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Do You Trust the 49ers brass to draft a WR

  • MarkD
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,035
I trust Balke but I think the scouting department needs to be second guessed at this point. One thing that I want to point out is receivers are drafted by the type of system you run as well. Other than this last years draft, our receivers were drafted for a run first offense with Alex Smith as qb. In fact the majority of the team was drafted with that in mind. Now that we have a quarter back with a stronger arm to throw down field more emphasis will be put on drafting a receiver that can get down field to catch versus just being a big bodied blocker in the run game.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Travisty13:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
One bad WR pick (Jenkins) doesn't constitute inability/ineptitude in this area. Plus, nobody with a shred of objectivity will factor in 6th round WRs (Williams and Johnson) when discussing Baalke's ability to pick for this position. Since 2000, there's really only a handful of 6th round WRs that have done anything in the league. Only one was/is really productive (Garcon) with the other "notables" having made/making minor contributions.

The vast majority of 6th round WRs taken since 2000 look for gainful employment elsewhere shortly after being drafted.

2000 - NA
2001 - NA
2002 - NA
2003 - Arnez Battle, David Tyree
2004 - NA
2005 - NA
2006 - NA
2007 - NA
2008 - Pierre Garcon, Josh Morgan
2009 - Brandon Gibson
2010 - Antonio Brown
2011 - Dwayne Harris, Aldrick Robinson
2012 - NA/too early
2013 - Too early

Point being, AJJ is the only legit crappy WR pick by this current regime has made.

You're selling Antonio Brown very short. 2 1,000 yard seasons, another with close to 800 (not a full healthy season either) in 4 years. And Brown's had more thousand yards seasons (2 Brown; 1 Garcon) and only 10 less TDs in less time than Garcon. Brown is a far better WR than Pierre in my opinion. And a guy I think the Niners should draft, Brandin Cooks, reminds me alot of Brown.

Makes sense, though it doesn't change the basic premise of my post...essentially 2 WRs (Brown and Garcon) in the last 13 years drafted in the 6th round have produced. The overwhelming majority did either nothing or very little in the league so factoring our 2 failed picks (Williams and Johnson) in when asking the question "do we trust the 49ers to draft a WR" was kinda silly.
Oh I absolutely agree with you. People mad at Baalke for not being able to draft a stud WR in the 6th is asinine. My post was more, just letting people know that Brown is an exception, and not the rule. As is Garcon. Yeah we missed on Jenkins in the 1st, but I think, that Baalke was going for a speedster, to add a different dynamic to our offense (much like LaMike in the 2nd).
In 30 years the niners have drafted five or six really good WRs...that's not much to hang your hat on! Rice, Taylor, TO, Crabtree...and perhaps a couple of other lesser guys. So I trust the niners brain trust to do the job...because they have to. Unless you want to farm out the draft to the Raiders Brain trust?
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,048
Originally posted by MarkD:
I trust Balke but I think the scouting department needs to be second guessed at this point. One thing that I want to point out is receivers are drafted by the type of system you run as well. Other than this last years draft, our receivers were drafted for a run first offense with Alex Smith as qb. In fact the majority of the team was drafted with that in mind. Now that we have a quarter back with a stronger arm to throw down field more emphasis will be put on drafting a receiver that can get down field to catch versus just being a big bodied blocker in the run game.

Maybe, I misunderstood what you are saying, but Baalke has not drafted big bodied receivers.

Here are the wide receivers drafted by Baalke.

2010--Kyle Williams, 5-10, 188
2011—Ronald Johnson—5-11, 199
2012--A.J. Jenkins, 6-0, 192
2013--Quinton Patton, 6-0, 204
Baalke doesn't like DBs taller than he is! LOL! He did trade for Baldwin though...
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 11,048
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Baalke doesn't like DBs taller than he is! LOL! He did trade for Baldwin though...

You meant Wide Receivers, didn't you.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Baalke doesn't like DBs taller than he is! LOL! He did trade for Baldwin though...

You meant Wide Receivers, didn't you.

Yes...but it could apply to any position! LOL! The team has one player above average in height. Some guys allow their complexes to skew their decision making!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Yes...but it could apply to any position! LOL! The team has one player above average in height. Some guys allow their complexes to skew their decision making!

Kaepernick, Iupati, Boone, and Aldon Smith. Boone is the only one who is well above average, but Eric Reid may technically be above average at 6'1 and Carlos Rogers at 6'0. The only starter they have that is pretty short is Whitner, but Brown and Dorsey are on the smaller side as well.

I definitely wouldn't call the 49ers a short team - they seem about average and Baalke likes arm length, so the team may have above average length.
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Yes...but it could apply to any position! LOL! The team has one player above average in height. Some guys allow their complexes to skew their decision making!

Kaepernick, Iupati, Boone, and Aldon Smith. Boone is the only one who is well above average, but Eric Reid may technically be above average at 6'1 and Carlos Rogers at 6'0. The only starter they have that is pretty short is Whitner, but Brown and Dorsey are on the smaller side as well.

I definitely wouldn't call the 49ers a short team - they seem about average and Baalke likes arm length, so the team may have above average length.

Boone is the only player above the average range...the rest you listed are within normal height. For instance, there are 29 QBs taller than Kaepernick, most OGs are between 6'2" and 6'5," OLBs between 6'1" and 6"4." Each of the players you site are within that range. Reid is 6'1" which is right at the top of average for FSs (5'11-6'1").

