improve our ability to stop the pass.
[ Edited by buck on Mar 31, 2014 at 9:11 PM ]
Well, we sure as hell need to draft some CB's. Carlos Rodgers just signed with Oakland. Meanwhile his replacement is out running over bicyclists. Lol
Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
You see Bradley Roby as a Malcolm Jenkins type? How so?

cause they both played in the horseshoe .
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
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Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Mike Mayock ranks Kyle Fuller ahead of Justin Gilbert the kid is really impressing him intrigues me

Yah, I don't know about that, Fuller is good no doubt, but Justin Gilbert is a beast!!! Mayock some times tends to fall in love with a player and create his own hype for him. Don't get me wrong Mayocks analysis is one of the best, but after listening to him a few years, you kind of get that the sense he's building a draft crush on a player. And you know what, I hope he proves me wrong and Fuller goes first....it only helps the 9ers chances of landing Gilbert.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by Olejohnnyboy:
Well, we sure as hell need to draft some CB's. Carlos Rodgers just signed with Oakland. Meanwhile his replacement is out running over bicyclists. Lol



Bagging on Culliver always cracks my ass up!!