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2014 Mock Draft DTG_9er

Oops, sorry
Originally posted by Murphys1:
It's kind of funny...the treads
It's funny as you go through the threads from all over the draftboard how many players will be "long gone before 30"....like 50 different guys! Says something about a deep draft. One thing for sure, if we sit at 30, there will still be some awesome talent available, as well as at 56 and 61.

Indeed there will be! I will be watching the mid first round to see if CBs or WRs are being taken high as that could produce a run. If, as some have predicted, five QBs go in the top fifteen then some really good WRs and CBs may be available at #30. Or DL if that's the choice the niners decide to make. If Watkins falls to seventh and Evans to fifteenth or so then WRs like Lee or Beckham could slide to us...but I don't really expect that to happen.

I try not to over value the first round and look at the first three rounds as a group...the niners are in really good shape. Five or six players in the first three rounds is almost embarrassing for a team this good! There ottobe a law!
DTG, dont you like mike evans?
Originally posted by communist:
DTG, dont you like mike evans?

Not sure I do at the price...here is the write up on him from CBS that worries me:

"Classic long-strider who does not possess the preferred burst off the snap to instantly challenge defenders off the line or out of his breaks. Relies too much on his size and physicality to win at the catch-point because he struggles to gain consistent separation. Able to dominate the smaller, weaker corners at the collegiate level but could struggle to do so in the NFL."

Seems like he would be a slower version of VD. Matthews is somewhat smaller but quicker and has many of the same qualities. Plus he will be a later round choice. Some of the negatives are the same...question as to whether they can get separation in the NFL. The niners would have to trade way up for Evans...too expensive for quite a risk.

I agree with those who would like a speed guy over Matthews but I just don't see one falling to the niners and Matthews is faster than many thought. Evans is slower than some thought.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by communist:
DTG, dont you like mike evans?

Not sure I do at the price...here is the write up on him from CBS that worries me:

"Classic long-strider who does not possess the preferred burst off the snap to instantly challenge defenders off the line or out of his breaks. Relies too much on his size and physicality to win at the catch-point because he struggles to gain consistent separation. Able to dominate the smaller, weaker corners at the collegiate level but could struggle to do so in the NFL."

Seems like he would be a slower version of VD. Matthews is somewhat smaller but quicker and has many of the same qualities. Plus he will be a later round choice. Some of the negatives are the same...question as to whether they can get separation in the NFL. The niners would have to trade way up for Evans...too expensive for quite a risk.

I agree with those who would like a speed guy over Matthews but I just don't see one falling to the niners and Matthews is faster than many thought. Evans is slower than some thought.


Evans is a 4.45 to 4.5 guy. Not speedy, but not slow either. The dude is 6'5" What's more, even if you complain about his seperation, he has a drop rate of 2.5%. That's freakish. A 4.26 20 yard suttle is amazing too when you consider how tall he is.

Not saying this is the guy I want..but there's a lot to like about Evans.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
This is something I'm most curious to see how it unfolds. Beckham is not my favorite receiver in this class, but he and Lee, to me, seem to be the most likely early targets for the 49ers in that list.

I keep seeing them go in the 20's but that's assuming a run on WRs. It's possible that the number of good quality WRs will force them down the draft and one of these guys or Cooks could be there at 30. I like their speed/height/weight ratios and they are within trade distance for the niners...so, who knows? One mock I saw last week had four WRs going from 27 through 30 with the niners taking Benjamin.

Cooks might be there, but he is one player I do not want. Watch his game against Washington, one of the better coverage teams he faced. It's one of the closer things he'd see to a Seattle-like secondary, and Cooks looked pretty much helpless, even when they tried to line him up on special plays to get him the ball. He was beaten soundly one on one for virtually the entire game. Against another top opponent in Oregon, he did very little as well.

