my mock draft again...this time, I was sober

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Stephon Tuitt is 20 with a minor injury that should be healed by the draft. Carradine is 24 coming off a major injury which may still be impacting his athleticism. Tuitt is bigger and stronger and I wouldn't be surprised if he was as athletic given Carradine's injury. At best (without the injury), Tank would've been a mid-first round prospect because of his age. Tuitt could still be a mid-first round pick despite the injury in a stronger draft class. He is easily the better prospect in my opinion even if Carradine wasn't injured. With the injury, Tank was picked around where he should have been given his age and the uncertainty of when he would be back and if he would fully recover. Both players have great length (34 5/8" arms for Tank, 34 3/4" for Tuitt) and I would be happy with them as bookends in the future. Tuitt would start opposite Justin Smith by the end of the season with Tank and McDonald rotating in. He also has the size and experience to rotate to DT on 3rd downs and really fill Justin Smith's role.

If Tuitt is there at 30 (and I don't expect him to be), I would take him. It's not a position of need, but he's a great scheme fit and a really nice value at 30.

Age don't mean Jack!

Remember Amobi Okoye?

Originally posted by BrianGO:
I love Tuitt, but he isn't half as athletic as Tank Carradine.

Beat me to the punch. Not trying to bash Tuitt, when I watched him play he was good, but I question how much better he'd be than Dobbs and It's a toss up for me if he's better than TJE.

Carridine, on paper is a freakier Aaron Donald, athletic wise.

I would rather trade up and get the Baalke Targets and that may be Tuitt or Hagemann. However, I would also much rather trade down or completely for future 2nd or 3rd round picks in next years draft. I would trade up for a Star Lotuleilei type player. I just as think that this years class of DE's is not as strong as last years, it's a gamble hoping that next years is better.

Like it. Nice job

The guy I like is Dominique Easley because of his speed and the ability to redshirt him until next year.

Russell Wilson and his 4.5 forty time is the reason we need to draft speed at DE.

We need DE's and OLB's who at the very least can hurry, pressure and/or track him down quickly if he runs.
We're just so close w/Seahawks and a SuperBowl that we need not only good players, but players good enough to contain Russell Wilson.

Not worried about the Cardinals as Palmer is slowing down and Bradford has to stay healthy.

Originally posted by Garlicboy:

Carridine, on paper is a freakier Aaron Donald, athletic wise.

They play different positions and Donald is a lot thicker than Carridine so Carridine should be the better athlete (but I'm not sure he is - his big advantage over Donald is his length which makes players look more athletic as Aldon Smith is an example of because it allows defensive players to keep offensive linemen's hands off them which makes it very easy to get around them). Carridine seems more like Kony Ealy than anyone else but was a little further along in his development.

Carradine's highlights look almost identical to Tuitt's sophomore year highlights. Tuitt came into 2013 a little overweight and out of shape but cut that weight down by the combine and looked like he was in similar shape to sophomore year. All 3 of them are similar athletes - Carradine ran a 4.9 4 months after surgery and while he may have regained some more speed and quickness, I doubt he would have beaten Donald in the 40. Donald also looked very good in the drills. Carradine was successful because of his length, strength, and motor which are all good traits that Tuitt shares (Donald doesn't have the length). He has a reasonable first step but I don't think he was the freak athlete some of you guys were making him out to be even before surgery. He also played DE on a talented 4-3 defensive line which opened up more opportunities for him - Tuitt (and Nix) got double teamed regularly in a 3-4 which makes it harder to display his first step and get sacks. He still got more sacks in his 2 seasons than Carradine despite being much younger and playing in a tougher scheme.

I'm happy with Carridine and would be even happier with both Tuitt and Carridine as our future bookends. If Cooks or a top corner are there at 30, I would look at them to and they may help us more in the short run because there is an immediate need for a slot WR and corner, but I don't think guys like Dobbs or TJE would cause us to pass on Tuitt.

Originally posted by Garlicboy:

The guy I like is Dominique Easley because of his speed and the ability to redshirt him until next year.

Russell Wilson and his 4.5 forty time is the reason we need to draft speed at DE.

