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Pre Combine Mock Draft

  • sfout
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Originally posted by RumorHasIt:
Originally posted by sfout:
See above. Whitner's value has risen, not dropped from his price. Brown played through his injury and played well, coaches will want his toughness, even at 29. Boldin is going to cost comparable to what we paid him for 2013.

Like what Rollin said it IS POSSIBLE but it is going to require a TON OF WORK.

Love how you went back and edited "physically impossible" to "nearly impossible" to now "possible but requiring a ton of work."

Which is it lol?

Whatever you want it to be. Sorry I'm trying to be accommodating to someone and not be too inflammatory with my word choice.
Originally posted by sfout:
It is nearly impossible to re-sign Boldin, Brown, Whitner AND Phil Dawson. We only have $5.5 mil in cap room. Cutting Rogers gets us to $12. Cutting Jon Baldwin gets us to $13.5.

Please tell me how we sign a player who just had his 2nd best season of his career at age 33 and played it for $6M, a player who is ticked he lost $2M to a snafu and is easily one of the most underrated CBs in the NFL, and a SS who had his best season of his time with us at a price of $3.3 per year. Plus a kicker that is going to cost us roughly $3M just for ONE year.

Boldin is going to command at least $6M and it will take a creative contract to have a lower cap # then $4.5M. Brown will likely get a deal comparable to Sean Smith of KC, with a cap # between 3.5 and 4.5 million, Whitner "wants to come back" but he'll cost at least $4M per year. Plus Dawson's $3M. We're looking at no less than $12M in cap hits and we need to have enough cash to sign up to 12 picks. Which is about $3M PLUS.

That is $15 Million. It isn't possible unless we get several players to restructure like Gore, Staley, McDonald, etc.
in his dreams he can try to command it...srs, i dont care how good he was. he is 33 and it was one of his best season between a lot of above avg at best seasons.
  • sfout
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Originally posted by communist:
in his dreams he can try to command it...srs, i dont care how good he was. he is 33 and it was one of his best season between a lot of above avg at best seasons.

That may be but he's easily one of the top 3 WRs in the FA class. If we want him back it'll come down to us convincing him that whatever we offer him is best for the team.

Which is why this nfl.com regurgitation of what I would say is common knowledge about the 9ers and Boldin working on a contract right now all the more interesting. We'll find out very quickly what Boldin thinks he's worth.
[ Edited by sfout on Feb 16, 2014 at 6:07 PM ]
We can't even get enough touches to the tight ends we already have, why do we need another tight end?
Originally posted by T-9ers:
We can't even get enough touches to the tight ends we already have, why do we need another tight end?

In that logic why even draft a WR? How about just drafting all running backs and offensive lineman. Sprinkle in a few defensive players. We will just mash the hell out of people and never throw.
  • sfout
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Originally posted by RumorHasIt:
Originally posted by T-9ers:
We can't even get enough touches to the tight ends we already have, why do we need another tight end?

In that logic why even draft a WR? How about just drafting all running backs and offensive lineman. Sprinkle in a few defensive players. We will just mash the hell out of people and never throw.

What is with you and the word logic?? Instead of questioning everyone who raises a question with you why don't you justify it by saying we'll be cutting Celek AND Carrier or something.

What is so wrong with the idea of not drafting a TE to you?

What we need this offseason is a potential replacement for Whitner, Brown, likely Rogers as well and a slot receiver.

SS
CB
CB
WR

Center is a bigger need than TE.

TE is honestly no where near this teams needs that it is funny to see you post we should trade up to select one. I would rather we traded up for DL to play off my earlier post than a TE. At least with a DL we could argue it is for insurance that Carradine is still working in and we may not bring Dobbs back.
Originally posted by sfout:
What is with you and the word logic?? Instead of questioning everyone who raises a question with you why don't you justify it by saying we'll be cutting Celek AND Carrier or something.

What is so wrong with the idea of not drafting a TE to you?

What we need this offseason is a potential replacement for Whitner, Brown, likely Rogers as well and a slot receiver.

SS
CB
CB
WR

Center is a bigger need than TE.

TE is honestly no where near this teams needs that it is funny to see you post we should trade up to select one. I would rather we traded up for DL to play off my earlier post than a TE. At least with a DL we could argue it is for insurance that Carradine is still working in and we may not bring Dobbs back.
I take anyone's arguments with thought. But when you throw the words "bigger need" around, I have to rebut.