Boone is above average as a 6'8" OG.

http://imgur.com/FBFKSdB
I trust that they will draft a wr. DO NOT trust their judgement in picking a prospect or ability to develope the rookie
Originally posted by wailers15:
That is the question my friends...I see alot of talk on here about drafting a WR. I think it's an option to explore given our lack of depth & future at this position. But man history is against us.

How come we can never draft good WR's. I can only think of Crabtree as of late. Yes Patton has shown some flashes and I think this yr was a wash for him given his stint on the injury side. I think he has potential, but not starting potential. He is a perfect slot type WR. I think next yr is when we will really be able to get a good read on him.

In all seriousness I have little to no faith in our Brass drafting a WR.

Sammy Watkins would be sweet or the Kid from Fresno St. Not sure about Robinson from Penn St.

It would be pretty arrogant of me to think I can draft better than the 49ers. I haven't seen 95% of these WR's play. Watching a game or two and highlights, does not provide enough information to make a through assessment. The scouts have gave film and team and personal interviews to go by. There are other factors to consider as well:

1.) Character/Attitude
2.) Injury History
3.) Practice Habits
4.) X-factors that made a player under perform/made them a diamond in the rough/get overlooked or come eat earlier than expected.

For Example: I think Martavius Bryant could be a diamond in the rough having played in the shadow of Sammy Watkins as well as Donte Moncreif who played on a stacked WR corps.
Originally posted by buck:
Maybe, I misunderstood what you are saying, but Baalke has not drafted big bodied receivers.

Here are the wide receivers drafted by Baalke.

2010--Kyle Williams, 5-10, 188
2011—Ronald Johnson—5-11, 199
2012--A.J. Jenkins, 6-0, 192
2013--Quinton Patton, 6-0, 204

In all fairness, they have tried to pair the big-bodied Michael Crabtree with a speedster, and they also signed Big Bodied Bryalon Edwards and Mario Manningham in Free Agency in recent years.

Basically they drafted according to need at the WR spot: A deep threat w/speed.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Boone is the only player above the average range...the rest you listed are within normal height. For instance, there are 29 QBs taller than Kaepernick, most OGs are between 6'2" and 6'5," OLBs between 6'1" and 6"4." Each of the players you site are within that range. Reid is 6'1" which is right at the top of average for FSs (5'11-6'1").

Boone is above average as a 6'8" OG.

http://imgur.com/FBFKSdB

That's a pretty specific definition of above average. I would argue that players at the upper limit of normal height are above average height.

This was the average height and weight for each position in 2013 (it would've been nice if LB's were split up into 3-4 ILB, 3-4 OLB, 4-3 OLB, and 4-3 MLB, but this is a decent guide for other positions. Iupati is 6'5 which is in the range of normal heights for guards, but it's still above average. I wouldn't say you need to be in the 80th or 90th percentile in height at your position to be "above average", but that's just me.

Safeties 6'0" 207.6
Linebackers 6'2" 246.3
Defensive Tackles 6'3" 309.8
Defensive Ends 6'4" 283.1
Cornerbacks 5'11" 193.4
Centers 6'3" 306.2
Tight Ends 6'4" 254.7
Running Backs 5'11" 215.3
Guards 6'4" 314.5
Quarterbacks 6'3" 223.8
Wide Receivers 6'1" 202.6
Offensive Tackles 6'5" 313.5
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Boone is the only player above the average range...the rest you listed are within normal height. For instance, there are 29 QBs taller than Kaepernick, most OGs are between 6'2" and 6'5," OLBs between 6'1" and 6"4." Each of the players you site are within that range. Reid is 6'1" which is right at the top of average for FSs (5'11-6'1").

Boone is above average as a 6'8" OG.

http://imgur.com/FBFKSdB

That's a pretty specific definition of above average. I would argue that players at the upper limit of normal height are above average height.

This was the average height and weight for each position in 2013 (it would've been nice if LB's were split up into 3-4 ILB, 3-4 OLB, 4-3 OLB, and 4-3 MLB, but this is a decent guide for other positions. Iupati is 6'5 which is in the range of normal heights for guards, but it's still above average. I wouldn't say you need to be in the 80th or 90th percentile in height at your position to be "above average", but that's just me.

Safeties 6'0" 207.6
Linebackers 6'2" 246.3
Defensive Tackles 6'3" 309.8
Defensive Ends 6'4" 283.1
Cornerbacks 5'11" 193.4
Centers 6'3" 306.2
Tight Ends 6'4" 254.7
Running Backs 5'11" 215.3
Guards 6'4" 314.5
Quarterbacks 6'3" 223.8
Wide Receivers 6'1" 202.6
Offensive Tackles 6'5" 313.5

If you have 29 guys taller than your player it seems odd to call him above average. But you are using a single number so 49% of all players would be above average and 49% would be below average. I used a range of height representing the majority of players and then the outlier...Boone.

But my original posts with Buck were good humored and not meant to be argumentative.
  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 586
Lets not forget that in the 1979 draft Bill Walsh picked WR James Owens with the first pick of the 2nd round, which was #29 overall back then. Owens played 3 nondescript years with the 49ers before moving on. Granted he picked Montana in the 3rd round and Dwight Clark in the 10th round but he did swing and miss on his first early WR pick. In fact Walsh really only hit on 3 WRs from 1979 thru 1988. They were Clark, Rice and Taylor but he missed on WRs too. It happens.