We need DE's and OLB's who at the very least can hurry, pressure and/or track him down quickly if he runs.
We're just so close w/Seahawks and a SuperBowl that we need not only good players, but players good enough to contain Russell Wilson.

Not worried about the Cardinals as Palmer is slowing down and Bradford has to stay healthy.

Easley does not have great length and seems like a better fit as a 4-3 DT. With Easley, I feel like people are so enamored with the idea of redshirting players, that they are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Tuitt can rotate inside on 3rd downs which is when Wilson is the biggest threat to scramble and he does have reasonable speed and quickness for a 3-4 DE. We aren't going to find defensive linemen that fit our scheme and can run a 4.5 (unless we try to turn Clowney into a 3-4 DE but we aren't going to trade up that high and I don't think he would want to play that position his entire career). Carridine probably runs a 4.75 and Tuitt a 4.80 which is reasonable for containing Wilson but our linebackers will really need to track him down if he runs. Tuitt does a good job of staying in his gap and still getting pressure which is what you want against a scrambling QB.

I know I'm coming off as a biased in favor of Tuitt and I am a ND fan, but he's a young guy and I still think he can bounce back and become the player he was in 2012-2013 when he was being talked about as a potential top 5 or 10 pick. For what is considered a down year for him where he wasn't in his best shape, he still put up solid stats against constant double teams and played hard. He's the only ND player I will be this high on until Jaylon Smith comes out.

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Don't like it. Am I the only one that was impressed with TJE and Dorsey last season? And with Tank and Dial, why go DL with first pick?

TJE was good and filled in admirably, but I don't see him as a starter. Tuitt can potentially start. Dorsey would play exclusively an NT. We'd have Justin Smith (soon to be gone), Ray Mc, TJE, Tank, and Tuitt at DE. Williams, Dorsey, and Dial at NT. Basically a group of guys that we can consistently rotate to keep everyone fresh. I don't think this is over kill.

I like the fact that in the mock they picked Tuitt and Easley. We will have a replacement for Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, and a quality back up at both positions. There is no need to take a receiver in the first with so many good talents available in the 2nd and third rounds. The OP also picked up a playmaking CB/S that I like in Joyner and added some speed at receiver. I'd only swap the Moncreif pick for Jordan Matthews or Jarvis Landry. One other thing, are we missing two third round picks or is there some type of trade I'm overlooking? I expected the comp pick for Goldson to be a third. Let's not shortchange ourselves lol. Those 30 + slots back up into the 3rd will make a huge difference.

Originally posted by communist:
My idea is, to be honest it is not mine of course:
load the trenches with talent as good as you can. I don't care about Dobbs at all and I don't care about TJE either and especially not about Okoye. One of them could be gone due to final cut. We are talking about Tuitt, a 1st-round prospect, you do get that, right?
BUT it is a legitimate point.
BTW, drafting Tuitt means "Dobbs, TJE, Okoye, get your arse up or you are done here"...

Stork is a late 4th-rounder who could be placed at the PS. He is versatile at the interior o-line.

Additionally to that, we don't know how good the mentioned guys really are.

BUT it is another legitimate point as well.






Ok, another OT is really not needed for now at all.

I don't want to miss out on Tuitt. If the guy is available with our first-rounder, go get him.

Yeah, we do get that Tuitt is a 1st-round talent. What you don't seem to get is that he'll be buried on the depth chart and make zero immediate impact.

We need a 1st-round talent at WR or CB where there is an actual chance of playing time for a rookie. We're absolutely loaded on the DL and already making two huge addtions in Carradine and Williams.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Carridine seems more like Kony Ealy than anyone else but was a little further along in his development.

Carradine's highlights look almost identical to Tuitt's sophomore year highlights. Tuitt came into 2013 a little overweight and out of shape but cut that weight down by the combine and looked like he was in similar shape to sophomore year. All 3 of them are similar athletes - Carradine ran a 4.9 4 months after surgery and while he may have regained some more speed and quickness, I doubt he would have beaten Donald in the 40.

Donald was a quick comparison, obviously no two players are our identical. The comparison was mainly in regards to their speed and quickness.