First of all no one team drafts purely on need. When you are in a position where there are no major holes in the starting units, (as shown in the scenario I stated in the original post) you draft BPA. I happen to think Amaro is a top 20 player in the draft. Hence my reasoning for drafting him.

How many times did we see the offense sputter in the red zone this year? We beat Seattle if we score 7 off of the opening turnover instead of 3. I don't see any red zone targets outside the top 3 wide receiving prospects that will have an immediate impact. Amaro is that guy. He has size, hands and the ability to get the ball. That's why you get him. Seriously, Davis and Amaro in a two tight set is a nightmare for defenses.

Was New England wrong to draft another TE when they already had a good one? No.
Originally posted by RumorHasIt:
Originally posted by sfout:
What is with you and the word logic?? Instead of questioning everyone who raises a question with you why don't you justify it by saying we'll be cutting Celek AND Carrier or something.

What is so wrong with the idea of not drafting a TE to you?

What we need this offseason is a potential replacement for Whitner, Brown, likely Rogers as well and a slot receiver.

SS
CB
CB
WR

Center is a bigger need than TE.

TE is honestly no where near this teams needs that it is funny to see you post we should trade up to select one. I would rather we traded up for DL to play off my earlier post than a TE. At least with a DL we could argue it is for insurance that Carradine is still working in and we may not bring Dobbs back.
I take anyone's arguments with thought. But when you throw the words "bigger need" around, I have to rebut.

First of all no one team drafts purely on need. When you are in a position where there are no major holes in the starting units, (as shown in the scenario I stated in the original post) you draft BPA. I happen to think Amaro is a top 20 player in the draft. Hence my reasoning for drafting him.

How many times did we see the offense sputter in the red zone this year? We beat Seattle if we score 7 off of the opening turnover instead of 3. I don't see any red zone targets outside the top 3 wide receiving prospects that will have an immediate impact. Amaro is that guy. He has size, hands and the ability to get the ball. That's why you get him. Seriously, Davis and Amaro in a two tight set is a nightmare for defenses.

Was New England wrong to draft another TE when they already had a good one? No.

New England didnt know if either TE was goin to work out seein as they were both draft in tha same yr....Gronkowski was a 2nd round pick N Hernandez was a 4th round pick both in 2010 ....
A 1st round TE would be a huge waste IMO ... N signing Brown ,Boldin N Whitner would not be smart I dont want us to go into cap h*ll N have old over paid playerz in a few yrz...
You say BPA is Amaro... if that's the case why trade up? That's not playing BPA. That's targeting a guy and getting him. I have no problem with this but I doubt that player will be a TE.
CB should be the pick if they want to target. Someone to match up on Harvin & that guy the rams drafted last year. I forget his name.

Otherwise we need firepower to beat the s**thawks. A shifty WR that will find space in the underneath zones and just as easily burn the safeties deep. I don't think a TE is that kind of guy.
  • sfout
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Originally posted by RumorHasIt:
Originally posted by sfout:
What is with you and the word logic?? Instead of questioning everyone who raises a question with you why don't you justify it by saying we'll be cutting Celek AND Carrier or something.

What is so wrong with the idea of not drafting a TE to you?

What we need this offseason is a potential replacement for Whitner, Brown, likely Rogers as well and a slot receiver.

SS
CB
CB
WR

Center is a bigger need than TE.

TE is honestly no where near this teams needs that it is funny to see you post we should trade up to select one. I would rather we traded up for DL to play off my earlier post than a TE. At least with a DL we could argue it is for insurance that Carradine is still working in and we may not bring Dobbs back.
I take anyone's arguments with thought. But when you throw the words "bigger need" around, I have to rebut.

First of all no one team drafts purely on need. When you are in a position where there are no major holes in the starting units, (as shown in the scenario I stated in the original post) you draft BPA. I happen to think Amaro is a top 20 player in the draft. Hence my reasoning for drafting him.

How many times did we see the offense sputter in the red zone this year? We beat Seattle if we score 7 off of the opening turnover instead of 3. I don't see any red zone targets outside the top 3 wide receiving prospects that will have an immediate impact. Amaro is that guy. He has size, hands and the ability to get the ball. That's why you get him. Seriously, Davis and Amaro in a two tight set is a nightmare for defenses.