Look at his competition and see who he racks up big games against. His best game came against the worst pass defense in the entire FBS and the majority of his production was against horrible competition rated outside the Top 100 in the FBS. He's a quick, speedy player, who did some good things in many games to be fair. Bottom line: to me he does not project to be a starting #1 or #2 in the NFL, so the first or second round is too high in a deep class. Overall I give him a 3rd round grade.

....

Love you OTC, but that grade is just ridiculous.

Cooks had 10 catches 117 yards and a TD against washington BTW...

I do know the numbers against Washington, but that was late in the game, after it was long out of reach. I encourage everyone to take a look too to see what I'm talking about. I didn't understand how someone with such huge numbers could look so bad, so I watched all of his games to see if something stood out and I came to one conclusion: Cooks' numbers are MASSIVELY deceiving.

Every year, you find out about what players were truly graded at after the draft. I would not be shocked at all to hear Cooks was not rated highly by some teams. You can re-quote me later if Cooks rocks the NFL beyond what you'd expect from a 3rd rounder but I don't see him as a 1st or 2nd round player.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Evans is a 4.45 to 4.5 guy. Not speedy, but not slow either. The dude is 6'5" What's more, even if you complain about his seperation, he has a drop rate of 2.5%. That's freakish. A 4.26 20 yard suttle is amazing too when you consider how tall he is.

Not saying this is the guy I want..but there's a lot to like about Evans.

He ran a 4.53 at the combine, not that the 40 time is the be all end all, but his 3 cone and shuttle were both substantially slower than Matthews--who ran a 4.18 shuttle. I lke to look at quickness and those two drills help give an understanding of change of direction speed and nimble-ness. This gets nit-picky but here are some comparisons of some taller, very good receivers:

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Mar 21, 2014 at 1:33 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Evans is a 4.45 to 4.5 guy. Not speedy, but not slow either. The dude is 6'5" What's more, even if you complain about his seperation, he has a drop rate of 2.5%. That's freakish. A 4.26 20 yard suttle is amazing too when you consider how tall he is.

Not saying this is the guy I want..but there's a lot to like about Evans.

He ran a 4.53 at the combine, not that the 40 time is the be all end all, but his 3 cone and shuttle were both substantially slower than Matthews--who ran a 4.18 shuttle. I lke to look at quickness and those two drills help give an understanding of change of direction speed and nimble-ness. This gets nit-picky but here are some comparisons of some taller, very good receivers:



Yes there are some guys out there with better times... Please note that the ones you chose were shorter and lighter than Evans.

BTW, did you just compare Evans to Megatron? REALLY? If that's the standard, you're making Evans look pretty freaking great.


Again, the hands. Evan has better hands than Mathews. Mathews drops at 7.69%? and half of his routes were screens only 10% of his plays were caught at over 20 yards. Evans is less than 3% drops and 19% screens? 1/4th of his catches were over 20 yards..so now we're talking about big play ability. Chew on that.

Again, Evans isn't the guy that I'm after...but if i'm given a choice between these two, I'll take Evans without blinking.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
This is something I'm most curious to see how it unfolds. Beckham is not my favorite receiver in this class, but he and Lee, to me, seem to be the most likely early targets for the 49ers in that list.

I keep seeing them go in the 20's but that's assuming a run on WRs. It's possible that the number of good quality WRs will force them down the draft and one of these guys or Cooks could be there at 30. I like their speed/height/weight ratios and they are within trade distance for the niners...so, who knows? One mock I saw last week had four WRs going from 27 through 30 with the niners taking Benjamin.

Cooks might be there, but he is one player I do not want. Watch his game against Washington, one of the better coverage teams he faced. It's one of the closer things he'd see to a Seattle-like secondary, and Cooks looked pretty much helpless, even when they tried to line him up on special plays to get him the ball. He was beaten soundly one on one for virtually the entire game. Against another top opponent in Oregon, he did very little as well.