Carridine ran a 4.75 four and half months post ACL operation. Not sure you understand how FREAKY that is. That is Frickin INSANE! Would not surprise me if Tank is able to run a 4.5 or 4.6 right now.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000162142/article/tank-carradine-impresses-with-475-40-in-predraft-run

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
TJE was good and filled in admirably, but I don't see him as a starter. Tuitt can potentially start. Dorsey would play exclusively an NT. We'd have Justin Smith (soon to be gone), Ray Mc, TJE, Tank, and Tuitt at DE. Williams, Dorsey, and Dial at NT. Basically a group of guys that we can consistently rotate to keep everyone fresh. I don't think this is over kill.

I like the fact that in the mock they picked Tuitt and Easley. We will have a replacement for Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, and a quality back up at both positions. There is no need to take a receiver in the first with so many good talents available in the 2nd and third rounds. The OP also picked up a playmaking CB/S that I like in Joyner and added some speed at receiver. I'd only swap the Moncreif pick for Jordan Matthews or Jarvis Landry. One other thing, are we missing two third round picks or is there some type of trade I'm overlooking? I expected the comp pick for Goldson to be a third. Let's not shortchange ourselves lol. Those 30 + slots back up into the 3rd will make a huge difference.

Matthews is ok, Landry not. I like him but he is not as dynamic as Moncrief/Matthews.

I've traded down from our original 3rd-round spot to the top of the 4th.
I assume that we will receive an additional 4th-rounder out of Goldson's departure.

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Yeah, we do get that Tuitt is a 1st-round talent. What you don't seem to get is that he'll be buried on the depth chart and make zero immediate impact.

We need a 1st-round talent at WR or CB where there is an actual chance of playing time for a rookie. We're absolutely loaded on the DL and already making two huge addtions in Carradine and Williams.

To be exact, we are also loaded at WR too. Boldin, Crabs, Patton, Baldwin. If all of them make the final cut etc., the new WRs will have a hard time.
Additionally to that, this draft is LOADED with WR- and CB-talent and we know how good our FO is at drafting CBs late. No need to pick one in the first round.

Ian Williams is our NT, either a starter or a quality-backup. We don't know how fit Tank is and I don't want to have an injured Justin Smith...the guy has to rest for some snaps.
TJE could be left after all of our cuts, Dobbs and Okoye could be gone. Okoye is completely unexperienced which means either he is VERY ambitious or he will need another year on the PS or he will never be a guy of starter quality.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
Don't like it. Am I the only one that was impressed with TJE and Dorsey last season? And with Tank and Dial, why go DL with first pick?

You do realize that RayMac and Justin, especially Justin, are done within the next two years? Should we trust TJE, Okoye, Dobbs or Tank particularly IF we have the opportunity to get a clearcut first-round talent in Tuitt?

Imho, the trenches should be filled with potential starters. There you go.

Contrary to that I don't want us to go for a CB or WR in the first round so badly. Both positions are deep in this draft, no need to rush unless we are fallen in love with someone.
But if a guy falls into your lap who should be gone about 5-15 picks ago, you either trade down, if it is a position like QB, TE, OLB, RB, OT, which is set for now pretty good or you pick the guy within a heartbeat.

If you argue age, then certainly Boldin's age is a factor. That Crabtree is a big question mark after this season means the WR corps is at least as vulnerable as the DL. The basic point is that the DL is the team's best unit. The WR and secondary are the weakest. Make those units championship quality first before adding a guy who will be on the sideline most of the time next season.

Boldin is signed through 2015, Crabtree can be tagged, if needed. Quick/fast WR can be found on day 2 (Ellington, Herron).

BTW, as I've already told: the new WR will be on the sidelines very often as well.

Originally posted by communist:
Boldin is signed through 2015, Crabtree can be tagged, if needed. Quick/fast WR can be found on day 2 (Ellington, Herron).

BTW, as I've already told: the new WR will be on the sidelines very often as well.

I'd be stunned if we tag a WR with Baalke as GM.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I'd be stunned if we tag a WR with Baalke as GM.

that is not a Baalke-thread.