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Stop The Kelvin Benjamin Hype!

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Ok I'll play your game, I disagree, and walkins catchs a heavy amount of screens, very easy catchs skewing there catch %. A ball 20+ yards down the field is a lot harder to catch and adjust too.

In a three year span from 2012-2009 these guys lead the league in drops... Go look down Michael crabtree is on this list.
Rank, Player, Team, Drops
1 Brandon Marshall CHI 35
2 Wes Welker NE 32
3 Roddy White ATL 30
4 Dwayne Bowe KC 26
5 DeSean Jackson PHI 25
6 Santana Moss WAS 24
7 Pierre Garcon WAS 22
7 Michael Crabtree SF 22
7 Donald Driver GB 22
10 Nate Burleson DET 21

Look at the talent on that list.. Everyone on this board would want, D Jackson when he came out, Wes welker had Brady one of the great qb's, Donald Driver had Rodgers. I'd take everyone on that list but Nate Burleson.

We need a young randy moss a guy who can run the go and the post, those 2 routes are what benj does best, mikes best route is the comeback you can see it on tap for a guy his size he's really good at that route.

Doesn't matter the best wr in this class is wakins he's out of our reach, will go db anyways I doubt we risk another change to bust at wr in the first round for the trent baalke era! Dude can draft defensive players like no other, I expect him to just do what he's good at.

Besides doesn't matter which wr we take in this draft, we couldn't develop one for the life of us.

You have to consider the amount of targets when looking at that list. Of course a guy with more opportunities is going to have more drops. Brandon Marshall, Dwayne Bowe, and Michael Crabtree are the most targeted guys on their teams. They are also not great separation guys, so if most of their targets are contested they are going to have more drops.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Moncrief reminds me of a young Josh Gordon, who everybody wanted to trade high picks for. He should be there in the second round. We have to get the best db we can in the first round.


Niners should have traded a first for Gordon. IMO Gordon is better than any receiver available at 30. He's proven and considering it's still a ? if the Niners can even draft a WR early...
you also need to look for separation in a WR. Jenkins had amazing hands coming out of college but it didn't do much help when he couldn't get open. Benjamin is a guy who can burn a CB and box him out. I think that's why he is getting so much hype, because he is a good match for the seahawks.DBs
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Moncrief reminds me of a young Josh Gordon, who everybody wanted to trade high picks for. He should be there in the second round. We have to get the best db we can in the first round.


Niners should have traded a first for Gordon. IMO Gordon is better than any receiver available at 30. He's proven and considering it's still a ? if the Niners can even draft a WR early...

This constantly comes up and I always want to ask Josh Gordon boosters if they understand that if he makes one mistake, he's gone for an entire season. One night out where he takes a hit off a joint. One wrong brownie, one drunk driving conviction, one party gone wrong, one groupie making an accusation, one mistaken dose of adderall - anything. The next mistake Gordon makes, whether it's his fault or not, he's suspended for a year.
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Moncrief reminds me of a young Josh Gordon, who everybody wanted to trade high picks for. He should be there in the second round. We have to get the best db we can in the first round.


Niners should have traded a first for Gordon. IMO Gordon is better than any receiver available at 30. He's proven and considering it's still a ? if the Niners can even draft a WR early...

This constantly comes up and I always want to ask Josh Gordon boosters if they understand that if he makes one mistake, he's gone for an entire season. One night out where he takes a hit off a joint. One wrong brownie, one drunk driving conviction, one party gone wrong, one groupie making an accusation, one mistaken dose of adderall - anything. The next mistake Gordon makes, whether it's his fault or not, he's suspended for a year.

If it's his fault, yes. If it isn't his fault probably not. Players get falsely accused and acquitted often. He can't afford to make any more stupid mistakes. Do you think the Niners would take Aldon with the first pick again if given the opportunity? I do. The same mistakes you mentioned can be said for Aldon. Gordon's superstar ability can't be denied though, just like Aldon.
Originally posted by JustinNiner:
you also need to look for separation in a WR. Jenkins had amazing hands coming out of college but it didn't do much help when he couldn't get open. Benjamin is a guy who can burn a CB and box him out. I think that's why he is getting so much hype, because he is a good match for the seahawks.DBs

How do you figure? The guys who gave the most trouble by far were smaller, quicker receivers. You won't win trying to out-muscle those guys generally, you beat them by going where they aren't. If Calvin Johnson struggled to do much against them, how do you figure that Benjamin, who isn't even in the same category would do any better?


Brandon Marshall had a very good game against them in 2012, but his two biggest plays of the game came on miscues by the secondary, Sherman trying to cheat to get an interception and blowing his coverage. The guys who beat that secondary are small, quick and fast.