Look at his competition and see who he racks up big games against. His best game came against the worst pass defense in the entire FBS and the majority of his production was against horrible competition rated outside the Top 100 in the FBS. He's a quick, speedy player, who did some good things in many games to be fair. Bottom line: to me he does not project to be a starting #1 or #2 in the NFL, so the first or second round is too high in a deep class. Overall I give him a 3rd round grade.

....

Love you OTC, but that grade is just ridiculous.

Cooks had 10 catches 117 yards and a TD against washington BTW...

I do know the numbers against Washington, but that was late in the game, after it was long out of reach. I encourage everyone to take a look too to see what I'm talking about. I didn't understand how someone with such huge numbers could look so bad, so I watched all of his games to see if something stood out and I came to one conclusion: Cooks' numbers are MASSIVELY deceiving.

Every year, you find out about what players were truly graded at after the draft. I would not be shocked at all to hear Cooks was not rated highly by some teams. You can re-quote me later if Cooks rocks the NFL beyond what you'd expect from a 3rd rounder but I don't see him as a 1st or 2nd round player.

He does have two seasons worth of solid production. Seems hard to condemn a guy for one game with the production he has had, especially when he had good numbers in that game, even if it was garbage time.

I respect your opinion, just really disagree here.

Im curious what your opinion is on Davante Adams, i respect your opinion around here, so im curious what your grade is on him?
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Evans is a 4.45 to 4.5 guy. Not speedy, but not slow either. The dude is 6'5" What's more, even if you complain about his seperation, he has a drop rate of 2.5%. That's freakish. A 4.26 20 yard suttle is amazing too when you consider how tall he is.

Not saying this is the guy I want..but there's a lot to like about Evans.

He ran a 4.53 at the combine, not that the 40 time is the be all end all, but his 3 cone and shuttle were both substantially slower than Matthews--who ran a 4.18 shuttle. I lke to look at quickness and those two drills help give an understanding of change of direction speed and nimble-ness. This gets nit-picky but here are some comparisons of some taller, very good receivers:



Yes there are some guys out there with better times... Please note that the ones you chose were shorter and lighter than Evans.

BTW, did you just compare Evans to Megatron? REALLY? If that's the standard, you're making Evans look pretty freaking great.


Again, the hands. Evan has better hands than Mathews. Mathews drops at 7.69%? and half of his routes were screens only 10% of his plays were caught at over 20 yards. Evans is less than 3% drops and 19% screens? 1/4th of his catches were over 20 yards..so now we're talking about big play ability. Chew on that.

Again, Evans isn't the guy that I'm after...but if i'm given a choice between these two, I'll take Evans without blinking.

Comparing a potential top ten pick to a former #2 pick. This was to point out the differences between this years draft and some in the past where the top picks were men among boys. Watkins is not nearly the player Calvin Johnson was coming out of college, let alone Mike Evans. So pretending that we know how these guys will eventually pan out in the NFL is just so much talk.

I tend to go with the odds and try to pick the BPA in a given round for my mock...not intending to demean players but to put them in context. If I wanted to slight Evans I would compare him to Mike Williams...same size and picked #10.

As to your last point--it's not Evans versus Matthews; it's Evans versus Matthews plus numerous draft picks to move up for Evans. Let's be fair now!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Evans is a 4.45 to 4.5 guy. Not speedy, but not slow either. The dude is 6'5" What's more, even if you complain about his seperation, he has a drop rate of 2.5%. That's freakish. A 4.26 20 yard suttle is amazing too when you consider how tall he is.

Not saying this is the guy I want..but there's a lot to like about Evans.

He ran a 4.53 at the combine, not that the 40 time is the be all end all, but his 3 cone and shuttle were both substantially slower than Matthews--who ran a 4.18 shuttle. I lke to look at quickness and those two drills help give an understanding of change of direction speed and nimble-ness. This gets nit-picky but here are some comparisons of some taller, very good receivers:



Yes there are some guys out there with better times... Please note that the ones you chose were shorter and lighter than Evans.

