Jimmie Ward Strong Safety

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
The more you think about it, it's between him and Deone Bucannon if we lose Whitner.

According to who? Who knows what the 49ers are actually thinking, they might be wanting to trade up for Clinton-Dix, or perhaps they are high on Dixon, its really tough to say. Can't even imagine what their draft board is shaping up to look like.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
The more you think about it, it's between him and Deone Bucannon if we lose Whitner.

According to who? Who knows what the 49ers are actually thinking, they might be wanting to trade up for Clinton-Dix, or perhaps they are high on Dixon, its really tough to say. Can't even imagine what their draft board is shaping up to look like.

Yeah it'll be very interesting. We have no idea what they're going to do at the strong safety position if they don't retain Whitner. They may trade up for Clinton Dix or Pyror, they may go after Bucannon in round two, they may convert a corner to safety (Mcgill/Joyner), they may draft some guy were not even talking about. Going to be fun to see what goes down! I'm confident in this team when it comes to acquiring the right defensive players. Wide receivers on the other hand? not so much..

I know a lot of people are high on Jimmie Ward. I am unfortunately not one of those. I have not seen quite enough to impress me just yet, so right now I tab him as a 3rd rounder. A decent prospect, but far too risky for me to place any higher than the third.

He's higher rated than Bucannon that's for sure. Do not like Bucannon at all.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I know a lot of people are high on Jimmie Ward. I am unfortunately not one of those. I have not seen quite enough to impress me just yet, so right now I tab him as a 3rd rounder. A decent prospect, but far too risky for me to place any higher than the third.

He's higher rated than Bucannon that's for sure. Do not like Bucannon at all.

This. Not a fan and don't understand the hype around him.

agree on Bucannon... but why no likey Jimmie Ward? Don't really think he can cover WRs? don't think he can work through tackles? Dear Jeebus, wwwwhhhhhyyyyy?!?

^ weird... have no idea why it linked that last bit, lolz...

Originally posted by buck:
I did a search and could not find a thread for Jimmie Ward. I do believe he merits a thread.

He has good size and better than average speed for a safety.

At the Senior Bowl, Ward played safety and he functioned as a slot cornerback.

In the past two years, Ward has demonstrated exceptional ball skills.

The chart below shows the top 15 defensive backs in defending the pass.
Players are ordered by passes defended per game.

Ward is ranked #8 on this list. He is the only safety in the top ten.

I believe we need a safety with good ball skills.

If Ward has more passes defensed and more tackles than Clinton-Dix then why is everyone so infatuated with Clinton-Dix? Is Clinton Dix a better safety and based on what criteria?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I know a lot of people are high on Jimmie Ward. I am unfortunately not one of those. I have not seen quite enough to impress me just yet, so right now I tab him as a 3rd rounder. A decent prospect, but far too risky for me to place any higher than the third.

He's higher rated than Bucannon that's for sure. Do not like Bucannon at all.

This. Not a fan and don't understand the hype around him.

Why?

I completely understand that Whitner is a leader in the secondary and that he really helped Eric Reid this year develop as a rookie - and he's a great addition playing SS against the run but.....at best Whitner is average in pass coverage and at worst he's quite bad. Sorry. He had a career year last year and yet on many occasion key completions were made on him that I think a better pass defender may have prevented or made a better fist of pass deflecting. Too often Whitner relied on trying to get an incompletion through the strength of the hit on the receiver rather than through his position in coverage or through batting the ball away.

As good as Whitner is in supporting the run game this isn't a weakness on the team with the front 7 the team has. Any safety is going to be solid in the run game in front of those DLine and LBs. I am not so bothered by the "Hitner" and penalties side of his game but as above his skill set is not a good match for the 49ers desired defense of having two safeties who are effectively both SS/FS and can therefore better disguise coverages.

The nail in the coffin for me is that he wants a long contract and top end $.....top end $ for a SS with poor hands and is a weak link in pass coverage.....I'll pass thanks and wish him all the very best in FA. I'd rather the team used the saved $ on Aldon Smith, Iupati, Crabtree and Kaep.

