No WR until the 3rd round

Originally posted by Andra:

What is it that the ones on right do so much better than the one on the left that you would use a 1st or 2nd round pick? Especially when you can get the guys on left in the 3rd or 4th while using your pics from the 1st and 2nd rounds on CB,DL,ILB which will not be as good in in the later rounds.

Ok first Cooks is my top overall WR in the entire draft. For a guy as small as Ellington, having a slower 10-yard split than Kelvin Benjamin is alarming. I like Ellington, but he's simply not in Cooks' class.

Matthews is the career leader in reception yardage in the SEC. He's fast, big, has long arm & big hands; he has a great attitude. Comparing him to Street is insulting.

The one comparison you have that MIGHT prove true is Bryant & Moncrief. But they're rated about the same by most people at this point. But have you ever heard Bryant speak? The guy has me me me written all over him. Moncrief is a ton more polished, seems a lot more professional & didn't have the advantage of Sammy Watkins taking the pressure off of him (or even a decent college QB). Moncrief has a much higher floor and a higher ceiling IMO.

Originally posted by VPofCarnage:

Originally posted by Andra:
What is it that the ones on right do so much better than the one on the left that you would use a 1st or 2nd round pick? Especially when you can get the guys on left in the 3rd or 4th while using your pics from the 1st and 2nd rounds on CB,DL,ILB which will not be as good in in the later rounds.

Ok first Cooks is my top overall WR in the entire draft. For a guy as small as Ellington, having a slower 10-yard split than Kelvin Benjamin is alarming. I like Ellington, but he's simply not in Cooks' class.

Matthews is the career leader in reception yardage in the SEC. He's fast, big, has long arm & big hands; he has a great attitude. Comparing him to Street is insulting.

The one comparison you have that MIGHT prove true is Bryant & Moncrief. But they're rated about the same by most people at this point. But have you ever heard Bryant speak? The guy has me me me written all over him. Moncrief is a ton more polished, seems a lot more professional & didn't have the advantage of Sammy Watkins taking the pressure off of him (or even a decent college QB). Moncrief has a much higher floor and a higher ceiling IMO.

You have Cooks over Watkins and Evans?

Originally posted by Andra:

Ellington = Cooks

Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
Ok first Cooks is my top overall WR in the entire draft. For a guy as small as Ellington, having a slower 10-yard split than Kelvin Benjamin is alarming. I like Ellington, but he's simply not in Cooks' class.

Personally I see little to no similarities between those two.
I think Ellington looks more like Beckham Jr. on tape and brings the same traits to a team. Deep threat, precise routes, soft hands, making contested catches, dangerous with the ball in their hands, KR / PR etc.
They put up almost the exact same numbers at the combine too.

Bruce Ellington 5´9 197
40 Yrd Dash 4.45
10 Yrd Dash 1.63
Bench 15
Vertical 39.5"
Broad 10´
20 Yrd Shuttle 3.95
3-Cone Drill 6.69
60 Yrd Dash 11.12

Odell Beckham Jr. 5´11 198
40 Yrd Dash 4.43
10 Yrd Dash 1.59
Bench 7
Vertical 38.5"
Broad 10´2"
20 Yrd Shuttle 3.94
3-Cone Drill 6.69
60 Yrd Dash 10.93

Originally posted by VPofCarnage:

Ok first Cooks is my top overall WR in the entire draft. For a guy as small as Ellington, having a slower 10-yard split than Kelvin Benjamin is alarming. I like Ellington, but he's simply not in Cooks' class.

Matthews is the career leader in reception yardage in the SEC. He's fast, big, has long arm & big hands; he has a great attitude. Comparing him to Street is insulting.

The one comparison you have that MIGHT prove true is Bryant & Moncrief. But they're rated about the same by most people at this point. But have you ever heard Bryant speak? The guy has me me me written all over him. Moncrief is a ton more polished, seems a lot more professional & didn't have the advantage of Sammy Watkins taking the pressure off of him (or even a decent college QB). Moncrief has a much higher floor and a higher ceiling IMO.