BTW, did you just compare Evans to Megatron? REALLY? If that's the standard, you're making Evans look pretty freaking great.


Again, the hands. Evan has better hands than Mathews. Mathews drops at 7.69%? and half of his routes were screens only 10% of his plays were caught at over 20 yards. Evans is less than 3% drops and 19% screens? 1/4th of his catches were over 20 yards..so now we're talking about big play ability. Chew on that.

Again, Evans isn't the guy that I'm after...but if i'm given a choice between these two, I'll take Evans without blinking.

Comparing a potential top ten pick to a former #2 pick. This was to point out the differences between this years draft and some in the past where the top picks were men among boys. Watkins is not nearly the player Calvin Johnson was coming out of college, let alone Mike Evans. So pretending that we know how these guys will eventually pan out in the NFL is just so much talk.

I tend to go with the odds and try to pick the BPA in a given round for my mock...not intending to demean players but to put them in context. If I wanted to slight Evans I would compare him to Mike Williams...same size and picked #10.

As to your last point--it's not Evans versus Matthews; it's Evans versus Matthews plus numerous draft picks to move up for Evans. Let's be fair now!


True enough. I'm not really interested in either guy unless Evans dropped into the early 20s or Mathews dropped into the late 3rd.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
This is something I'm most curious to see how it unfolds. Beckham is not my favorite receiver in this class, but he and Lee, to me, seem to be the most likely early targets for the 49ers in that list.

I keep seeing them go in the 20's but that's assuming a run on WRs. It's possible that the number of good quality WRs will force them down the draft and one of these guys or Cooks could be there at 30. I like their speed/height/weight ratios and they are within trade distance for the niners...so, who knows? One mock I saw last week had four WRs going from 27 through 30 with the niners taking Benjamin.

Cooks might be there, but he is one player I do not want. Watch his game against Washington, one of the better coverage teams he faced. It's one of the closer things he'd see to a Seattle-like secondary, and Cooks looked pretty much helpless, even when they tried to line him up on special plays to get him the ball. He was beaten soundly one on one for virtually the entire game. Against another top opponent in Oregon, he did very little as well.

Look at his competition and see who he racks up big games against. His best game came against the worst pass defense in the entire FBS and the majority of his production was against horrible competition rated outside the Top 100 in the FBS. He's a quick, speedy player, who did some good things in many games to be fair. Bottom line: to me he does not project to be a starting #1 or #2 in the NFL, so the first or second round is too high in a deep class. Overall I give him a 3rd round grade.

....

Love you OTC, but that grade is just ridiculous.

Cooks had 10 catches 117 yards and a TD against washington BTW...

I do know the numbers against Washington, but that was late in the game, after it was long out of reach. I encourage everyone to take a look too to see what I'm talking about. I didn't understand how someone with such huge numbers could look so bad, so I watched all of his games to see if something stood out and I came to one conclusion: Cooks' numbers are MASSIVELY deceiving.

Every year, you find out about what players were truly graded at after the draft. I would not be shocked at all to hear Cooks was not rated highly by some teams. You can re-quote me later if Cooks rocks the NFL beyond what you'd expect from a 3rd rounder but I don't see him as a 1st or 2nd round player.

He does have two seasons worth of solid production. Seems hard to condemn a guy for one game with the production he has had, especially when he had good numbers in that game, even if it was garbage time.

I respect your opinion, just really disagree here.

Im curious what your opinion is on Davante Adams, i respect your opinion around here, so im curious what your grade is on him?

I like Adams. I give him a 2nd round grade. He has a very high ceiling and could become a Crabtree type of receiver. Like Crabtree, he has extremely strong hands -- like physically strong. Also like Crabtree, he has decent but far from elite speed and he has to use great hand-battling and some quickness to release off the line and does a fine job of this. His production is inflated and shouldn't be a major area of focus when evaluating him -- a 7th rounder behind him had 1000+ yards too. The things he does well make me believe he has starting potential in the NFL. Strong RAC ability, quickness to elude and strength to power through arm tackles, and a fearless mindset over the middle means he will likely be a guy to make tough catches for your team.