Letting Whitner and Rogers walk - both with poor hands - saves the team about $10m next year.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

I know a lot of people are high on Jimmie Ward. I am unfortunately not one of those. I have not seen quite enough to impress me just yet, so right now I tab him as a 3rd rounder. A decent prospect, but far too risky for me to place any higher than the third.

He's higher rated than Bucannon that's for sure. Do not like Bucannon at all.

This. Not a fan and don't understand the hype around him.

Perhaps, it is difficult to find enough tape of Northern Illinois.

The level of competition that he faced may be a problem, but there are many small school players who have done well in the NFL.

He did very well against the big boys at the Senior Bowl as both a safety and a slot corner.

His statistics indicate that he has excellent ball skills and that he can tackle.

I think he would be a solid 2nd round pick.

Originally posted by Ninefan56:

If Ward has more passes defensed and more tackles than Clinton-Dix then why is everyone so infatuated with Clinton-Dix? Is Clinton Dix a better safety and based on what criteria?

Passes defensed and tackles are not the measure of how good a safety or cornerback is. A true shutdown corner would not have many passes defensed because the opposing teams would know to avoid them. Clinton Dix doesn't have a ton of passes defensed, but he can cover and has both size and range which is rare among safeties this year. Passer rating against is a better measure of how good a corner is in coverage but it doesn't factor in scheme and quality of players around guys (a pass rush with help over the top from safeties would help corners a lot vs being left on an island without pressure on the QB). The chart by itself is meaningless - you have to factor in number of targets, scheme, help from teammates, quality of opponents, etc.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Originally posted by Ninefan56:
If Ward has more passes defensed and more tackles than Clinton-Dix then why is everyone so infatuated with Clinton-Dix? Is Clinton Dix a better safety and based on what criteria?

Passes defensed and tackles are not the measure of how good a safety or cornerback is. A true shutdown corner would not have many passes defensed because the opposing teams would know to avoid them. Clinton Dix doesn't have a ton of passes defensed, but he can cover and has both size and range which is rare among safeties this year. Passer rating against is a better measure of how good a corner is in coverage but it doesn't factor in scheme and quality of players around guys (a pass rush with help over the top from safeties would help corners a lot vs being left on an island without pressure on the QB). The chart by itself is meaningless - you have to factor in number of targets, scheme, help from teammates, quality of opponents, etc.

So is Clinton-Dix that good of a safety that we should try to get him?

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Passes defensed and tackles are not the measure of how good a safety or cornerback is. A true shutdown corner would not have many passes defensed because the opposing teams would know to avoid them. Clinton Dix doesn't have a ton of passes defensed, but he can cover and has both size and range which is rare among safeties this year. Passer rating against is a better measure of how good a corner is in coverage but it doesn't factor in scheme and quality of players around guys (a pass rush with help over the top from safeties would help corners a lot vs being left on an island without pressure on the QB). The chart by itself is meaningless - you have to factor in number of targets, scheme, help from teammates, quality of opponents, etc.

There is no instrument that by itself provides a definitive answer. That is why scouting is as much an art as a science.

Originally posted by Ninefan56:

So is Clinton-Dix that good of a safety that we should try to get him?

Honestly, I wouldn't take a safety this year. Clinton-Dix is my favorite safety but I think the safety class is weak which will cause guys to get overdrafted. I wouldn't be willing to trade up as far as we will have to in order to get him. I'm not sure any of the safeties would be an immediate upgrade over Whitner so I'd rather re-sign him and take a corner in the first (or BPA at 30 if we don't like a corner and one of the top WR's is there or Stephon Tuitt who would start over Carradine and McDonald immediately IMO).

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Honestly, I wouldn't take a safety this year. Clinton-Dix is my favorite safety but I think the safety class is weak which will cause guys to get overdrafted.

Totally agree. There are some ok prospects, but I think you can find similar value in round 4 to round 1.

The guy I want is Jaylen Watkins in the late 3rd or 4th round.