Was New England wrong to draft another TE when they already had a good one? No.

We already have 2 good ones. Vance was 2nd rounder by everyone's estimations not just our FOs, even if he was essentially a slot receiver at Rice. We already have Celek and Carrier. We have 1 elite TE, 1 promising rookie, and 2 intriguing younger players.

New England took both of them in the same draft, they had nobody on offense so they doubled up on a position of NEED. Once again a bad example....

Your reference to Seattle is also not a quality example, we had McDonald, a 6'5 target that we didn't use in the RZ at all against Seattle. Jon Baldwin a 6'4 WR we didn't use at all against Seattle. Even if you make the argument that the players didn't distinguish themselves for opportunities it still begs the question, we have them -- why not use them?

In 2012, we even had an over the hill Randy Moss, who is the epitome of the ultimate deep threat and red zone threat in his career. Even if he was slow, why wouldn't we just draw up some 10 yard fades or seam routes that he could elevate and get the ball? Because it isn't in our scheme. Which is a terrible excuse for the coaches but it is what it is.

if we didn't use those 3 players in a typical RZ situation why would we use Amaro or any other 6'4+ target from this year? WE WOULDN'T!

Finally again, we don't have any semblance of a need at TE, so if they 9ers were truly going BPA they would take the next best player that they could make a case for seeing the field sometime this coming season, let alone the season after that like

WR (assuming Boldin is back we only have 3 WRs signed for 2014 and 2 for 2015).....

CB(3 but essentially 2 CBs w/ experience on the roster),

SS(starter is pending FA -- backup was terrible),

DT/NT(Justin is at the end stage of his career, Ray Mac may need more spells to stay effective, Ian Williams is coming back from a bad ankle injury and still somewhat unproven, TJE is somewhat unproven, Dorsey is only signed for 1 more year),

Center (if there is a 1st round center and we don't re-sign Goody we may opt to get someone with the pedigree rather than going with Kilgore/Looney),

OLB(Brooks is getting up there in age, Aldon has off field issues galor), but Lemonier showed immense potential to replace either of them.

Am I making a point yet. Because this is where I would finally say TE because Davis is 30 years old(2 weeks removed from his birthday) and only under contract for 2 more years, Vance is under contract for 3 years but unproven, and the other 2 are only on deals for 2014.

Finally one last thing about Amaro specifically.....he comes from Texas Tech a program that even after the Mike Leach Air Raid offense left town still barely runs the football so how long will it take Amaro to develop his blocking to be worthy of playing according to our coaches? Probably as long as McDonald which by accounts still needs improvement.
[ Edited by sfout on Feb 16, 2014 at 8:49 PM ]
Amaro isn't happening. We have No need for a TE. It would be a slap in the face to Vernon, who may restructure, and be extended this offseason, which isn't guaranteed, as Maiocco reported the team will try to stay away from restructures,

CB and WR are bigger needs IMO. CB being the biggest. I doubt Brown re-signs. I was told he was very unhappy with how his contract played out, with losing 2M. And he would test FA market. He will get plenty of calls, and may just price himself out of our price range.

Boldin IMO is a close signing, they are negotiating for a new multi year deal. Whitner I can see back.

But we can't sign everyone for 15M, then we need to sign our picks, then top 51 kicks off at beginning of september, meaning everyone counts against the cap. Not as easy as it seems. We had like 6M in cap room before september, and down to like 1M when season began, cause players 52-53, PUP, IR, NFI, and PS players also counted.
  • sfout
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Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Amaro isn't happening. We have No need for a TE. It would be a slap in the face to Vernon, who may restructure, and be extended this offseason, which isn't guaranteed, as Maiocco reported the team will try to stay away from restructures,

CB and WR are bigger needs IMO. CB being the biggest. I doubt Brown re-signs. I was told he was very unhappy with how his contract played out, with losing 2M. And he would test FA market. He will get plenty of calls, and may just price himself out of our price range.

Boldin IMO is a close signing, they are negotiating for a new multi year deal. Whitner I can see back.