The NFL will be an adjustment for the young player, but the guy is a true student of the game. Lots to love about Davante. Would take him over Jordan Matthews, to be honest.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Mar 21, 2014 at 9:04 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:

The NFL will be an adjustment for the young player, but the guy is a true student of the game. Lots to love about Davante. Would take him over Jordan Matthews, to be honest.

Actually thought about this for a while as I like him as well. But I like Matthews level of competions better so...
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
This is something I'm most curious to see how it unfolds. Beckham is not my favorite receiver in this class, but he and Lee, to me, seem to be the most likely early targets for the 49ers in that list.

I keep seeing them go in the 20's but that's assuming a run on WRs. It's possible that the number of good quality WRs will force them down the draft and one of these guys or Cooks could be there at 30. I like their speed/height/weight ratios and they are within trade distance for the niners...so, who knows? One mock I saw last week had four WRs going from 27 through 30 with the niners taking Benjamin.

Cooks might be there, but he is one player I do not want. Watch his game against Washington, one of the better coverage teams he faced. It's one of the closer things he'd see to a Seattle-like secondary, and Cooks looked pretty much helpless, even when they tried to line him up on special plays to get him the ball. He was beaten soundly one on one for virtually the entire game. Against another top opponent in Oregon, he did very little as well.

Look at his competition and see who he racks up big games against. His best game came against the worst pass defense in the entire FBS and the majority of his production was against horrible competition rated outside the Top 100 in the FBS. He's a quick, speedy player, who did some good things in many games to be fair. Bottom line: to me he does not project to be a starting #1 or #2 in the NFL, so the first or second round is too high in a deep class. Overall I give him a 3rd round grade.

....

Love you OTC, but that grade is just ridiculous.

Cooks had 10 catches 117 yards and a TD against washington BTW...

I do know the numbers against Washington, but that was late in the game, after it was long out of reach. I encourage everyone to take a look too to see what I'm talking about. I didn't understand how someone with such huge numbers could look so bad, so I watched all of his games to see if something stood out and I came to one conclusion: Cooks' numbers are MASSIVELY deceiving.

Every year, you find out about what players were truly graded at after the draft. I would not be shocked at all to hear Cooks was not rated highly by some teams. You can re-quote me later if Cooks rocks the NFL beyond what you'd expect from a 3rd rounder but I don't see him as a 1st or 2nd round player.

He does have two seasons worth of solid production. Seems hard to condemn a guy for one game with the production he has had, especially when he had good numbers in that game, even if it was garbage time.

I respect your opinion, just really disagree here.

Im curious what your opinion is on Davante Adams, i respect your opinion around here, so im curious what your grade is on him?

I like Adams. I give him a 2nd round grade. He has a very high ceiling and could become a Crabtree type of receiver. Like Crabtree, he has extremely strong hands -- like physically strong. Also like Crabtree, he has decent but far from elite speed and he has to use great hand-battling and some quickness to release off the line and does a fine job of this. His production is inflated and shouldn't be a major area of focus when evaluating him -- a 7th rounder behind him had 1000+ yards too. The things he does well make me believe he has starting potential in the NFL. Strong RAC ability, quickness to elude and strength to power through arm tackles, and a fearless mindset over the middle means he will likely be a guy to make tough catches for your team.

The NFL will be an adjustment for the young player, but the guy is a true student of the game. Lots to love about Davante. Would take him over Jordan Matthews, to be honest.

We agree on one then.
The more the draft approaches the more I am liking Matthews...and Moncrief.

However, this infatuation with midget DB's has to stop. Absolutely no way on the Joyner pick. Replace it with Babtist and I like the draft, although, I would swap the Richburg pick with a RB.