Bigger receivers work to their advantage, more to hold and grab on to all the way down the field.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Feb 19, 2014 at 3:13 PM ]
Originally posted by crake49:
This constantly comes up and I always want to ask Josh Gordon boosters if they understand that if he makes one mistake, he's gone for an entire season. One night out where he takes a hit off a joint. One wrong brownie, one drunk driving conviction, one party gone wrong, one groupie making an accusation, one mistaken dose of adderall - anything. The next mistake Gordon makes, whether it's his fault or not, he's suspended for a year.

I also believe the Niners have a better locker room and support system to keep this kid out of trouble.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by JustinNiner:
you also need to look for separation in a WR. Jenkins had amazing hands coming out of college but it didn't do much help when he couldn't get open. Benjamin is a guy who can burn a CB and box him out. I think that's why he is getting so much hype, because he is a good match for the seahawks.DBs

How do you figure? The guys who gave the most trouble by far were smaller, quicker receivers. You won't win trying to out-muscle those guys generally, you beat them by going where they aren't. If Calvin Johnson struggled to do much against them, how do you figure that Benjamin, who isn't even in the same category would do any better?


Brandon Marshall had a very good game against them in 2012, but his two biggest plays of the game came on miscues by the secondary, Sherman trying to cheat to get an interception and blowing his coverage. The guys who beat that secondary are small, quick and fast.


Bigger receivers work to their advantage, more to hold and grab on to all the way down the field.

I agree with you Phoenix. The big issue is finding a smaller, quick, fast receiver who can stay off the ground.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
How do you figure? The guys who gave the most trouble by far were smaller, quicker receivers. You won't win trying to out-muscle those guys generally, you beat them by going where they aren't. If Calvin Johnson struggled to do much against them, how do you figure that Benjamin, who isn't even in the same category would do any better?


Brandon Marshall had a very good game against them in 2012, but his two biggest plays of the game came on miscues by the secondary, Sherman trying to cheat to get an interception and blowing his coverage. The guys who beat that secondary are small, quick and fast.


Bigger receivers work to their advantage, more to hold and grab on to all the way down the field.

Kyle Williams was small, quick and fast. Why could he never do s**t against pretty much any D?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1645756-how-do-scouts-break-down-nfl-wide-receiver-prospects

The top 2 are Benjamins problems
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
How do you figure? The guys who gave the most trouble by far were smaller, quicker receivers. You won't win trying to out-muscle those guys generally, you beat them by going where they aren't. If Calvin Johnson struggled to do much against them, how do you figure that Benjamin, who isn't even in the same category would do any better?


Brandon Marshall had a very good game against them in 2012, but his two biggest plays of the game came on miscues by the secondary, Sherman trying to cheat to get an interception and blowing his coverage. The guys who beat that secondary are small, quick and fast.


Bigger receivers work to their advantage, more to hold and grab on to all the way down the field.

Kyle Williams was small, quick and fast. Why could he never do s**t against pretty much any D?

Because he was a s**tty WR. The criteria isn't just being small, quick and fast (see AJ and KW)...the criteria is being a quality receiver AND being small, quick and fast.
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Kyle Williams was small, quick and fast. Why could he never do s**t against pretty much any D?

Because he was an awful receiver? Because quick and fast, just like being tall, is no guarantee of success, you need the talent to go with it. For a smaller receiver, Kyle Williams was an especially terrible route runner, dude had no business being out there at all. I'm not saying that you can choose any shifty receiver to go out there and play well against that secondary, but this notion that you need big receivers to succeed against big cornerbacks is completely backwards. You need to expose their weaknesses rather than play to their strengths.


Over the past 3 seasons, the receivers who have consistently given them the most trouble are the shiftier types who break free of their press coverage and who are too fast/quick to hold on to.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Feb 19, 2014 at 3:37 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Because he was a s**tty WR. The criteria isn't just being small, quick and fast (see AJ and KW)...the criteria is being a quality receiver AND being small, quick and fast.

This. TY Hilton is quick and fast, he's also a very skilled receiver. You can't have one without the other.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
this guy is gonna suck in the nfl

Too slow and basically has no agility. He might be a nice receiving tight end though in the right offense. I don't think he's a good fit. We need a true explosive wide receiver.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Because he was a s**tty WR. The criteria isn't just being small, quick and fast (see AJ and KW)...the criteria is being a quality receiver AND being small, quick and fast.


Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Because he was an awful receiver? Because quick and fast, just like being tall, is no guarantee of success, you need the talent to go with it. For a smaller receiver, Kyle Williams was an especially terrible route runner, dude had no business being out there at all. I'm not saying that you can choose any shifty receiver to go out there and play well against that secondary, but this notion that you need big receivers to succeed against big cornerbacks is completely backwards. You need to expose their weaknesses rather than play to their strengths.


Over the past 3 seasons, the receivers who have consistently given them the most trouble are the shiftier types who break free of their press coverage and who are too fast/quick to hold on to.

LOL. It was a loaded question. I know he was s**tty. It is hard to find guys who can take the top off, create separation on the short and intermediate routes, stay off the ground against press, and have good hands. Hopefully we can find that guy. Niners can't afford another swing and miss on an early round receiver.