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Draft prospect CB/WR metrics

  • pfizz
  • Member
  • Posts: 171
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Matthews lacks any elite traits. Not sure if you've noticed, but the NFL is a league for physically dominant players. It's not all about college production, and sometimes, elite physical abilities (Aldon Smith, Calvin Johnson, Richard Sherman, JJ Watt, etc.) matter a lot.

yeah guys like jon baldwin with elite physical traits(6'4 230, 4.5 40, 1st round draft pick) always dominate.
[ Edited by pfizz on Feb 14, 2014 at 10:10 AM ]
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Benjamin as a tier 1 WR ....Matthews as a tier 1 WR ...I guess hardwork N proven urself yr after yr meanz nothin as long as ur 6'5 235 slow frankenstein lookin fool ...

Matthews lacks any elite traits. Not sure if you've noticed, but the NFL is a league for physically dominant players. It's not all about college production, and sometimes, elite physical abilities (Aldon Smith, Calvin Johnson, Richard Sherman, JJ Watt, etc.) matter a lot.

Will we disagree sir nothing new in this place lol maybe u will get ur Frankenstein N i'll get my proven guy. ..
BENJAMIN IS THE GUY… I say this not just cause of size or speed but mainly because of his physicality... watch his tape he is not a afraid of press coverage and loves to give a good block. He is not the best route runner but is big enough, fast enough and physical enough to go get deep balls that Kap loves to throw. Evans is a similar mold but better route runner but not as physical. Thats why I want Benjamin I hope the front office sees it this way too!
This is a nice breakdown and a good read but this is why the job of front office personel is so friggin hard. Even with all this there is still no way to know how guys translate to the NFL. The different schemes, different speed/strength and the mental part of the game or outside the game.

Would've loved to see the metrics on Jenkins. They were probably pretty good but he just didn't have what it took to get his head right and didn't pick up/fit with what the 49ers were doing on offense.
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Will we disagree sir nothing new in this place lol maybe u will get ur Frankenstein N i'll get my proven guy. ..

Did you not see the metrics? Proven at what exactly? The guy made nearly half his catches on bubble screens.

I actually like Matthews, but there's no way he's better than Benjamin. You're discounting Benjamin because he declared early?

- Benjamin had 30 for 495 as a freshman. Matthews had 15 for 181 as a freshman and could barely get on the field at a third-tier program like Vandy.

- As a sophomore, Benjamin had 54 for 1011 and 15 TDs. Matthews only had 7 TDs as a senior.

Benjamin played alongside 2 outstanding WRs this past season in one of the greatest college offenses of all time. If you put him on Vandy as the only option, his numbers would dwarf Matthews'.
And look at what they both did against Florida (Louchiez Purifoy, Marcus Roberson, and Vernon Hargreaves III--all of them NFL-caliber DBs).

Matthews put up 5 catches for 45 yards against them.

Benjamin had 9 catches for 212 yards and 3 TDs.
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Will we disagree sir nothing new in this place lol maybe u will get ur Frankenstein N i'll get my proven guy. ..

Did you not see the metrics? Proven at what exactly? The guy made nearly half his catches on bubble screens.

I actually like Matthews, but there's no way he's better than Benjamin. You're discounting Benjamin because he declared early?

- Benjamin had 30 for 495 as a freshman. Matthews had 15 for 181 as a freshman and could barely get on the field at a third-tier program like Vandy.

- As a sophomore, Benjamin had 54 for 1011 and 15 TDs. Matthews only had 7 TDs as a senior.

Benjamin played alongside 2 outstanding WRs this past season in one of the greatest college offenses of all time. If you put him on Vandy as the only option, his numbers would dwarf Matthews'.

If ur goin to throw statz up use all statz not just 2 yrz u forgot ..... J.Matthews 2012 94 catchz 1323 yardz N 8 TDz N 2013 112 catchz 1477 yardz N 7 TDz all that with sub par QBz thrownin to Matthews...only statz that benjamin has thatz worth anything is his TDz ...
Again u can have ur guy N I can have mine .. N i dont care if he came out early I discount Benjamin cause I think so many just look at his size N think he'll be tha next great WR ...
[ Edited by tatdwolf49 on Feb 14, 2014 at 2:53 PM ]
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
And look at what they both did against Florida (Louchiez Purifoy, Marcus Roberson, and Vernon Hargreaves III--all of them NFL-caliber DBs).

Matthews put up 5 catches for 45 yards against them.

Benjamin had 9 catches for 212 yards and 3 TDs.

All these stats are a nice compliment to film study but they do not prove that player A is better than player B. The stats in the OP do not account for all the variables in play and we cannot fault the player for how he was used within his respective teams offensive scheme. Nor does showing how player A fared vs team A vs how player B fared vs team A. Florida St is much more talent rich than Vandy, thus your aren't exactly comparing apples to apples.