Cooks ht 5'10" , wt 189, bench press 16, vertical 36", 40 4.33, long jump 120", cones 6.76
Ellington ht 5'10", wt 197, bench press 15, vertical 39.5", 40 4.45, long jump 120", cones 6.69
Seems pretty even
Matthews ht 6'3", wt 212, bench press 21, vertical 35.5, 40 4.46, long jump 120", cones 6.95
Street. ht 6'3", wt 198, bench press no info, vertical 37, 40 4.55, long jump 124", cones 6.89
Sorry you were alarmed and insulted

Originally posted by DeUh:

Bruce Ellington 5�9 197
40 Yrd Dash 4.45
10 Yrd Dash 1.63
Bench 15
Vertical 39.5"
Broad 10�
20 Yrd Shuttle 3.95
3-Cone Drill 6.69
60 Yrd Dash 11.12

Odell Beckham Jr. 5�11 198
40 Yrd Dash 4.43
10 Yrd Dash 1.59
Bench 7
Vertical 38.5"
Broad 10�2"
20 Yrd Shuttle 3.94
3-Cone Drill 6.69
60 Yrd Dash 10.93

Your 10-yard split for Beckham is wrong. Beckham has a 1.50 10-yard split. I don't know where you got 1.59.

Originally posted by Andra:

Cooks ht 5'10" , wt 189, bench press 16, vertical 36", 40 4.33, long jump 120", cones 6.76
Ellington ht 5'10", wt 197, bench press 15, vertical 39.5", 40 4.45, long jump 120", cones 6.69
Seems pretty even

That seems even to you? Do you know how far an NFL receiver runs in 0.12 seconds? Far enough for separation on a long ball, and that's the difference bewtween Cooks & Elligton. I like Ellington. He's a good prospect. But he's not in Cooks' league. And Cooks' 10-yard split is 0.13 seconds slower than Cooks' 10-yard split, which says a lot about how much quicker Cooks is.

And Matthews' combine numbers are similar to Street (although Matthews' 40 was significantly better), but Matthews is a MUCH more polished receiver. It's not even close.

Originally posted by Andra:

Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
Ok first Cooks is my top overall WR in the entire draft. For a guy as small as Ellington, having a slower 10-yard split than Kelvin Benjamin is alarming. I like Ellington, but he's simply not in Cooks' class.

Matthews is the career leader in reception yardage in the SEC. He's fast, big, has long arm & big hands; he has a great attitude. Comparing him to Street is insulting.

The one comparison you have that MIGHT prove true is Bryant & Moncrief. But they're rated about the same by most people at this point. But have you ever heard Bryant speak? The guy has me me me written all over him. Moncrief is a ton more polished, seems a lot more professional & didn't have the advantage of Sammy Watkins taking the pressure off of him (or even a decent college QB). Moncrief has a much higher floor and a higher ceiling IMO.

Cooks ht 5'10" , wt 189, bench press 16, vertical 36", 40 4.33, long jump 120", cones 6.76
Ellington ht 5'10", wt 197, bench press 15, vertical 39.5", 40 4.45, long jump 120", cones 6.69
Seems pretty even
Matthews ht 6'3", wt 212, bench press 21, vertical 35.5, 40 4.46, long jump 120", cones 6.95
Street. ht 6'3", wt 198, bench press no info, vertical 37, 40 4.55, long jump 124", cones 6.89
Sorry you were alarmed and insulted

By that logic we should just draft Verrett and let him play the slot on both sides of the ball.
Verrett ht. 5'10' wt. 189 40 time 4.38 vert 39.5 Broad 10'8" cones 6.69 Shuttle 4.00 Bench 19
Cooks ht. 5'10 wt. 189 40 time 4.33 vert 36 Broad 10'0" cones 6.76 Shuttle 3.81 Bench 16

Originally posted by VPofCarnage:

Originally posted by DeUh:
Bruce Ellington 5�9 197
40 Yrd Dash 4.45
10 Yrd Dash 1.63
Bench 15
Vertical 39.5"
Broad 10�
20 Yrd Shuttle 3.95
3-Cone Drill 6.69
60 Yrd Dash 11.12

Odell Beckham Jr. 5�11 198
40 Yrd Dash 4.43
10 Yrd Dash 1.59
Bench 7
Vertical 38.5"
Broad 10�2"
20 Yrd Shuttle 3.94
3-Cone Drill 6.69
60 Yrd Dash 10.93

Your 10-yard split for Beckham is wrong. Beckham has a 1.50 10-yard split. I don't know where you got 1.59.