But we can't sign everyone for 15M, then we need to sign our picks, then top 51 kicks off at beginning of september, meaning everyone counts against the cap. Not as easy as it seems. We had like 6M in cap room before september, and down to like 1M when season began, cause players 52-53, PUP, IR, NFI, and PS players also counted.

The all powerful AB thank you for your input with more specific knowledge that I could not/did not care enough to research or attempt to haphazardly explain.
Originally posted by sfout:
Why Amaro?

Vernon is our #1 TE for 2 more years at minimum, we just spent our 2nd on a TE this past season and have a quality 3rd TE in development. He isn't an H-Back like Walker.

I'll never understand people saying we should take Amaro, Seferian-Jenkins, or Ebron. Same with anybody talking about taking a DT in the first.

I can accept it if he is just BPA but trading up for a #2 or #3 TE in our scheme? Never gonna happen. If it comes to it we'll just trade back and build picks for 2015.

I agree. I think McDonald steps it up this year after focusing in blocking this past season. He was a great pass catcher in college and I see that re-emerging. I also would like to see what Carrier can do.
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Amaro isn't happening. We have No need for a TE. It would be a slap in the face to Vernon, who may restructure, and be extended this offseason, which isn't guaranteed, as Maiocco reported the team will try to stay away from restructures,

CB and WR are bigger needs IMO. CB being the biggest. I doubt Brown re-signs. I was told he was very unhappy with how his contract played out, with losing 2M. And he would test FA market. He will get plenty of calls, and may just price himself out of our price range.

Boldin IMO is a close signing, they are negotiating for a new multi year deal. Whitner I can see back.

But we can't sign everyone for 15M, then we need to sign our picks, then top 51 kicks off at beginning of september, meaning everyone counts against the cap. Not as easy as it seems. We had like 6M in cap room before september, and down to like 1M when season began, cause players 52-53, PUP, IR, NFI, and PS players also counted.

The all powerful AB thank you for your input with more specific knowledge that I could not/did not care enough to research or attempt to haphazardly explain.

No problem sfout. I don't envision a lot of redos, maybe a few guys, since we are all about not tying up money into the future that is not needed. But my hope is that Vernon and Willis get extensions soon.

Also don't think we keep Iupati, so LG is a possible target early on to develop, as some contracts out there are large, and Iupati won't get that from us. I rather lock up Boone, who can play LT and RT, where Iupati is only a Guard. Plus I can't see 4 of the 5 OL having huge deals. So someone will be let go. I hope it's iupati, so that means Crabs can be extended.
  • sfout
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Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Originally posted by sfout:
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Amaro isn't happening. We have No need for a TE. It would be a slap in the face to Vernon, who may restructure, and be extended this offseason, which isn't guaranteed, as Maiocco reported the team will try to stay away from restructures,

CB and WR are bigger needs IMO. CB being the biggest. I doubt Brown re-signs. I was told he was very unhappy with how his contract played out, with losing 2M. And he would test FA market. He will get plenty of calls, and may just price himself out of our price range.

Boldin IMO is a close signing, they are negotiating for a new multi year deal. Whitner I can see back.

But we can't sign everyone for 15M, then we need to sign our picks, then top 51 kicks off at beginning of september, meaning everyone counts against the cap. Not as easy as it seems. We had like 6M in cap room before september, and down to like 1M when season began, cause players 52-53, PUP, IR, NFI, and PS players also counted.

The all powerful AB thank you for your input with more specific knowledge that I could not/did not care enough to research or attempt to haphazardly explain.

No problem sfout. I don't envision a lot of redos, maybe a few guys, since we are all about not tying up money into the future that is not needed. But my hope is that Vernon and Willis get extensions soon.

Also don't think we keep Iupati, so LG is a possible target early on to develop, as some contracts out there are large, and Iupati won't get that from us. I rather lock up Boone, who can play LT and RT, where Iupati is only a Guard. Plus I can't see 4 of the 5 OL having huge deals. So someone will be let go. I hope it's iupati, so that means Crabs can be extended.

Agreed on Boone, until we find another swing tackle Boone is probably the most indispensable OL on the roster. Sure Staley is the LT but Boone can play 4 positions on the line if need be. Sucks but the writing is definitely on the wall for Iupati to be massively overvalued by the market.

From what I've read, the WR market may be flat like the CB market was last year. Hopefully that means he can lock up Crabtree once the 2014 top 51 cap comes into focus.