We need to draft whoever best fits what we do and who best compliments what we have.
Originally posted by pfizz:
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Matthews lacks any elite traits. Not sure if you've noticed, but the NFL is a league for physically dominant players. It's not all about college production, and sometimes, elite physical abilities (Aldon Smith, Calvin Johnson, Richard Sherman, JJ Watt, etc.) matter a lot.

yeah guys like jon baldwin with elite physical traits(6'4 230, 4.5 40, 1st round draft pick) always dominate.

Really? A counter example? Come on, I can give you a counter-example to everything! Guys with great stats flop, with elite skills, who have everything except a fast 40, who have nothing except a fast 40, or guys who are elite across the board. They all have counter-examples that fail. Please, tell me, how is Kelvin Benjamin like Jon Baldwin? What about their traits stand out as similar? What flaws do they share?
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Will we disagree sir nothing new in this place lol maybe u will get ur Frankenstein N i'll get my proven guy. ..

Did you not see the metrics? Proven at what exactly? The guy made nearly half his catches on bubble screens.

I actually like Matthews, but there's no way he's better than Benjamin. You're discounting Benjamin because he declared early?

- Benjamin had 30 for 495 as a freshman. Matthews had 15 for 181 as a freshman and could barely get on the field at a third-tier program like Vandy.

- As a sophomore, Benjamin had 54 for 1011 and 15 TDs. Matthews only had 7 TDs as a senior.

Benjamin played alongside 2 outstanding WRs this past season in one of the greatest college offenses of all time. If you put him on Vandy as the only option, his numbers would dwarf Matthews'.

If ur goin to throw statz up use all statz not just 2 yrz u forgot ..... J.Matthews 2012 94 catchz 1323 yardz N 8 TDz N 2013 112 catchz 1477 yardz N 7 TDz all that with sub par QBz thrownin to Matthews...only statz that benjamin has thatz worth anything is his TDz ...
Again u can have ur guy N I can have mine .. N i dont care if he came out early I discount Benjamin cause I think so many just look at his size N think he'll be tha next great WR ...

It's not just his size, but size does help. He's got:

  • size
  • strength
  • ability to high point the ball
  • speed
  • college production
  • big catches in big moments in big games
  • ability to catch in stride
  • willingness and ability to win in the middle of the field
  • exceptional body control

Also, his size is unique. There's big, and there's unique. Iupati is big. Jonathan Ogden had unique size
Originally posted by pho_t_9er:
We can pick up multiple WRs good ones too, to get Benjamin you give up a 1st and 3rd to move up to 18-20 range we can also move up in the 2nd with a 2 and a 4 and get Cooks or even Matthews/Moncrief. We own this Draft and will get difference makers.

I like your thinking 2 wrs is what the 9ers will do in the draft...go 9ers.
I would be happy with Robinson and Moncrief combo.
  • DeUh
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,013
All those statistics show you how misleading they can be wothout the tapes. 2 examples.

Yes Fuller looks good with those numbers. But he also won´t play a full season for you with his injury history. Those were not some crazy accidents like Lattimore but injurys that can happen on every single play.

And look at Matthews statistics.
What you dont know when looking at them is that screens are not the best part of his game and so his numbers arent that great at that point. What they dont show is that he can run every route from every position there is for you. And is good doing so.
In fact he was so dominant that defenses tried everything to shut him down. Double coverage. Triple coverage. You name it. So the offense coordinators had to be creative and tried everything to get the ball in his hands, see screens. And with all that plus bad QB play and as the only real reciever threat defenses still coudn´t stop him.
For his "lack" of any elite traits. 6-3 209 wingspan 80 1/8.

Definitely interesting to read. But without the tapes nonsense.
I would like to see how Davante Adams grades out
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,475
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
Will we disagree sir nothing new in this place lol maybe u will get ur Frankenstein N i'll get my proven guy. ..

Benjamin played alongside 2 outstanding WRs this past season in one of the greatest college offenses of all time. If you put him on Vandy as the only option, his numbers would dwarf Matthews'.

Or not.

If Benjamin played for Vanderbilt, and he did not, he would have drawn more attention than he did at FSU. He might have been done as well.

What is the metric that is used to measure work ethic?

I just happen to think that work ethic is a major trait, if not the major, trait of good NFL players.

There is no question that Matthews has the requisite work ethic.

I do not know if the same can be said for Benjamin. I am not saying Benjamin does not have a good work ethic.

I just do not know.

Jerry Rice was great because of his work ethic.

I will argue that Calvin Johnson is great because of his work ethic.