Here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AseLAGMydisldHE0Rl9kOGxPXzhPckREX3NQd0dQTGc&usp=drive_web#gid=2

1st. Att.
40 Yrd Dash 4.40
10 Yrd Dash 1.59

2nd. Att.
40 Yrd Dash 4.31
10 Yrd Dash 1.50

There is no official 10 Yrd Dash time. His official 40 Yrd Dash time is 4.43 so I think 1.59 is more precise.

sorry guys, move up to get the #1 CB that Trent likes, followed by yet another CB that Trent/JH like. We have Reid and Bethea defended way more passes than Whitner, who while he really hit like a ton of bricks, that doesn't prevent a pass completion. I believe we will see an upgrade over whitner who altho a great hitter, did not defend passes well...and Bethea is excellent at it(look at his tapes).

As for pick #3, I had it as a WR, but have changed my mind. We already have 3 great WRs in Quan, Crabs and Vernon. At 4.3 in the 40, he is frequently the fastest guy out there. And we have already played him at WR. So we have our 3 Wideouts. Also, if JH wants to go 5 wide, we have Quan patton vance Vernon and Crabs. Having more receivers is not our problem. Calling plays with more than one guy a target IS a problem. kap not finding open guys, another problem. That one can be fixed by coaching I would think. If we sign a WR on pick #3, no one will see him this yr. All rooks (except maybe 1st rd pick sit the bench). Coach's preference. So if we do sign a WR with third pick, and he still may not make the team.

Wasn't my idea but elsewhere a Center was mentioned, but he would have to be a starter, and I agree. We got receivers. We just don't use them nor do they get called when in. A great C would be a Godsend.

Finally, if we do the anti- Trent, and jump up twice, I will be amazed. But if Trent has his sights set on two CB starters, we have the draft picks to burn. So if we jump up twice, then get a C (starter), or sigh, a WR, we could easily be out of picks on day 1. Now that would be a draft for history...especially because Trent guards his picks so closely. But in this draft, unless Trent drafts a starter with every pick, those picks that don't start probably won't make the team. Ergo, 3 picks day 1 and out. Anybody really think Trent is going to make picks in rds 1, 2 and 3 who he picks and knows they won't make the team? I sure don't see that, so the only alternative I can see is moving up twice to fix what is broken most.

The obvious counter to this is to package some picks off to 2015. But why, when this is the deepest draft in 10-30 years, and won't be seen again for a long time. Oh, finally , we get one or two QBs either in the 7th or UDFAs. Gabbert will be gone in a trade up to one of 5-8 teams who need a QB and extra picks.

Originally posted by DeUh:

There is no official 10 Yrd Dash time. His official 40 Yrd Dash time is 4.43 so I think 1.59 is more precise.

Ok; that makes sense. I didn't know there wasn't an official 10-yard split time. Everything I saw had it as 1.50.

Originally posted by VPofCarnage:

That seems even to you? Do you know how far an NFL receiver runs in 0.12 seconds? Far enough for separation on a long ball, and that's the difference bewtween Cooks & Elligton. I like Ellington. He's a good prospect. But he's not in Cooks' league. And Cooks' 10-yard split is 0.13 seconds slower than Cooks' 10-yard split, which says a lot about how much quicker Cooks is.

And Matthews' combine numbers are similar to Street (although Matthews' 40 was significantly better), but Matthews is a MUCH more polished receiver. It's not even close.

Saying that Ellington is not in Cooks league is a bit extreme seeing as how they will be playing in the same league the NFL. But I will concede that Cooks is a little faster than Ellington ,but I still feel Ellington is a better value in the 3rd or 4th round than Cooks in the 1st and I feel the same way about streets and Matthews.

Originally posted by Andra:

Cullliver is coming off ACL that makes his performance questionable,Brock's aggressive style makes him susceptible to being beat ,and though Bethea is a good pickup I would love to get Jimmie Ward (pipe dream) as FS and have Reid play more in the box.
Because this years WR class is so deep we can pickup a guy in the 3rd round and develop him to be ready in a season or two when we need him

Pipe dream answered

Originally posted by Andra:
Pipe dream answered

Just grab Landry.

Originally posted by fropwns:
Just grab Landry.

Amen. I wouldn't mind Landry in the 2nd. Kid is a baller.